Paris attacks: Shootings kill 18, hostage-taking at Bataclan arts centre

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

When compared to christian violence over the course of history who wins?

"Atheist governments in the USSR, China and Russia were in fact the biggest perpetrators of mass violence that the world has ever seen, with both governments individually responsible for many more deaths than the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler. The presence of the millenarian ideology of Communism (like Nazism) gave the rulers the justification for mass murder, in much the same way that religion had been used by other rulers before them the world over to justify war. The common thread here linking the disposition to war of religious and atheistic states is absolutism: the more absolutist the state, the more likely it is to go to war."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwiZpJe61ZjJAhXHbB4KHRa5DI4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F2%2Fshared%2Fspl%2Fhi%2Fworld%2F04%2Fwar_audit_pdf%2Fpdf%2Fwar_audit.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGBsSOvF6i1brwFxZ0ktBS-1guUHw&sig2=y6Wa3_q6dsbP4_tSxbN5Ig&cad=rja


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3513709.stm

normiss

What's the difference?

Who cares? Right now this is about the immediate issue with Islamic extremism and their direct relationship to global warming.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

What christians do
Fuck them just like all the other convert or die terrorists throughout history.
The sooner we rid the planet of religion the better off we will be.

Sounds like you have something in common with these guys:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists


But not to worry, you're probably not a real atheist anyway:

"Cognitive scientists are becoming increasingly aware that a metaphysical outlook may be so deeply ingrained in human thought processes that it cannot be expunged"

"atheism is psychologically impossible because of the way humans think..."

“A slew of cognitive traits predisposes us to faith,” writes Pascal Boyer in Nature, the science journal, adding that people “are only aware of some of their religious ideas”

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

okalb

I apologize if I mistakenly assumed that when you said you were ok with the Japanese camps you were aware that they were Americans that we were imprisoning. I took that to mean that you were also ok with putting American Muslims into similar camps. I was really not trying to get into a pissing match with you.

Meh, just seems like more passive aggressive non-sense.

If you were being "honest...No games, no hidden agenda... genuinely curious" then why not just ask him straight-up about the american muslims without all the clueless detective pretense - trying to draw a parallel that isn't there?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[okalb 78]

Coreeece

*** I apologize if I mistakenly assumed that when you said you were ok with the Japanese camps you were aware that they were Americans that we were imprisoning. I took that to mean that you were also ok with putting American Muslims into similar camps. I was really not trying to get into a pissing match with you.

Meh, just seems like more passive aggressive non-sense.

If you were being "honest...No games, no hidden agenda... genuinely curious" then why not just ask him straight-up about the american muslims without all the clueless detective pretense - trying to draw a parallel that isn't there?

Nothing to do with any pretense other than my own personal litmus test. Anyone that in this day and age still believes that Japanese internment was a good idea is just not worth trying to have a discussion with about this particular topic.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[bigbearfng 9]

Nothing to do with any pretense other than my own personal litmus test. Anyone that in this day and age still believes that Japanese internment was a good idea is just not worth trying to have a discussion with about this particular topic.


______________________________________________
I only glance in SC anymore-a couple of you seem to be having a real discussion on this subject so I figured I would throw out some perspective from the times from my dad that you may appreciate.

Background-He was on the Pennsylvania when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He wouldn't talk about the war until the last few years he was alive. I figured out he was a beach master in invasion after invasion across the pacific and was on the way to Japan to invade when the a-bombs forced their surrender. He never collected any of his medals and didn't want them.
When the last movie Pearl Harbor came out they invited a bunch of vets from WWII to it on opening and surprisingly he went with my mom. When they left the theatre some reporters confronted the vets and one of them asked my dad in a confrontational manner about the interment of the Japanese and how wrong it was.
He surprised me by keeping his cool and told them that it was very wrong that their property was taken, business's ruined however he had no problem with removing them from the west coast.
He was accused of being racist etc and how could he agree with that.
He said-you have to remember we were a bunch of 18 year olds fighting the Japanese and dying ourselves with access to lots of weapons-and if we were home on shore leave and saw any Japanese we would probably have killed them.

Just food for thought from the times to keep in mind when you look back at it.....

[normiss 622]

Seriously?
Acid much?

[tonyhays 86]

Quote

"Atheist governments in the USSR, China and Russia were in fact the biggest perpetrators of mass violence that the world has ever seen, with both governments individually responsible for many more deaths than the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler. The presence of the millenarian ideology of Communism (like Nazism) gave the rulers the justification for mass murder, in much the same way that religion had been used by other rulers before them the world over to justify war. The common thread here linking the disposition to war of religious and atheistic states is absolutism: the more absolutist the state, the more likely it is to go to war."

I love it when theists mention this. Nobody was killed in the name of atheism, they were in the name of a political ideology. Trying to link it to atheism is pathetic.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[skypuppy 1]

DanG

Quote

Well, Chattanooga TN is about 100 miles from here. We have an Islamic training camp for the MOA less than 100 miles from here. The Muslims Of America have been linked to terrorists.

Yeah, Paris, France and Chattanooga, TN are probably considered equally high value targets for terrorists.

Who has linked MOA to terrorists? What is going on at the "training camp" that is so nefarious?

BTW, I used to go to a Christian Training Camp when I was a young, easily radicalized child. We trained with guns, and even more dastardly silent bows and arrows. We even practiced survivalist skills like camping, fire building, horseback riding, and disguising our faces with masks. Most people thought I was just going to a summer camp run by some Christian brothers, but I was really training to commit unspeakable acts. Someday some friar will walk past and whisper the secret action word. At that point, I will spring into action as I was trained. I can't decide if I'll make a keychain or paint some pottery. Either way, watch out imperialists bastards!

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So is that self-inflated sense of importance? Maybe, but my friends, mostly veterans, and I are concerned.

Yes, it is. You are 100 miles away from a city where a couple years ago a lone gunman killed a few people. Do you really think that puts you in danger?

Quote

On the news this morning they keep showing an ISIS video stating Washington DC is next. Isn't that close to you?

I live about 40 miles from Washington DC. I grew up less than 10 miles from the city. I'm not the least bit concerned about terrorists.

Well I live near Barrie ontario. That's about 50 miles from Toronto, ontario, and about 20 miles from the camp set up by a bunch of muslims a few years ago where they practiced shooting and blowing things up. They eventually were rounded up and convicted of attempting to kill multitudes of people in the downtown banking core of the city - they're called the Toronto 18, if you want to look them up. One of the major witnesses against them, a former employee at CSIS used to jump at one of the places I jump at. Later, some muslim immigrants were convicted of trying to blow up a VIA bridge between toronto/new york. and before that, some bombed/burned a building in a stripmall in ottawa, and another shot a soldier and stormed the parliament buildings in our nations capitol. Sooo.... Yes, terrorism IS a fact of life in Canada.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[ibx 2]

Quote

I love it when theists mention this. Nobody was killed in the name of atheism, they were in the name of a political ideology. Trying to link it to atheism is pathetic.

And these political ideologies have almost all of the characteristics of a religion.

[billvon 2,396]

> Yes, terrorism IS a fact of life in Canada.

So is death by lightning strike, and in fact lightning kills far more Canadians than terrorism in any given year. But while lightning deaths are a fact of life up there, not too many Canadians that I know live in fear of it.

[CornishChris 5]

http://www.someecards.com/entertainment/tv/waleed-aly-isis/

The above is a link to a comment from an Australian Muslim about ISIS and how Ron is almost doing their work for them. I recommend all participating in this discussion watch it.

Are you a Star Trek fan Ron? Did you know George Takei was in a Japanese internment camp, you should look up some of his interviews about how horrific it was. I like to think the world has moved on since the Second World War but apparently in some parts it has not.

I honestly do not understand how you can hold the beliefs and prejudices you do and still righteously call yourself a Christian and try to convert others to the warped way in which you view the world. I hold all with extreme religious beliefs in the same equal contempt, be they Christian, Muslim or whatever other entirely made-up ideology they follow.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[piisfish 135]

CornishChris

... or whatever other entirely made-up ideology they follow.

do you include Pastafarians in your diatribe ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[CornishChris 5]

Quote

do you include Pastafarians in your diatribe ?

Of course not. That is the one true religion.

Ramen.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

Seriously?
Acid much?

No reason to get all defensive and lash out - it's just science. I wasn't asking you to take my word for it, but it does appear that we are predisposed to faith that tends to manifest itself in a variety of ways. You can read more about it here:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/08/evolutionary_st088461.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/full/4551038a.html


On a lighter note, I think Stewie from Family Guy said it best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMWgE1GFp0M

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

tonyhays

Quote

"Atheist governments in the USSR, China and Russia were in fact the biggest perpetrators of mass violence that the world has ever seen, with both governments individually responsible for many more deaths than the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler. The presence of the millenarian ideology of Communism (like Nazism) gave the rulers the justification for mass murder, in much the same way that religion had been used by other rulers before them the world over to justify war. The common thread here linking the disposition to war of religious and atheistic states is absolutism: the more absolutist the state, the more likely it is to go to war."

I love it when theists mention this. Nobody was killed in the name of atheism, they were in the name of a political ideology. Trying to link it to atheism is pathetic.

Groups like the LMG used propaganda, intimidation and murder to maintain an atheistic state and eliminate religious expression. They even had their own banner!
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/File:Bezbozhnik_u_stanka_-_The_Fifth_Anniversary_of_the_Union_of_Militant_Atheists,_1930,_n._7.jpg

There were over 100 million pages of anti-religious propaganda publications - books, brochures, magazines.

Here are a few in case you missed them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bezbozhnik_u_stanka_15-1929.jpg

https://img1.etsystatic.com/035/0/6202694/il_570xN.536329397_e9is.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bezbozhnik_u_stanka_22-1929.jpg

The most chilling aspect about all this, is that the same bigoted ideology espoused by the LMG back then is practically the same ideology espoused by many atheists here today - with the exception of being overtly homicidal, of course.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Was it necessary, at the time, as a temporary measure? According to the history of and people leading the fight at the time- unfortunately yes.

Again, if it was so neccessary then why were yellow americans with family ties to the enemy treated so differently to white americans with family ties to the enemy?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

He said-you have to remember we were a bunch of 18 year olds fighting the Japanese and dying ourselves with access to lots of weapons-and if we were home on shore leave and saw any Japanese we would probably have killed them.

Just food for thought from the times to keep in mind when you look back at it.....

Anecdotes that demonstrate how fucked up, racist and xenophobic people were back in the day doesn't help justify the unconstitutional actions of the government. If anything it helps show that their actions were based on racism and xenophobia.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[winsor 186]

billvon

>(Compare and contrast the treatment of white americans of German heritage
>and yellow americans of Japanese heritage)

I am certain some people here would applaud the US for what they did to Japanese Americans during WWII. They were just as scary to 1940's era Americans as Muslims are to many people today.

You confuse ethnicity with ideology. Japanese is ethnicity, Islam is ideology.

To use the Teutonic example, someone whose forebears settled in Lancaster County and still spoke German, but read Mein Kampf and said "this is badly written drivel, that nobody with half a brain could accept!" is not much of a threat.

Someone, OTOH, who read Mein Kampf and said "gee, this is enlightening! Why, I can find no fault with any of these marvelous revelations!" is a real problem.

Similarly, someone who reads the Koran and says "this is seriously fucked up" is not a problem, regardless of their ethnicity.

Again, if someone reads the Koran and says "gee, this is enlightening! Why, I can find no fault with any of these marvelous revelations!," they have demonstrated a malignant disconnect in their cognitive processes, and anyone that fucked up in the head is justifiably scary.

