Active Shooters in San Bernardino, CA

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

Guns are inanimate objects. Left to their own devices, they will do nothing. To fix the problem of gun violence we have to fix people.

I agree with much of what you are saying, but this statement is simply too one sided.

Table saws are inanimate objects. However when people start losing body parts on them, we both teach safety and altered the equipment.

With almost all inanimate objects, we look at both training people and make alterations to the product to make it safer to use.

Points with which I agree

However

Table saws have changed little in the last 20 years

But training regarding safety has improved significantly

Just for context.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

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Table saws have changed little in the last 20 years

Bullshit.

There are now table saws which stop immediately upon contact with flesh preventing major injury. Quite a significant improvement over 20 years ago.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

Table saws have changed little in the last 20 years

Bullshit.

There are now table saws which stop immediately upon contact with flesh preventing major injury. Quite a significant improvement over 20 years ago.

Now that I had not heard of!

http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology

But they do come with a high price

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006G36V4E

Compared to others
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sears+contractor+table+saw&safe=active

And I know there are many in between

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

piisfish

you guys definitely need more guns.

Well, we are buying guns in numbers never before seen

And it does not seem to be increasing the problem so, maybe guns are not the issue


***Inconvenient Truth: Due to Police, Gun Violence Lowest Since 1960s

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/inconvenient-truth-due-police-gun-violence-lowest-1960s

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

rushmc

***

Quote

Table saws have changed little in the last 20 years

Bullshit.

There are now table saws which stop immediately upon contact with flesh preventing major injury. Quite a significant improvement over 20 years ago.

Now that I had not heard of!

http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology

But they do come with a high price

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006G36V4E

Compared to others
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sears+contractor+table+saw&safe=active

And I know there are many in between

Right, so we do tend to try to make the actual object safer, not just the people using the object.

Yet, for some reason when it comes to guns, supposedly we cannot talk about the object and only about the people. We really don't do that with any other objects.

As a side note, I wonder if the US constitution is the only constitution that specifically protects an object.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

Table saws have changed little in the last 20 years

Bullshit.

There are now table saws which stop immediately upon contact with flesh preventing major injury. Quite a significant improvement over 20 years ago.

Now that I had not heard of!

http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology

But they do come with a high price

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006G36V4E

Compared to others
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sears+contractor+table+saw&safe=active

And I know there are many in between

Right, so we do tend to try to make the actual object safer, not just the people using the object.

Yet, for some reason when it comes to guns, supposedly we cannot talk about the object and only about the people. We really don't do that with any other objects.

As a side note, I wonder if the US constitution is the only constitution that specifically protects an object.

I am not against making guns "safer".
But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable. Micro stamping does not work. Requiring spent shell casings to be cataloged does not work. And many of these tactics to make guns so called safer, hurt the poor more than others. Why would anyone want to deny a right to the poor?

Anyway

And the Constitution does not project an object
It protects a right to own and/or carry an object.
(gotta admit that was an interesting twist on your part)
And some laws were just overturned last month that prevented people from carrying switch blades because of the 2nd Amendment. Oh, and knives (as an object) are not protected under the 2nd either

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

you guys keep talking guns.....

the real solution is to outlaw mail order brides
perhaps marriage altogether just to be safe

(no icons, people have to decide for themselves if this is serious or not, YMMV and likely has)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Quote

But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable.

Why not? The safer table saw is significantly more expensive, yet there is a market for it. Why should that preemptively be stopped for guns?

I could imagine that as a parent with young kids in the house, you may want to spend more money on a gun that can only be fired by 1 specific person.

[winsor 185]

SkyDekker

Quote

But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable.

Why not? The safer table saw is significantly more expensive, yet there is a market for it. Why should that preemptively be stopped for guns?

I could imagine that as a parent with young kids in the house, you may want to spend more money on a gun that can only be fired by 1 specific person.

I have a table saw of the older, careful operation required, variety. I could not justify the price of the fantastically safe version for the amount of use it gets.

There is a "no guns" policy at my house. We are not so much worried about the kid getting shot as him telling the wrong person "my mom keeps a Webley Fosbury Automatic Revolver in the kitchen - it's really cool!" and having the place broken into by someone whose interest in collectible firearms was piqued. Having him want to show off something he thinks is cool is a bad idea as well.

Luckily he can't kick start the Harley yet.


BSBD,

Winsor

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable.

Why not? The safer table saw is significantly more expensive, yet there is a market for it. Why should that preemptively be stopped for guns?

I could imagine that as a parent with young kids in the house, you may want to spend more money on a gun that can only be fired by 1 specific person.

You buy it for them then. Money does not seem to be an issue for you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Quote

I have a table saw of the older, careful operation required, variety. I could not justify the price of the fantastically safe version for the amount of use it gets.

So therefor it shouldn't be marketed or produced at all?

[SkyDekker 1,120]

rushmc

***

Quote

But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable.

Why not? The safer table saw is significantly more expensive, yet there is a market for it. Why should that preemptively be stopped for guns?

I could imagine that as a parent with young kids in the house, you may want to spend more money on a gun that can only be fired by 1 specific person.

You buy it for them then. Money does not seem to be an issue for you

I would buy it for my family if it was available. But it simply isn't available in the US. Actually the product is actively being prevented from being sold. Which I believe you are in support of.

So, why are you in support of not allowing a safer version of one inanimate object, but allowing it for another inanimate object?

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

I have a table saw of the older, careful operation required, variety. I could not justify the price of the fantastically safe version for the amount of use it gets.

So therefor it shouldn't be marketed or produced at all?

Who the hell even insinuated that???

No
Make them
If they work and make sense, people will buy them

But that is not what the issue is now is it?
The issue is using the gov to force this on people

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Quote

Who the hell even insinuated that???

No
Make them
If they work and make sense, people will buy them

But that is not what the issue is now is it?
The issue is using the gov to force this on people

You have insinuated that.

I haven't said anything about the government forcing anything. An earlier poster wrote a great post, but I didn't agree with the premise that improvement only lies in the human element. There are improvements possible to the object.

Unfortunately those improvements are generally actively forced from the market by the lobby groups.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable.

Why not? The safer table saw is significantly more expensive, yet there is a market for it. Why should that preemptively be stopped for guns?

I could imagine that as a parent with young kids in the house, you may want to spend more money on a gun that can only be fired by 1 specific person.

You buy it for them then. Money does not seem to be an issue for you

I would buy it for my family if it was available. But it simply isn't available in the US. Actually the product is actively being prevented from being sold. Which I believe you are in support of.

So, why are you in support of not allowing a safer version of one inanimate object, but allowing it for another inanimate object?

All I am against is government requiring something like a smart gun

And I await your link showing where a safer gun is being prevented from being made (I really look forward to this)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

Who the hell even insinuated that???

No
Make them
If they work and make sense, people will buy them

But that is not what the issue is now is it?
The issue is using the gov to force this on people

You have insinuated that.

.

Please
Show us those posts

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

rushmc

*********

Quote

But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable.

Why not? The safer table saw is significantly more expensive, yet there is a market for it. Why should that preemptively be stopped for guns?

I could imagine that as a parent with young kids in the house, you may want to spend more money on a gun that can only be fired by 1 specific person.

You buy it for them then. Money does not seem to be an issue for you

I would buy it for my family if it was available. But it simply isn't available in the US. Actually the product is actively being prevented from being sold. Which I believe you are in support of.

So, why are you in support of not allowing a safer version of one inanimate object, but allowing it for another inanimate object?

All I am against is government requiring something like a smart gun

And I await your link showing where a safer gun is being prevented from being made (I really look forward to this)

I have previously supplied the link regarding the gun store which was forced to remove the smart gun after receiving multiple death threats.

We have had this discussion before. So not sure why you would really look forward to seeing it again, other than maybe enjoying the taste of leather?

