Saudis ring in the New Year with a bloodbath!

[gowlerk 1,903]

http://time.com/4165445/saudi-arabia-executions-shiite-cleric/?xid=homepage

I'm trying to get this straight. There seems to be two kinds of Sand People over there. The Sunny ones, and the Shitty ones. They are both stuck in the 6th century, but slightly different years of it.

The Sunny ones are jealous because their name sounds happier than the Shitty one. So to make up for it they act as shitty as they possibly can toward the Shitty's.

Meanwhile the Shitty ones are jealous because the Sunny ones have all the money, oil, and power. So they go all out to prove that NO ONE is ever going to be shittier than the Shittys.

From out of this mess, the Western World picks favourites based on how well the Kings can keep a lid on all the shit flying around, and tries to keep the shittyness contained in the Sand World by selling weapons to and when needed sending troops to them.

But we let our guard down a few years ago and partially embraced a "Sand People Spring" that some of us fooled ourselves into believing could end some of the shittyness. Which ended up bring all kinds shitty Sunnys and shitty Shittys to Brussels where they launched a shit storm upon Paris.

What am I missing? I'm sure there's plenty to add.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,621]

The Western Democracies *should* *not* *get* *involved*.

Messing in other peoples' internal squabbles never has a good outcome.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,381]

That sums it up pretty well.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 3]

kallend

The Western Democracies *should* *not* *get* *involved*.

Messing in other peoples' internal squabbles never has a good outcome.

To that point, the entire reason; AQ, ISIS want to kill Americans is because we prop up KSA.

Fuck KSA.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

kallend

The Western Democracies *should* *not* *get* *involved*.

Messing in other peoples' internal squabbles never has a good outcome.

To late. If Obama had a son that was Muslim, he would be Shia... I'm mean Shitty.... I mean, well, what ever....

Either way, the Muslim world thinks he has picked a side. Part of the reason it's in flames.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Darius11 12]

i am sorry but can i post threads where i refer to people as niggers and spics and its ok now??

seriously i know all principles tend to go out the window when it comes to Muslims but it would be nice to have some FUCKING consistency, but no a mod post to the same shit without even beating an eye lash.

Sand people!!! you guys are all class. Can you try to simplify it even more i am afraid you might get a head ache for all that thinking....................

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[quade 3]

Darius11

...but no a mod post to the same shit without even beating an eye lash.

You might want to re-read what I wrote. I wrote nothing about Muslims. I said, and I quote, "Fuck KSA."

I have no issue with Muslims. I have HUGE issues with "monarchs" who use religion to control their empires by killing people and denying rights to entire swaths of their subjects people who just happened to lose the birth geography lottery.

I would think the same thing about any "King" who did the same bullshit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,381]

Protesters attacking the embassy in Tehran;
This is not a repeat from 1979.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/iranian-protesters-attack-saudi-embassy-after-prominent-shiite-cleric-executed_568848d2e4b014efe0daace7

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Phil1111 908]

quade

***...but no a mod post to the same shit without even beating an eye lash.

You might want to re-read what I wrote. I wrote nothing about Muslims. I said, and I quote, "Fuck KSA."

I have no issue with Muslims. I have HUGE issues with "monarchs" who use religion to control their empires by killing people and denying rights to entire swaths of their subjects people who just happened to lose the birth geography lottery.

I would think the same thing about any "King" who did the same bullshit.

What about a Shia king, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei who set up a puppet government to cover the last set of rigged elections where only those endorsed by Khamenei could run? Who kills three times the number of opposition members per year ( http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/death-sentences-and-executions-2014 ).

I don't have any warm and fuzzy feelings for the KSA but the Iranian theocracy http://martinarcher.typepad.com/martin_archer/2009/06/iranian-theocracy.html is just as bad.

The big issue with these two regimes is that they are prepared to bring the whole region to war to serve their respective views on Mohammad's ideology. To protect each respective ruling governments. Both are currently fighting two separate proxy wars, in Syria and in Yemen. With the KSA having ground troops directly involved in Yemen. With Iranian forces directly fighting in both Syria and Iraq.

[Coreeece 2]

Darius11

Sand people!!! you guys are all class. Can you try to simplify it even more i am afraid you might get a head ache for all that thinking....................

It's ok because he's speaking about the majority in Saudi Arabia.

Now, if he referred to American Muslims/Arabs as sand people, then that wouldn't be PC - they are the minority.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[ryoder 1,381]

Phil1111

What about a Shia king, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei who set up a puppet government to cover the last set of rigged elections where only those endorsed by Khamenei could run? Who kills three times the number of opposition members per year ( http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/death-sentences-and-executions-2014 ).

I don't have any warm and fuzzy feelings for the KSA but the Iranian theocracy http://martinarcher.typepad.com/martin_archer/2009/06/iranian-theocracy.html is just as bad.

The big issue with these two regimes is that they are prepared to bring the whole region to war to serve their respective views on Mohammad's ideology. To protect each respective ruling governments. Both are currently fighting two separate proxy wars, in Syria and in Yemen. With the KSA having ground troops directly involved in Yemen. With Iranian forces directly fighting in both Syria and Iraq.

It is useful to understand what the Iranian government really is:
A strange blend of attributes of a republic and an oligarchy/theocracy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8051750.stm

The two most interesting parts are:

- The Guardian Council: Half of which are appointed by an elected parliament, and half appointed by the unelected theocrats, i.e. it is like a republic and a theocracy sharing power.

- Assembly of experts: An elected group which appoints the Supreme Leader of the theocratic side of the government. i.e. the republic has some control over the theocrats.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 3]

Asked and answered, sir.

Quote

I would think the same thing about any "King" who did the same bullshit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 212]

Darius11

i am sorry but can i post threads where i refer to people as niggers and spics and its ok now??

seriously i know all principles tend to go out the window when it comes to Muslims but it would be nice to have some FUCKING consistency, but no a mod post to the same shit without even beating an eye lash.

Sand people!!! you guys are all class. Can you try to simplify it even more i am afraid you might get a head ache for all that thinking....................

Consistency in which lives matter, and when, is not really the strongest point for the hypocritical left.

I was wondering what the difference between "sand people" and "sand niggers" was while I was reading this.

Perhaps we can simply change the language to read "towel heads".

Certainly "goat fuckers" should be allowed.

You know how PC the crowd is here.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Phil1111 908]

ryoder

***

What about a Shia king, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei who set up a puppet government to cover the last set of rigged elections where only those endorsed by Khamenei could run? Who kills three times the number of opposition members per year ( http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/death-sentences-and-executions-2014 ).

I don't have any warm and fuzzy feelings for the KSA but the Iranian theocracy http://martinarcher.typepad.com/martin_archer/2009/06/iranian-theocracy.html is just as bad.

The big issue with these two regimes is that they are prepared to bring the whole region to war to serve their respective views on Mohammad's ideology. To protect each respective ruling governments. Both are currently fighting two separate proxy wars, in Syria and in Yemen. With the KSA having ground troops directly involved in Yemen. With Iranian forces directly fighting in both Syria and Iraq.

It is useful to understand what the Iranian government really is:
A strange blend of attributes of a republic and an oligarchy/theocracy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8051750.stm

The two most interesting parts are:

- The Guardian Council: Half of which are appointed by an elected parliament, and half appointed by the unelected theocrats, i.e. it is like a republic and a theocracy sharing power.

- Assembly of experts: An elected group which appoints the Supreme Leader of the theocratic side of the government. i.e. the republic has some control over the theocrats.

Or more accurately:

" Sham in Iran

Today's topic: Was the Iran presidential election truly fraudulent, or is there any way incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could have won by a 2-1 margin?

Why would the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, show his hand like this?Point: Matthew Duss

I think there are two ways to look at the first part of the question. In the sense that all candidates for president in Iran must be vetted by the Guardian Council -- a group of unelected clerics that rejected hundreds of applicants -- then clearly yes, the elections were fraudulent and would not nearly meet the standard of openness that we enjoy in the United States. This is not to say that "democracy" does not occur in some respects in Iran, or that the peoples' voices are not heard. It does, and they are, albeit in a relatively narrow space.

But even recognizing the tight constraints within which democracy exists in Iran, it's hard to take seriously the idea that controversial incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could get 63% of the Iranian vote, taking 24.5 million votes to leading challenger Mir-Hossein Mousavi's 13.2 million. We can, of course, not know for sure, but we can take note of a few things that give off a distinct whiff of shenanigans.

The first is that Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who had previously made very clear that he supported Ahmadinejad's reelection, appeared on television to hail the incumbent's victory soon after polls had closed. As Middle East scholar Juan Cole pointed out, "the Electoral Commission is supposed to wait three days before certifying the results of the election, at which point they are to inform Khamenei of the results, and he signs off on the process. ... In this case, Khamenei immediately approved the alleged results."

As BBC Iranian affairs analyst Sadeq Saba noted, in past elections, as votes were counted, the results were announced province by province. In this election, "the results came in blocks of millions of votes -- in percentages of the vote," with little variance in the vote distribution. Saba noted that this suggested that Ahmadinejad did equally well in rural and urban areas; the voluble populist has consistently enjoyed far greater support in rural areas than in cities (though there was recent evidence that even his rural support was waning).

Another puzzle is that Mousavi, an ethnic Azeri Turk, was beaten by Ahmadinejad in Mousavi's home province of Azerbaijan. As Karim Sadjadpour of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace put it, , "This is the equivalent of Barack Obama losing the African American vote to John McCain in 2008."

As to the second part of the question, there is a way that Ahmadinejad could have won by a 2-1 margin: If reformers had stayed home and didn't vote. That didn't happen. There was record turnout, which the supreme leader himself recognized in his televised address as "a real feast."

The more interesting question to me, then, is why. Why would Khamenei, who has until now been more subtle and meticulous in exercising his control over the Iranian government, show his hand like this? Popular consent has played a small yet significant part in maintaining the legitimacy of the Iranian system, so why have Khamenei and his cohorts apparently decided to dispense with it now?

Matthew Duss is a national security researcher and writer at the Center for American Progress.

Khamenei couldn't tolerate another pro-reform president. Counterpoint: Michael Rubin

There is no such thing as a free election in the Islamic Republic. The religious regime seeks the legitimacy of democracy but not the idea of subordinating leadership to popular will. The supreme leader and the Guardian Council carefully monitor campaigns and massage the process. This year, as you mention, Matt, the Guardian Council eliminated more than 99% of the candidates who sought to run for president. It is easy to falsify the results at any stage: The Iranian government forbids independent monitoring. In the 2005 election, Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf, who led exit polling, claimed fraud after he went to sleep in first place and woke up in third.

You imply that Western analysts underestimate incumbent Ahmadinejad, and I agree. Western journalists and academics hang out in the bookstores around Tehran University and the cafes of northern Tehran where Iranians embrace the reformist tendencies voiced by Mousavi. But, in the projects of western Tehran and the slums of the south, Ahmadinejad's demagoguery is attractive. Many Iranians resent both the fabulous wealth accumulated by the Islamic Republic's elite and their nepotism. This is why, in the last days of the campaign, Ahmadinejad made former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani (perhaps the richest man in Iran) and his extended family the target of his attacks. Iranians juxtapose Rafsanjani's luxuries with Ahmadinejad's ascetic lifestyle. Finally, while the campaign officially was just three weeks long, Ahmadinejad campaigned for four years, spending more time in provincial towns and villages than any of his predecessors.

That said, the numbers don't pass the smell test. The Interior Ministry reported turnout greater than 99% in some provinces. While such numbers are unlikely, both consensus inside Iran and anecdotal accounts from election day suggest that high turnout would benefit Mousavi. As you said, Matt, it seems strange that Ahmadinejad would beat Mousavi in east Azerbaijan (even though Mousavi squeaked by in west Azerbaijan). Or that Ahmadinejad would win former President Mohammad Khatami's home province of Yazd after Khatami campaigned so heavily for the challenger.

Matt, you put your finger on the right question: Why would Supreme Leader Khamenei show his hand like this? Let me take a crack at that.

Remember, in the Islamic Republic, sovereignty comes from God; it doesn't matter what the majority of people think. Khamenei became supreme leader after Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's death in 1989. Khamenei was a compromise candidate. He didn't have Khomeini's charisma or religious credentials. Khamenei ruled by balancing factions. Whenever any politician would get too powerful, Khamenei would cut that person down to size. It hasn't always worked. In 1997, reformer Khatami won a surprise victory against the supreme leader's favorite candidate. Khamenei later regretted letting the results stand after Khatami unleashed passions that threatened regime stability. Indeed, next month marks the 10th anniversary of the student uprising in 1999, which I witnessed firsthand in Iran. When the Guardian Council approved the soft-spoken Mousavi's candidacy, no one expected his message to resonate. But when it caught on, Khamenei decided to nip the problem in the bud. The next couple days will show whether he was successful.

Michael Rubin is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and a senior lecturer at the Naval Postgraduate School."
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-oew-duss-rubin17-2009jun17-story.html

IMO politics is almost always a dirty corrupt business. The corruption of which is only brought to light by free, fair elections, an independent judiciary, and active inquisitive journalists. None of which is in abundance in most of the Arab world.

Of course sympathies should be shown to the average Iranian citizen, the average Saudi citizen, who hold little sway in the directions of their countries.

[CygnusX-1 42]

Quote

I was wondering what the difference between "sand people" and "sand niggers" was while I was reading this.

"Sand people" are Tusken Raiders and live on the planet Tatooine.

"Sand niggers" are people from Casino (or was it Good Fellas) - either way a Joe Pesci reference.

Thanks for playing movie trivia.