Someone I knew that had a few mental wiring issues complained that someone with cancer got sympathy, but that someone with mental illness did not. I pointed out that someone with cancer was not likely to snap and do irreparable harm to themselves and/or anyone within range.

The mental illness that is Islam is one of the most pathological forms of mental malware out there. Don't get me wrong, the group that venerates a means of executing Jews gives me pause, putting the symbols of their mode of execution hither and yon, but that is a separate issue. Islam, in any form and in no uncertain terms, specifies the use of self-destruction as an offensive tactic. I thus hold accountable to anyone who adheres to that ism.

The bastardization of Bushido that was used to further the Imperial Japanese goals had a similar self-destruct offensive mechanism, which was a show stopper for Americans for sure. I know my father had a complete change of perspective the first time he saw Kamikazes in action.

In the military, one has to swear an oath to put on the uniform. In wartime, anyone wearing that uniform is fair game to the opposition.

We are at war, regardless of whose fault that is, and anyone who has sworn an oath to Islam has opted for the other side. Their choice.

Admittedly, letting on that one has concluded that Islam is seriously evil after claiming to be Muslim places one at the risk of being treated as an apostate, which is fatal, so people may consider the risk of infidels to be trivial compared to the very real risk of the True Believers around them.

In any event, equating Japanese ethnicity with Islam is either uninformed or disingenuous.


BSBD,

Winsor

[jakee 1,254]

Iago

***

Quote

Was it necessary, at the time, as a temporary measure? According to the history of and people leading the fight at the time- unfortunately yes.

Again, if it was so neccessary then why were yellow americans with family ties to the enemy treated so differently to white americans with family ties to the enemy?

I wouldn't know. I wasn't there at the time.

Neither were you, so all we have to go on is what is written in the books.

So go with what's written in the books and you'll figure out that it was unnecessary and motivated by racism.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

I choose not to do so myself

But you did make a judgement. You said according to history it was necessary.

Quote

and reserve mine for the situations where I am actually present at the time and not just reading about them decades later.

What else don't you judge from that time? Southern states thought Jim Crow was necessary, do you refrain from disgreeing with them? The Japanese thought their atrocities in China and treatment of POWs was necessary, do you still shrug over that? The Nazis thought the Holocaust was necessary, do you say "I don't know, I wasn't there"?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 622]

Science?
From a guy trying to convince me that invisible beings talk to them.
Thanks.
All good here boss.

[rushmc 18]

jakee

******

Quote

Was it necessary, at the time, as a temporary measure? According to the history of and people leading the fight at the time- unfortunately yes.

Again, if it was so neccessary then why were yellow americans with family ties to the enemy treated so differently to white americans with family ties to the enemy?

I wouldn't know. I wasn't there at the time.

Neither were you, so all we have to go on is what is written in the books.

So go with what's written in the books and you'll figure out that it was unnecessary and motivated by racism.

No
It was motivated by fear

But that fact does not fit your narrative!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

***When compared to christian violence over the course of history who wins?

"Atheist governments in the USSR, China and Russia were in fact the biggest perpetrators of mass violence that the world has ever seen, with both governments individually responsible for many more deaths than the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler.

Apples and Oranges. If you're going to classify all murders committed by atheists as done for the purpose of promoting atheism, then you have to classify ALL murders committed by Christians as done in the name of Christianity. When you do that, Christianity wins hands down. Especially in the USA.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,254]

rushmc

No
It was motivated by fear

But that fact does not fit your narrative!!

Yeah, they were afraid of them because they're yellow.

Once again, if it was otherwise why where white german-americans not treated so harshly?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

***No
It was motivated by fear

But that fact does not fit your narrative!!

Yeah, they were afraid of them because they're yellow.

Once again, if it was otherwise why where white german-americans not treated so harshly?

In YOUR opinion

Which I reject out of hand!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln