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JohnnyMarko

Active Shooters in San Bernardino, CA

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JohnnyMarko

***Im not sure if any one else saw this earlier, the shooter's landlord let the press remove the FBI placed plywood from the door and run wild through the house.

It was one of the strangest moments of live TV that I've ever seen.



I was going to come here to talk about this, but the usual back and forth of bullshit has already taken over the thread. Oh well.

Do you have a link to this. The one I found said it was taken down due to copyright
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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cvfd1399

Find me an infographic with the number of guns, poverty, and other important measures that make your first infographic so lopsided.



Do your own homework if you want to make a point.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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turtlespeed

******Im not sure if any one else saw this earlier, the shooter's landlord let the press remove the FBI placed plywood from the door and run wild through the house.

It was one of the strangest moments of live TV that I've ever seen.



I was going to come here to talk about this, but the usual back and forth of bullshit has already taken over the thread. Oh well.

Do you have a link to this. The one I found said it was taken down due to copyright

Link to what, T?

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And I do not give a fuck about any other country and besides



'Cause 'Murica!!!!

Quote

There are stories out there refuting your links but it really does not matter



Doesn't matter cause it potentially destroys the pro-gun lobby's ideas that gun control only affects the law-abiding citizen? Please provide such links, i'd love to see them.

Another stat: zero mass shootings in Australia since the gun buyback.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

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kallend

***Find me an infographic with the number of guns, poverty, and other important measures that make your first infographic so lopsided.



Do your own homework if you want to make a point.
Just pointing out that your shit infographic is flawed to the point only idiots will agree with it. It shows a lopsided data point without all the details to show why it is reasonably so.
Remember you guys bashing rush for showing a misleading statistic that doesn't include all the details that actually make it look one way when if you add all the details you see the real picture. Well pot meet kettle.

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cvfd1399

******Find me an infographic with the number of guns, poverty, and other important measures that make your first infographic so lopsided.



Do your own homework if you want to make a point.
Just pointing out that your shit infographic is flawed to the point only idiots will agree with it. It shows a lopsided data point without all the details to show why it is reasonably so.
Remember you guys bashing rush for showing a misleading statistic that doesn't include all the details that actually make it look one way when if you add all the details you see the real picture. Well pot meet kettle.

If you are disputing the numbers, say so rather than coming up with a lot of gobbledegook.

Are you disputing that US cops kill citizens at a rate about 50 times higher, per capita, than British cops?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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tonyhays

Quote

And I do not give a fuck about any other country and besides



'Cause 'Murica!!!!

***There are stories out there refuting your links but it really does not matter



Doesn't matter cause it potentially destroys the pro-gun lobby's ideas that gun control only affects the law-abiding citizen? Please provide such links, i'd love to see them.

Another stat: zero mass shootings in Australia since the gun buyback.

The average person in any country really doesn't give a crap about what other countries do unless it physically affects them.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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JohnnyMarko

*********Im not sure if any one else saw this earlier, the shooter's landlord let the press remove the FBI placed plywood from the door and run wild through the house.

It was one of the strangest moments of live TV that I've ever seen.



I was going to come here to talk about this, but the usual back and forth of bullshit has already taken over the thread. Oh well.

Do you have a link to this. The one I found said it was taken down due to copyright

Link to what, T?

The press being let in, you said you were going to talk about it, I can't find the link.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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So, how does this work?

Which 72 virgins does she get?
Does he still get his virgins?

Do they share the virgins?
Does he just get to watch?

Enquiring minds want to know.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed



The average person in any country really doesn't give a crap about what other countries do unless it physically affects them.



That's incorrect and mentally lazy. The more you understand and are connected with other countries the greater your concern/interest.

Sadly this doesn't apply to your average American.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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I alread ready did but I will again. Your info graphic shows a factually correct statistic but misleads the reader as to the reasons why because it leave out gun ownership numbers, crime, culture, demographics etc, etc. that describes why those numbers are so lopsided. It's not apples to apples comparison at all!

You should know all to well about letting out half truths to mislead readers Mr. South side.

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cvfd1399

I alread ready did but I will again. Your info graphic shows a factually correct statistic but misleads the reader as to the reasons why because it leave out gun ownership numbers, crime, culture, demographics etc, etc. that describes why those numbers are so lopsided. It's not apples to apples comparison at all!

You should know all to well about letting out half truths to mislead readers Mr. South side.



What do you know about the UK; enlighten us.

I hope you're bringing more reason/logic to your new job as a policeman.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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A perfect response would be dismissed here anyways but when I get home I will show you everything I can find that points out the reasons why the gun Violence is different between the two regions and why you can't compare the same statistics.

I would also like to point out that I am the only one here to suggest strict mental health and background checks in this entire thread so before you think I'm blindly pro gun and refuse changes keep that in mind.

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This is akin to discussing obesity and my example is 15lbs overweight and yours weighs 600lbs and needs assistance to just out of bed.

There is no rationalisation for the disparity of gun violence in the US in comparison to every other advanced nation.

I'm curious about your understanding of British life (or anywhere outside the US for that matter). You don't have a monopoly on crime or bad people; you do lead in the level and availability of guns to your population - which is what we're discussing.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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turtlespeed

***

Quote

And I do not give a fuck about any other country and besides



'Cause 'Murica!!!!

***There are stories out there refuting your links but it really does not matter



Doesn't matter cause it potentially destroys the pro-gun lobby's ideas that gun control only affects the law-abiding citizen? Please provide such links, i'd love to see them.

Another stat: zero mass shootings in Australia since the gun buyback.

The average person in any country really doesn't give a crap about what other countries do unless it physically affects them.

So why are we so involved with: Israel, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria...

We could let them mind their own business.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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So why are we so involved with: Israel, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria...

We could let them mind their own business.



Because the neo cons were able to get their way after 9-11. Americans were in the mood to kick some Islamic butt, and any Iraq would do just fine.

As Colin Powell said at the time, " if you break it you own it". So now America owns this problem. But luckily enough, she's managed to drag in most of the western world with her.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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normiss

Those are not the only places that the US provides aid to, of any type.
It's not all about kicking ass.




It was all about kicking ass in '03. A price needed to be paid for the 9/11 attack. The public was more than willing, and it's easy to see why. Cheney and company shamelessly used that fact to advance their well intentioned but very incorrect and misguided agenda.

This directly caused the present situation in which ISIS is using the feeling the Islam is under attack to advance their even more misguided agenda. War begat war as it often does.

Both sides were and are secure in the knowledge that God is on their side. Chew on that for a while before you respond.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Lets address the infographic and not get off on some geography lesson.

His infographic stated there were 55 fatal police shootings in England and Wales over the last 24 years, and there were 59 fatal police shootings in the first 24 days of 2015 in the US.

I stated this infographic lacks vital information that would show the reader why, and not just mislead them to think the reason was entirely based on bad cops.

Cops carrying guns
The first reason would be that only 5% of cops in the UK(besides Northern Ireland) are authorized to carry guns. If there are no cops with guns then NO SHIT there will be less people shot. But lets dive deeper into why they do not carry guns.

Gun ownership
In the UK since neither the police nor the victims are likely to be armed, the criminals don't really need guns so it isn't worth risking the very harsh punishments for getting caught illegally carrying one - in the UK, you get a minimum 5 years custodial sentence and a maximum of life. In the US almost all cops are armed to meet the threat that is present of anyone having a gun from a kid all the way to an elderly person. In the us gun ownership runs over 75 per 100 persons, and in the UK about 5-10, and is most likely schedule 1 type shot guns, muzzle loaders, etc. So there again if you have 5-10 bees in a room you are less likely to get stung than if there are 75+ bees.

Mental health
Every person in the U.K. has some form of health coverage. (This in itself, even before dissecting mental health services, is of course distinctive and cannot be stressed enough.) Their definition of health coverage, more to the point, has included mental health.
Quote

The critical feature of the system for those in need of mental health is that the definition of health coverage in the U.K. includes mental health.

In practice, this means that mental health services are an integrated part of the system. The national service framework for mental health (implemented after widespread reforms in 1999) focuses on providing care close to home, offering 24/7 service, access to modern medicines, the use of tailored treatment programs, early intervention for those at risk, using talking therapies such as cognitive behavioral therapy, and providing multi-disciplinary care.



Quote

The U.S.

In the United States, prior to the Affordable Care Act, mental health services were often excluded from private health insurance plans. This meant that only those on Medicaid were eligible for mental health services, which covered everybody under the Federal Poverty Level (currently $23,550 for a family of four), but allowed states to set their own minimums (provided it wasn’t below that amount). This led to much disparity among the states, with additional eligibility criteria for Medicaid severely limiting the options available to many Americans.


So yayy the ACA lets see if we can close the gap.


There are other reasons why one would be more likely to be shot by a US cop than in the UK which is not related to the cop themselves but I know I am wasting my time already so others can chip in about the culture, gangs, drugs, poverty, racism etc that set up these shootings.

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Agreed, statistics can be bent to imply almost anything. They need to be used in context.

In any case, you are basically correct. More guns in the hands of more people will lead to more people being shot. By cops, by robbers, by kids, and especially by depressed people committing suicide.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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He was showing an example of how it can be better. In your miss-guided manner, you have confirmed this rather than refute it.

Oddly you note that the in the UK:
- not everyone has or feels a need to have a gun
- UK puts more resources on healthcare / mental health

Seems to yield positive results; maybe you try it.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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