Toddler Shoots and Kills Himself in South Carolina

[gowlerk 2,160]

Another innocent. Another part of the price America pays.

http://time.com/4114874/south-carolina-toddler-shooting/

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[millertime24 8]

Seems like a pretty clear cut case of shitty parenting. Kids in the house=guns in the safe. Hence why no kids are welcome in my house

Muff #5048

[cvfd1399 0]

Excellent plan!

[millertime24 8]

cvfd1399

Excellent plan!

Don't get me wrong, I make exceptions, but when neither me or my wife are present all my shit is locked up.

Muff #5048

[kallend 1,935]

And the good guy with a gun strikes again...

CHICAGO, IL, 12/05/15: A man standing at a bus stop is recovering at home after being wounded by a stray bullet during a shootout between a shop owner and an armed robber on the South Side, according to police. The shop owner, who has a valid concealed carry license, was closing his cell phone store for the night about 7 PM Saturday in the 3300 block of West 79th Street in the Ashburn neighborhood when someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point, police said. The shop owner, who was with several employees, pulled out his gun, and the two began shooting at each other, police said. During the exchange, a 27-year-old man at a bus stop across the street was shot in the chest, police said. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn where he was treated and later released. The robber fled and no one else was reported injured. David Terrazas, who lives around the corner from the store, said a bullet from the shooting flew through his house, but no one was hurt. Terrazas, his wife and their three children returned home from having dinner Saturday night when he said he saw white powder on the floor and a bullet hole in the wall. The bullet traveled diagonally through the room before hitting the television set. No one was home, but he said he was a little shaken by the incident.

So the bad guy gets away and the "good guy" will no doubt get sued for a shitload of money.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BartsDaddy 6]

kallend

And the good guy with a gun strikes again...

CHICAGO, IL, 12/05/15: A man standing at a bus stop is recovering at home after being wounded by a stray bullet during a shootout between a shop owner and an armed robber on the South Side, according to police. The shop owner, who has a valid concealed carry license, was closing his cell phone store for the night about 7 PM Saturday in the 3300 block of West 79th Street in the Ashburn neighborhood when someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point, police said. The shop owner, who was with several employees, pulled out his gun, and the two began shooting at each other, police said. During the exchange, a 27-year-old man at a bus stop across the street was shot in the chest, police said. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn where he was treated and later released. The robber fled and no one else was reported injured. David Terrazas, who lives around the corner from the store, said a bullet from the shooting flew through his house, but no one was hurt. Terrazas, his wife and their three children returned home from having dinner Saturday night when he said he saw white powder on the floor and a bullet hole in the wall. The bullet traveled diagonally through the room before hitting the television set. No one was home, but he said he was a little shaken by the incident.

So the bad guy gets away and the "good guy" will no doubt get sued for a shitload of money.

So it is the business owner that was responsible for the wounding and property damage? It did not mention in the article whose gun did what damage. It could be one that caused the damage or both, without balistics it is just a guessing game.
And yes when a good guy with a gun has to use it You can all most be guarentied they will spend hundred thousand or more defending themselves in court. That is better than dieing to most people.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[kallend 1,935]

Another good guy with a gun:

ANDERSON, SC, 12/01/15: Anderson County's longtime chief deputy coroner, Charlie Boseman, has accidentally shot himself in the leg during a training drill. Local media outlets report Boseman's pistol fired as he was holstering his weapon after completing a "live shooter" training scenario Tuesday at the Anderson Police Department's shooting range. He wasn't seriously injured. Boseman says he believes a drawstring on his jacket became entangled with the pistol's trigger, which caused the weapon to fire. The bullet entered his right thigh and exited his right calf. He was treated at AnMed Health Medical Center in Anderson. Coroner Greg Shore says Boseman will be required to complete a gun-safety course before he can carry a weapon while on duty.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,935]

And another:

WAVERLY, OH, 12/03/15: A Pike County Sheriff's deputy has been charged with involuntary manslaughter following the shooting death of his neighbor, which occurred on Thursday night. Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader reported that he received a call from a dispatcher at 11:41 PM who indicated that Deputy Joel Jenkins had called the office and reported that an accidental shooting had occurred at his residence, 501 E. Seventh St. in Waverly. Reader said that units from the Waverly Police Department were dispatched to the residence. Jenkins was off-duty at the time of the incident. Reader said that while on the phone with the dispatcher, he could hear the radio traffic in the background and heard that the victim had received a gunshot wound to the head. At that time, Sheriff Reader, Waverly Police Chief Larry Roe, and Pike County Prosecuting Attorney Rob Junk went to the scene, along with prosecutor's investigator Brian Reader and the prosecutor's victims advocate, Dave Dickerson. Pike County Coroner David Kessler pronounced the victim, Jason Brady, 40, dead at the scene. Following the incident, Reader stated that the only thing he was aware of as far as how the incident occurred was that when Jenkins called in about the incident, he stated that he was showing his neighbor a gun and it had accidentally discharged and shot his neighbor in the head. Sheriff Reader said that Sgt. Joe Taylor of the Waverly Police Department secured the scene and the Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation (BCI) was contacted to conduct an investigation and search warrant. "Sheriff Reader and I knew that we wanted to refer this out of the county and make sure that we had an independent investigator working on this case, due to the fact that an officer was involved," said Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk. "BCI sent their Special Investigative Unit down, along with the Crime Scene Unit, and they searched the house and conducted interviews." Reader reported that death notifications were made to Brady's mother, roommate, girlfriend, girlfriend's mother, and his 15-year-old son. "Based on BCI's investigation, one of the agents filed an involuntary manslaughter charge against Deputy Jenkins, due to the fact that he was using a weapon while intoxicated, which is a misdemeanor," said Junk. "Whenever you commit a crime, say using a weapon while intoxicated, and you kill someone or their death results from the incident, that is involuntary manslaughter, a third-degree felony. I'm in contact with the Special Prosecution unit and they are already handling a case on Jenkins for the officer-involved shooting which occurred on the west side of the county earlier this year. Because of the type of incident it is involving an officer, we want to have someone neutral from outside of the area to come take a look at the case." Reader said that Jenkins was one of the deputies involved in the March 28 officer-involved shooting on Fields Hollow Road that resulted in the death of Robert C. Rooker. This occurred before Reader was sheriff, and then-Sheriff Richard Henderson placed Jenkins on administrative leave at that time, according to Reader. Reader stated that he put Jenkins on administrative leave again when he was appointed sheriff and that he did not put Jenkins back to work until a mental health professional sent Reader written notification that Jenkins was fit for duty. During Friday's press conference regarding the incident, Junk said that officer-involved incidents are especially difficult in small communities where everyone is very interconnected. "Pike County is a very small community, and we all know each other. In some ways that is good, and in some ways it is bad," said Junk. "I've worked with Deputy Jenkins multiple times on cases, and he has testified in front of grand jury for me in the past. Sheriff Reader has worked with him, and the Waverly Police Department has worked with him. In a small community, things like this affect everybody. In this case, we have a 40-year old victim with a teenage son who is going to grow up without his dad because of what this officer did. It is fair to say that everybody is pretty upset about this." Junk says the incident is not a reflection of the Pike County law enforcement community. "We have plenty of good, upstanding officers who would never dream of being involved in something like this," said Junk. "I have zero tolerance for people drinking alcohol and messing around and using weapons ... You cannot touch a gun and consume alcohol, period. I don't care who you are. It is just wrong and should never be done." During a 1 PM press conference on Friday, Junk reported that Jenkins was taken into custody and transported to the Franklin County Jail, where he will remain until his arraignment in Pike County Court on Monday. "They will set up a preliminary hearing within 10 working days to determine whether or not there is probable cause to go forward with the case," said Junk. "It will then go to grand jury and evidence will be presented by BCI to make a determination of whether or not there is enough probable cause to indict Deputy Jenkins."

Who needs bad guys when you have good guys like these?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 763]

And another

Oh wait, sorry, that's one of the few actual good outcomes.

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

Hi Barts,

Quote

And the good guy with a gun strikes again...

Scenario #1)

>>>> someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point

>>>> and the two began shooting at each other

>>>> You can all most be guarentied they will spend hundred thousand or more defending themselves in court.

Scenario #2)

>>>> someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point

>>>> Just hand over the merchandise & go on with your life

I'll take Door #2 please.

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

Hi Jerry,

The "hand it over and go on with your life" is actually a pretty good idea.

But many criminals are depending on that. And once presented with armed resistance, often turn and run.

And it does depend on the bad guy "holding up his end of the bargain." They have been known to shoot the victim for the most trivial of reasons, or no reason what so ever.

Generally, trying to out draw someone who is holding a gun on you is a really bad idea. Almost nobody is that fast. No pistol can disable the bad guy fast enough to ensure he won't shoot back and kill you.

It's a very difficult decision to make, and needs to be made in a very brief amount of time.

Edit to add:

Professor Kallend made three posts. One involved a shootout between an armed citizen and a criminal. A bystander was shot. As was pointed out, by whom? And before we blame the armed citizen, would anyone have been shot if the robber hadn't tried to hold up the store owner?

Another involved a "chief deputy coroner" who was training at the police range. He shot himself in the leg when "the drawstring on his coat entangled with the trigger."

Please. That's like "a gust of wind blew me into a tree."
Draw and fire practice is fairly dangerous. Proper technique (keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot) is vital.
His instructors failed badly in not making sure of that.

The last involved a drunk off duty cop playing with his gun. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

So two of the three involve government officials.

And the third doesn't address who shot whom.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[BartsDaddy 6]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Barts,

Quote

And the good guy with a gun strikes again...

Scenario #1)

>>>> someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point

>>>> and the two began shooting at each other

>>>> You can all most be guarentied they will spend hundred thousand or more defending themselves in court.

Scenario #2)

>>>> someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point

>>>> Just hand over the merchandise & go on with your life

I'll take Door #2 please.

Jerry Baumchen

You forgot scenario 3
Someone comes up with a gun and tries to rob him at gunpoint.

Just hand over the merchandise and get shot and killed.
Handing over the merchandise dosent mean they are,going to stop at just robery.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[turtlespeed 212]

BartsDaddy

***Hi Barts,

Quote

And the good guy with a gun strikes again...

Scenario #1)

>>>> someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point

>>>> and the two began shooting at each other

>>>> You can all most be guarentied they will spend hundred thousand or more defending themselves in court.

Scenario #2)

>>>> someone with a gun approached and tried to rob him at gun point

>>>> Just hand over the merchandise & go on with your life

I'll take Door #2 please.

Jerry Baumchen

You forgot scenario 3
Someone comes up with a gun and tries to rob him at gunpoint.

Just hand over the merchandise and get shot and killed.
Handing over the merchandise dosent mean they are,going to stop at just robery.

There are no guarantees. I'll do the one in the situation that benefits me and my family the most.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

Hi Barts,

Quote

Handing over the merchandise dosent mean they are,going to stop at just robery.

And I fully agree.

In #1, #2 & #3, I am very sure that all are a potential scenario. However, my thinking is if I'm the bad guy and I want to rob you then kill, I'll reverse that: I'll kill you first, then it's much easier to rob you.

I do believe that, no matter how armed you are, if someone is intending to kill you then rob you, it will happen. You will not see it coming.

Just my additional $0.02; and yours are just as valuable.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Two managers at work stepped out of an elevator in a parking garage ( neither was armed in any manner ). The bad guy stuck his gun in their faces and told them to lay facedown. They would never have been able to bring up a weapon in time. They were not injured in anyway ( other than their pride ), he just took their wallets and split, but he did keep his gun on them until he was far away. And I know that this is only one incidence.

[BartsDaddy 6]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Barts,

Quote

Handing over the merchandise dosent mean they are,going to stop at just robery.

And I fully agree.

In #1, #2 & #3, I am very sure that all are a potential scenario. However, my thinking is if I'm the bad guy and I want to rob you then kill, I'll reverse that: I'll kill you first, then it's much easier to rob you.

I do believe that, no matter how armed you are, if someone is intending to kill you then rob you, it will happen. You will not see it coming.

Just my additional $0.02; and yours are just as valuable.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Two managers at work stepped out of an elevator in a parking garage ( neither was armed in any manner ). The bad guy stuck his gun in their faces and told them to lay facedown. They would never have been able to bring up a weapon in time. They were not injured in anyway ( other than their pride ), he just took their wallets and split, but he did keep his gun on them until he was far away. And I know that this is only one incidence.

But as the incident posted it was a store owner closing up. If you kill him first it is hard to get him to open the door and turn off the alarm.
And face it You are not a killer and criminal, at least I don't think so? So you do not think like a lot of them do. A lot of strong arm roberies are an act of power and not just wanting what the other person has, but to show who's boss.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

Hi Barts,

Quote

But as the incident posted it was a store owner closing up.

Yup, and this is the outcome: "CHICAGO, IL, 12/05/15: A man standing at a bus stop is recovering . . . "

So an innocent man is shot; could have just as easily been a fatality. IMO hand over the goods that the bad guy wants & everyone goes home alive & well.

YMMV,

Jerry Baumchen

[cvfd1399 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Barts,

Quote

But as the incident posted it was a store owner closing up.

Yup, and this is the outcome: "CHICAGO, IL, 12/05/15: A man standing at a bus stop is recovering . . . "

So an innocent man is shot; could have just as easily been a fatality. IMO hand over the goods that the bad guy wants & everyone goes home alive & well.

YMMV,

Jerry Baumchen

You hope. Sometimes they claim to let you go so you give up all the goods easily and quickly then kill you to leave no witnesses.

[kallend 1,935]

cvfd1399

***Hi Barts,

Quote

But as the incident posted it was a store owner closing up.

Yup, and this is the outcome: "CHICAGO, IL, 12/05/15: A man standing at a bus stop is recovering . . . "

So an innocent man is shot; could have just as easily been a fatality. IMO hand over the goods that the bad guy wants & everyone goes home alive & well.

YMMV,

Jerry Baumchen

You hope. Sometimes they claim to let you go so you give up all the goods easily and quickly then kill you to leave no witnesses.

Sometimes an asteroid strikes and wipes out 90% of life on Earth. But the smart money goes with the most likely scenario.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[cvfd1399 0]

About 90,000 people are a victim of violent crime during a robbery per year. Is that insignificant to you?

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

Hi cvfd,

Quote

About 90,000 people are a victim of violent crime during a robbery per year.

OK, Mr. Statistician, tell us how many of those 90k are killed each year.

See what the odds really tell you?

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

Hi Jerry,

As is often with this sort of question, the answer is "it depends."

If you search "did not resist robber killed" you will get a lot of results. Anecdotally, it happens a fair amount. No real way that I know of to tell if any particular robber will or won't. I was always taught to assume that anyone who deliberately points a gun at someone is willing to kill them.
But, again, if the bad guy already has his gun out and pointing at a victim, the opportunity of the victim to defend themselves is pretty much gone.

However, there is this on the question of "Am I more likely to be hurt or killed if I resist a Criminal Attacker?"

Quote

The research is contradictory on this question. The short answer is that it depends on the type of crime and what method the victim uses to resist. Resistance to crimes of violence is more common than most people realize. Overall 71.4% of victims of violent crime took some type of self-protective measure. Such measures include screaming, running, physically fighting the attacker, and using a weapon, among other things (12). Resisting a crime by using a firearm generally reduces your chance of being hurt or killed, especially for women. A study by Gary Kleck found that the probability of serious injury in a criminal attack is two and a half times greater for women offering no resistance than women resisting with a firearm. Men are also safer if they resist with a firearm than if they do not resist at all, but the difference is smaller (1.5 times less likely to be injured) (13).

Unarmed resistance, on the other hand, does positively correlate with an increased rate of injury in most crimes. One study showed that, during a retail robbery, unarmed resisting store clerks were 50 times more likely to be killed than clerks who did not resist (14). Victims resisting robberies are 20% more likely to be injured than victims who comply with the robbers’ demands. Eighty-six percent of resisting victims are injured as compared to sixty-six percent of compliant victims (15). Presence of a weapon by the criminal does not influence injury rates. Injury rates are the same between victims attacked with weapons and victims attacked by unarmed criminals (26%), although victims attacked by armed criminals were about 3.5 times more likely to suffer serious injuries (16).

Link
Question is the 6th one down.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[cvfd1399 0]

Your attitude suggests that you either did not think out what a violent crime really is considered, or you are trying to stick with the anti gun argument that well they were not killed they were just "stabbed, shot, raped, beaten, etc" so a gun still is not needed.

There is a low chance of homicide during a robbery but 90,000 get beaten shot, stabbed, and raped, why are you trying to diminish that fact?

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

Hi cvfd,

Quote

There is a low chance of homicide during a robbery

So why didn't you answer my question?

Jerry Baumchen

[cvfd1399 0]

Because the FBI and BJS did not offer up that data that I could find. It only broke down a robberies violent crimes into rapes, assaults etc.

[turtlespeed 212]

Post deleted by moderator.

There is now a new rule in Speaker's Corner: no jokes about rape.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun