brenthutch 436 #26 December 15, 2015 billvon>If a simple law will have no impact on gun violence, we should continue not violating people's rights. So, following that concept, if a simple law will have a significant impact on gun violence, and will not significantly violate people's rights, we should pursue it - even if it does not solve the problem 100%. What about if does NOTHING to solve the problem? Works for guns and carbon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,248 #27 December 15, 2015 cvfd1399 ***So what's your point? Is this like the argument, if we can't reduce gun violence to zero within 1 week with a simple law, we should just continue selling military grade weaponry to everybody? What?! Do you think we all have fully auto m-16, mp5, and Abrams tanks over here? Lemmee know if you need help in acquiring any of the items on your list. Full Auto M16 ~$2,500 with tax stamp MP-5 (Depends on if you want the 91 (.308) with full suppressor and full auto - ~$4,000 with both tax stamps. Abrams - Starting at $2.5 Million up to $7.5 Million (age, condition & location are price factors). Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #28 December 15, 2015 BIGUN ******So what's your point? Is this like the argument, if we can't reduce gun violence to zero within 1 week with a simple law, we should just continue selling military grade weaponry to everybody? What?! Do you think we all have fully auto m-16, mp5, and Abrams tanks over here? Lemmee know if you need help in acquiring any of the items on your list. Full Auto M16 ~$2,500 with tax stamp MP-5 (Depends on if you want the 91 (.308) with full suppressor and full auto - ~$4,000 with both tax stamps. Abrams - Starting at $2.5 Million up to $7.5 Million (age, condition & location are price factors). Mp-10 . . . Full suppressor and folding spring stock please.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,925 #29 December 15, 2015 >What about if does NOTHING to solve the problem? Works for guns and carbon Most of the world disagrees with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,248 #30 December 15, 2015 http://www.armslist.com/posts/4508387/asheville-north-carolina-rifles-for-sale--m-p10--308---smith---wesson Suppressor - Add $500.00 + $500.00 for tax stampNobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #31 December 15, 2015 BIGUNhttp://www.armslist.com/posts/4508387/asheville-north-carolina-rifles-for-sale--m-p10--308---smith---wesson Suppressor - Add $500.00 + $500.00 for tax stamp (Shaking) Oh, my, noooooo, never mind. I took one look at it and now I'm scared. I think I need a vegan salad, with tofu, and a life coach.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,248 #32 December 15, 2015 Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,421 #33 December 15, 2015 turtlespeed***http://www.armslist.com/posts/4508387/asheville-north-carolina-rifles-for-sale--m-p10--308---smith---wesson Suppressor - Add $500.00 + $500.00 for tax stamp (Shaking) Oh, my, noooooo, never mind. I took one look at it and now I'm scared. I think I need a vegan salad, with tofu, and a life coach. Ted Bundy became a vegetarian later in life. You will be in good company then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #34 December 15, 2015 SkyDekker******http://www.armslist.com/posts/4508387/asheville-north-carolina-rifles-for-sale--m-p10--308---smith---wesson Suppressor - Add $500.00 + $500.00 for tax stamp (Shaking) Oh, my, noooooo, never mind. I took one look at it and now I'm scared. I think I need a vegan salad, with tofu, and a life coach. Ted Bundy became a vegetarian later in life. You will be in good company then. Isn't he dead?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 436 #35 December 15, 2015 billvon>What about if does NOTHING to solve the problem? Works for guns and carbon Most of the world disagrees with you. Most of the world believes in creationism. I didn't know that science was a democratic institution. What is your point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #36 December 16, 2015 brenthutchWhat about if does NOTHING to solve the problem? Your own OP implies it could dent the problem by 35%. The word NOTHING means zero. Why do you equate 0% to 35%? Here's a scenario that might be more to your liking. You and some friends are in the mall surrounded by 1000 innocent people, when all of a sudden a large group of gun-wielding terrorists storms in and starts attacking the innocents. You and your friends (who are also gun-wielding) have the time somehow to stop and think about your odds. You realize that you can probably kill all the terrorists, but not before they kill 65% of the mallrats. One of your friends says, "well, at least we can still save 35% of them, let's go for it!" Would you laugh at him and tell him that he was suggesting doing "NOTHING"? On the actual topic at hand, it's important to remember that developing nations usually follow industrialized ones. If the industrialized ones do reach zero emissions or something close to it, it's not unreasonable to expect that someday the developing ones will get there too. Even if they don't, it's still the right thing to do.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,925 #37 December 16, 2015 >Most of the world believes in creationism. No, actually, they don't. Even in the US, belief in creationism is below 50% - it hovers around 45%, and that is quite high compared to the rest of the world. But in any case, "other people believe stupid things, so the stupid thing I believe is validated" is among the worst arguments out there. >What is your point. That no credible scientist - indeed, very few people, period - believe that gun laws and emissions laws do nothing to solve the problems of gun violence and AGW emissions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 436 #38 December 16, 2015 I didn't, Secretary of State John Kerry did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #39 December 16, 2015 brenthutchI didn't, Secretary of State John Kerry did. The questions I asked you, the ones you're not answering, were about things you said. Namely, that NOTHING == 35%.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 436 #40 December 16, 2015 The111***I didn't, Secretary of State John Kerry did. The questions I asked you, the ones you're not answering, were about things you said. Namely, that NOTHING == 35%. Because a 35% reduction in the rate of CO2 output will not keep CO2 concentration below the planet destroying level of 400ppm. Pissing into the wind would be an apt analogy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #41 December 16, 2015 brenthutchBecause a 35% reduction in the rate of CO2 output will not keep CO2 concentration below the planet destroying level of 400ppm. Pissing into the wind would be an apt analogy. It would keep it below that level for a longer amount of time. The planet will die eventually regardless, should we not try to keep it alive as long as possible? If somebody told you that you could extend your life by 20 years, would you say it would be "pissing into the wind" since you'll die eventually anyway? A more apt analogy (for NOT trying to improve the planet, or your own life, because it/you will still die one day anyway) would be "giving up." Furthermore, the 35% figure would probably increase as developing nations catch up. That is, if we start by setting the right example.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 436 #42 December 16, 2015 I will defer to James Hanson, (widely regarded as the father of AGW), “It’s a fraud really, a fake,” he says, rubbing his head. “It’s just bullshit for them to say: ‘We’ll have a 2C warming target and then try to do a little better every five years.’ It’s just worthless words. There is no action, just promises. As long as fossil fuels appear to be the cheapest fuels out there, they will be continued to be burned.” If the substitution of words for actions makes you feel better then God bless you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #43 December 16, 2015 You dodged the question again. If you could increase your own life span by 20 years but had to put in effort (actions), would you? What about 10 years? Or 5? What about just 1? At what point does the number become small enough for you to label it insignificant? What if you actually didn't know the exact number, but you knew that some actions would increase your life by some number of years? Would you take those actions? Your argument here seems to be that no matter what we do (actions), it won't make a big enough difference because of what you suppose (words) other people might do. So, you suggest we do nothing. Which is a much better example of valuing words over actions. Nobody can predict what other people will do, but a man can choose what he himself does. Moreover, the right moral choice is the right one regardless of what one or all of your neighbors are currently doing, regardless of what one or all of them "might" do in the future.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 436 #44 December 16, 2015 Your heart is in the right place but your brain has some catching up to do. It is more than likely, an anti CO2 agenda will kill more people than it saves. Cold kills more than warmth. Poverty kills more than affluence. As I have said before, cheap carbon based energy and capitalism have done more to help humanity then all of the redistributionist polices and save the world concerts combined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #45 December 16, 2015 brenthutchYour heart is in the right place but your brain has some catching up to do. It is more than likely, an anti CO2 agenda will kill more people than it saves. Cold kills more than warmth. Poverty kills more than affluence. As I have said before, cheap carbon based energy and capitalism have done more to help humanity then all of the redistributionist polices and save the world concerts combined. So let's continue our work on decreasing the cost of alternate forms of energy. Every new technology decreases in cost as it matures. You spoke earlier of third world despots, but there are plenty of 100% American companies within driving distance of my house who are working on just this. You might even say they're capitalists.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #46 December 16, 2015 BIGUN ******So what's your point? Is this like the argument, if we can't reduce gun violence to zero within 1 week with a simple law, we should just continue selling military grade weaponry to everybody? What?! Do you think we all have fully auto m-16, mp5, and Abrams tanks over here? Lemmee know if you need help in acquiring any of the items on your list. Full Auto M16 ~$2,500 with tax stamp MP-5 (Depends on if you want the 91 (.308) with full suppressor and full auto - ~$4,000 with both tax stamps. Abrams - Starting at $2.5 Million up to $7.5 Million (age, condition & location are price factors). I don't find them anywhere that price. The lowest I have found was $19,000-$22,000 im talking actual full auto/burst guns here. http://www.gunbroker.com/Machine-Guns/BI.aspx?Sort=5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,248 #47 December 16, 2015 Come to oklahoma. We'll fix you up.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 436 #48 December 16, 2015 billvon>What about if does NOTHING to solve the problem? Works for guns and carbon Most of the world disagrees with you. What about these guys? By P Gosselin on 15. December 2015 As expected, we are now finding out the Paris climate climate agreement has been spectacularly oversold to the public as a success for climate protection. Now that the text has been examined, it is clear that the agreement, which cannot even be called a treaty, and which has yet to be “ratified”, is turning out to be an empty package of pompous proclamations, opt-outs and intents. Global warming godfather James Hansen has even called the conference and its result a fraud. Economic expert Prof. Bjorn Lomborg wrote at Twitter that the agreement will be “extraordinarily costly“, and that it “will do little – if anything to rein in global warming.” At his blog renowned climatologist Dr. Roy Spencer ridiculed the watered-down agreement, implying that it is a meaningless feel-good gesture. Michael Limburg European Institute for Climate and Energy (EIKE) wrote that the agreement is not even a treaty, reminding us that it was even forbidden by President Obama to call it a “treaty”. EIKE calls the agreement “a failure” and that it is not possible to control the climate with “declarations of intent” EIKE adds that “participation in all climate protection measures remain for the most part voluntary and that no sanctions were agreed on and that even the climate faithful have had to concede that this it is useless“. Limburg writes that the only success of the agreement is: “The UN has taken an important step closer to reaching the target of transforming the current world order into one of a central planning system“. Climate experts Dr. Sebastian Lüning and Prof. Fritz Vahrenholt write at Die kalte Sonne: After years of fruitless climate conferences, the breakthrough supposedly has now been suddenly reached. But is it true? A closer look at the agreement document brings a surprise: Much remains optional, and financial commitments are kept limited. And that is good because the scientific basis of climate change is on very shaky ground on every front. It almost appears as if the media agree beforehand to report on this positively this time around in order to lend momentum to climate policymaking. A failure this time would have led the public to wonder.” At the Handelsblatt here meteorologist Karsten Schwanke says “the climate agreement is a catastrophe!“ Indeed the targets come up much too short, weather expert Karsten Schwanke belives. At the current pace we are headed for 3.2 to 5.4°C of warming until the year 2100 – and with our emissions we are moving along close to the top of the upper range.” Wanting to pile onto the voluntary requirement of 1.5°C – to say it mildly – is foreign to reality.” Die Welt/Prof Mojib Latif At the online flagship daily Die Welt, climatologist Mojib Latif is reported to be dissatisfied with agreement, and is quoted as saying the countries agreed on the “lowest common denominator” for climate protection. With these targets the agreed global warming cannot be achieved.” Die Welt notes that despite all the lofty rhetoric the world is not really taking the problem seriously, noting that “since the early 1990s global CO2 emissions have risen 60 percent“. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 235 #49 December 16, 2015 billvon>What about if does NOTHING to solve the problem? Works for guns and carbon Most of the world disagrees with you. Argumentum ad Populum. Most of the world is demonstrably wrong about just about everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #50 December 16, 2015 winsor***>What about if does NOTHING to solve the problem? Works for guns and carbon Most of the world disagrees with you. Argumentum ad Populum. Most of the world is demonstrably wrong about just about everything. You are quite right, however in this case the OP is demonstrably wrong about just about everything.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
