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quade

Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

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quade

***I think if the government wants to bring charges against you they should also have to provide your defense attournies.



That's some kinda logic you got going on there and I don't mean that in a good way.

Bundy and his clan don't trust the government and thinks they're incompetent; except you're saying he should trust the government to competently defend him in a case in which he's clearly 100% guilty.

Bundy is going to go to jail on this regardless of who defends him. He's going to lose his farm and whatever fortune he may have amassed over the years. On those grounds, perhaps he can claim he can not afford an attorney, but he could only make that claim in the future, not before he's actually found guilty.

In this case against Bundy I can see how you would not grasp my thinking. And that is where it can be tricky.
There are cases where the DA has no case but they want to prosecute, so they charge with something big. That they can draw out with continuonces and postponments and 2 or 3 years later when you are broke have sold all you can sell. Offer you a plea bargain knowing they don't even have a case for that.
That is what I am talking about. And it happens often. It is a very well and often played tactic. Now if you are rich it might not be that big of an obstical. But if you are of moderate wealth it can ruin you financially. Evan when you are found innocent 5 years down the line. The DA just says sorry if you Evan hear that from them.
Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

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kallend

While I am no Bundy fan. I think his reuest should be standard.. If the state or Feds are bringing charges against you, I would think they are the ones with the deep pockets.
If I was charged now I would not be granted a public defender, but I also would not be able to afford a lawyer for anything more then a simple one or two apperance case. And that would be pushing it.
I think if the government wants to bring charges against you they should also have to provide your defense attournies.

Some people wouldn't recognize hypocrisy if it stood on its hind legs and bit them on the nose.

And some people have to just continue to be assholes.
Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

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billvon

>I think if the government wants to bring charges against you they should also
>have to provide your defense attournies.

So if the government accused you of something you claimed you didn't do - you would really want the government representing you as well?

Odd.

"Your honor, my client is clearly guilty on all counts."
"WHAT? No I'm not!"
"(pipe down, this isn't costing you a dime.)"



If that is such a stretch to you, why do we have public defenders now. Are they there just to prove the state's case?
Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

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>If that is such a stretch to you, why do we have public defenders now.

Because some people can't afford attorneys - and they are better than nothing. If you looked up some of the travesties of justice* that have been allowed by public defenders, I suspect you would change your mind about how much you wanted one to represent you in a case like that.

(* - the majority of public defenders try to do a good job. But even the ones who work at it are generally hopelessly overloaded, and generally do less than the best possible job because of that.)

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billvon

>If that is such a stretch to you, why do we have public defenders now.

Because some people can't afford attorneys - and they are better than nothing. If you looked up some of the travesties of justice* that have been allowed by public defenders, I suspect you would change your mind about how much you wanted one to represent you in a case like that.

(* - the majority of public defenders try to do a good job. But even the ones who work at it are generally hopelessly overloaded, and generally do less than the best possible job because of that.)



Well that is different then them just going up and telling the judge there client is clearly guilty, isn't it?
Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

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BartsDaddy

***>If that is such a stretch to you, why do we have public defenders now.

Because some people can't afford attorneys - and they are better than nothing. If you looked up some of the travesties of justice* that have been allowed by public defenders, I suspect you would change your mind about how much you wanted one to represent you in a case like that.

(* - the majority of public defenders try to do a good job. But even the ones who work at it are generally hopelessly overloaded, and generally do less than the best possible job because of that.)



Well that is different then them just going up and telling the judge there client is clearly guilty, isn't it?as high profile a case as this is - I don't see it the same as a guy that got busted for peeing in public.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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I don't either, Turtle.
I don't think my thoughts espoused have anything exclusive, or how you look at it even pertaining to this case. It is just something that buys me about our system. The government can railroad you into the poor house and you have no control over it. And it does happen.
Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

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BartsDaddy

I don't either, Turtle.
I don't think my thoughts espoused have anything exclusive, or how you look at it even pertaining to this case. It is just something that buys me about our system. The government can railroad you into the poor house and you have no control over it. And it does happen.



Counsel should be weary, if he's convicted, he may scream foul play. That could be a motivator for him wanting a PD.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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Cliven Bundy denied bail: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/16/cliven-bundy-denied-bail-portland-oregon-nevada-militia-standoff

Fark: "The government finally allows Cliven Bundy to live rent free on federal land. Mission accomplished.":D

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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Well, actions have consequences.

And in much of the world, when you take up arms and defy the government, you end up standing in front of a wall being asked if you want a blindfold and last cigarette.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Some entertaining reading of reading of what Shawna Cox filed with the court: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/17/1486742/-Oregon-standoff-defendant-Shawna-Cox-files-eight-pages-of-sovereign-citizen-psychobabble-with-court
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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So he was in Nevada until he went to Oregon, where he was promptly arrested. And now that Oregon has him in custody Nevada suddenly want him back, even though they didn't arrest him the whole time he was there?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Hi jakee,

Quote

even though they didn't arrest him the whole time he was there?



They did not want an armed confrontation.

The knew that he could board the airplane with any weapons. When he stepped from the airplane, the feds took him into custody without incident.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Oregon is only housing him in the local jail for the feds; a common procedure.

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SStewart

Lavoys not dead, he was never even there. My favorite crackpot theory. This story was during the siege, but clearly it proves he was in southern Utah and not Oregon doing all those press meetings.

Ha!

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/14/fbi-to-malheur-militia-youre-free-to-travel/



Well, he was in southern Utah. That was one of the truly bizarre things about this whole situation.

The 'occupiers' were allowed to come and go as they pleased.

Admittedly, that gave the cops a really easy way to capture the leaders.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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normiss

Given how much government teat he sucks, I would have expected public defenders.



Maybe I'm confusing one Bundy wacko for another, but didn't he ask for a public defender earlier on?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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