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

************

Quote

But not by making them so costly to buy and maintain so as to make them unaffordable.

Why not? The safer table saw is significantly more expensive, yet there is a market for it. Why should that preemptively be stopped for guns?

I could imagine that as a parent with young kids in the house, you may want to spend more money on a gun that can only be fired by 1 specific person.

You buy it for them then. Money does not seem to be an issue for you

I would buy it for my family if it was available. But it simply isn't available in the US. Actually the product is actively being prevented from being sold. Which I believe you are in support of.

So, why are you in support of not allowing a safer version of one inanimate object, but allowing it for another inanimate object?

All I am against is government requiring something like a smart gun

And I await your link showing where a safer gun is being prevented from being made (I really look forward to this)

I have previously supplied the link regarding the gun store which was forced to remove the smart gun after receiving multiple death threats.

We have had this discussion before. So not sure why you would really look forward to seeing it again, other than maybe enjoying the taste of leather?

Who made the threats?
And why?

Sorry
I forget you think you can read minds

Never mind......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jclalor 12]

Im not sure if any one else saw this earlier, the shooter's landlord let the press remove the FBI placed plywood from the door and run wild through the house.

It was one of the strangest moments of live TV that I've ever seen.

[rushmc 18]

Ok
I went and did a search and found your story
A couple of things here
First
The story is from May of 2014
From the story and from listening to you, one would think smart guns are available so
I did a search looking for these guns that are for sale
Now, maybe I do not know how to search but I could not find any
Second
I did find the following from Forbes

Quote

Smart guns: They're ready. Are we?

April 22, 2015

http://fortune.com/2015/04/22/smart-guns-theyre-ready-are-we/

From Forbes

Quote

Doug, who runs the website smartgunz.com, asks us not to use his last name or to identify the town where he works. “I’m just in Nebraska,” he says. “What’s on the website,” he continues, “that’s the information that can be given out. I just want to see where it’s going to go. Take baby steps. Move forward as it progresses.”

A lifetime National Rifle Association member, Doug earns his living as a gunsmith and licensed firearms dealer, selling pistols, revolvers, assault rifles, and machine guns to law enforcement and other qualified customers.

That’s all ho-hum. But smartgunz.com is sensitive stuff, so Doug wants to insulate his mainstream business from it.

Cool
So I can go see a smart gun at smartgunz.com
Nope?
The domain not functional

Seems to be a bunch of fishy stuff here with all of this so

I ask again

Who made the threats?
And why?

If I am missing something, please share it with me

Edited to add

Ok
I found this

http://www.armatix.com/Smart-System.778.0.html?&L=7

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Seriously, how hard can it be?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+store+death+threats+smart+guns

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Seriously, how hard can it be?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+store+death+threats+smart+guns

You are behind
I already posted to you I found the story

with a bunch of other info
but I just got the following

The one gun I found was chambered in 22 LR and cost $1800.00

The whole story you posted smells

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Quote

The whole story you posted smells

You think it is made up?

Planted by the lieberal lamestream media?

Smells of what?

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

The whole story you posted smells

You think it is made up?

Planted by the lieberal lamestream media?

Smells of what?

Made up?

I don't know
I have no way of knowing

But, even you have to admit the whole smart gun theme leaves us with more questions than answers

Why would the gun store owner get threatened ?
Does not make sense
Who would make suck a threat if indeed it was really done?

If he was going to sell smart guns, (and this story is from almost 18 months ago) where are these smart guns? Why can then not be found for sale?

Why is the Forbes link useless?

Show me more smart guns for sale than the one I found.

Or, are you just buying into this because it helps you with your agenda?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,120]

My agenda?

You appear very paranoid.

Quote

Show me more smart guns for sale than the one I found.

My point is that they aren't around. Why would I want to find more smart guns for sale for you?

Quote

But, even you have to admit the whole smart gun theme leaves us with more questions than answers

Not really. I think they could be a great option for some people. It is unfortunate it is actively discouraged.