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Darius11

Monogamy, Polygamy,Polyandry,Promiscuity etc (ON SUBJECT PLEASE)

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Here is a new subject to hate each other over.

I have been reading a lot of history got to sex in the prehistory and then sucked in too anthropology.

The short of it: By design physical/evolution what we can tell (lots of it is up for debate)is that we are made for promiscuity.

Now lots of things some very scientific, some a little stretched and some seemingly unrelated is used to make this case.


Whats your take? Could you share? would you care if someone fucked your girl/boy friend, ( if "your" even exists in that world) when other girls and boys are always ready and willing to have sex would jealousy exists?

There is a lot of information and i don't want to make a mile long post mentioning all the science, for you and my fingers health.

Do you have a belief that we are designed for a certain type of system? and why.


Me i am old school.

That's what i have read and it makes sense to me "their" science, however i cant even begin to think of being able to function in such a world. We do not like to share me or Her.

However i wonder is it just because as stated i am old school.
I can't function in a every body fuck whatever any time and we all raise the kids together world, but i think that's MY problem.
I think it makes sense or more sense for sex to be a lot easier to get for everyone, and would free up a lot of wasted energy. It makes sense i just cant not comply


ON subject please
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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One man, one woman or one father and one mother to raise a family and teach responsibility to their children. The inner city welfare culture is our current example of what happens when you choose the other path.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Interesting. In current (maybe last couple hundred years) society, we are best set up for monogamy.

The "Family Unit" is a huge part of how society functions. Lately, with the "One parent is the bread-winner, the other is the caretaker" falling off, it's not as cohesive of a family unit, but it's still there.

2 parents, cooperatively raising the kids, seems to work well. Single parenting (either parent) is tough. "Split-parenting" (separated parents with joint custody) only works well if the parents are cooperating. If, as happens far too often, the parents continue their fighting with the kids as pawns, then the kids suffer.

Personally, I've never cheated on a S/O. Ever. Once we decided that we are exclusive to each other, that was it.
That's how I was raised, that's how I am. I don't think I could "Share" a S/O without a lot of issues popping up.
But that's me and my thoughts on current society.

I don't know if we, as a society, could have "open relationships", collectively raising the kids, no jealousy, no problems. In theory, yes. Doing it in practice, however, would take a rather different set of societal values than are present today.

But keep in mind that other species cannot. Lions, for example. If a new male takes over, he kills all the cubs that aren't his. Purely to maintain his bloodline over the previous male's.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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kallend

Anatomically and physiologically we are set up for polygamy/promiscuity. Monogamy is a societal construct (but a useful one).



It keeps disease down some.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed

***Anatomically and physiologically we are set up for polygamy/promiscuity. Monogamy is a societal construct (but a useful one).



It keeps disease down some.

But again, that's a function of society. As small tribal units that wouldn't be an issue at all. It's only with humans living in large groups that ever became an issue.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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RonD1120

One man, one woman or one father and one mother to raise a family and teach responsibility to their children. The inner city welfare culture is our current example of what happens when you choose the other path.



And Where might that be in the Bible???... Lots of variations found in there

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quade

******Anatomically and physiologically we are set up for polygamy/promiscuity. Monogamy is a societal construct (but a useful one).



It keeps disease down some.

But again, that's a function of society. As small tribal units that wouldn't be an issue at all. It's only with humans living in large groups that ever became an issue.


I am not sure we would be where we are today without society, and if a large society could survive and thrive without the nuclear family model?

From what i have read it seems everything changed when we decided to start farming. When we stopped moving.
However i am not sure if 7 billion could just wonder around or we would ever get to those numbers, or have any idea what the world and the people who lived in it would be like.

It is hard for me to imagine i mean that literally there is too much that would be different if we only viewed sex differently.

Fun Fact for everyone else: on this planet no mammal spend more time of their life in the action of sex then us. So its animal to have sex for procreation only and human to fuck to fuck.

So much misinformation in our language and the way we use it.

I know i am a nerd but i love this stuff
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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Darius11

Fun Fact for everyone else: on this planet no mammal spend more time of their life in the action of sex then us. So its animal to have sex for procreation only and human to fuck to fuck.



You might want to look up bonobos.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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kallend

Anatomically and physiologically we are set up for polygamy/promiscuity. Monogamy is a societal construct (but a useful one).




Why/what is useful?

I think its great for the current system business, agriculture, etc..

however how would one measure usefulness?
I am not trying to be funny or argue its like trying to say what success is?

I mean how do you compare going to the moon or Mars and the vast knowledge we have today, to most of the species living healthy happy satisfied lives with lost of sex and free time?

I wonder if it has to be one or the other.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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RonD1120

One man, one woman or one father and one mother to raise a family and teach responsibility to their children. The inner city welfare culture is our current example of what happens when you choose the other path.




I respect your beliefs but they are beliefs unfortunately beliefs as they are 100% leave no room for discussion.

As for the inner city welfare i think there are many factors involved but there is no denying that it is much harder for a child for many reasons when they are from broken home.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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I have! they come up all the time they are what has been left out of sexuality when it comes to old thought and most education on the subject. they fuck all the time but its about 5 -7 sec. or something very short.

I am no anthropologist but according to them no one spends more time during their life in the act of sex then humans.

This did not include fantasies, thinking watching porn.... or even masturbation. If they added that i am sure it would be easier to measure the time we did not think about sex.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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quade

***Fun Fact for everyone else: on this planet no mammal spend more time of their life in the action of sex then us. So its animal to have sex for procreation only and human to fuck to fuck.



You might want to look up bonobos.

I was just going to post that, then I saw you beat me to it.:D
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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Why/what is useful?

I think its great for the current system business, agriculture, etc..

however how would one measure usefulness?
I am not trying to be funny or argue its like trying to say what success is?



It's useful because it ensures a relatively even distribution of resources. And reduces conflict within a society. The problem comes with the biological discrepancy between males and females. Men can biologically father thousands of children, without expending lots of resources. Woman on the other hand can only have comparatively few children. In the later stages of pregnancy and in the first few years of the child, the resources of the woman are severely limited due to having to take care of the child or children.

Now lets assume the basic premise that the aim of life is to spread ones genes, because that's what drives evolution.

In traditional hunter/gatherer societies, the way pretty much all humans lived until the advent of farming and settling into cities, men had to supply the family unit with food. A man shockingly also has limited resources, so best way ensure that
1. His genes/children survive, he can't father too many children with too many woman since they would starve
2. He does not provide for another mans children/genes - a great source of conflict for any society.

Monogamy was developed.

This pretty much solves all of these issues especially when enforced by society/religion.

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I think its great for the current system business, agriculture, etc..



I just read this part... must have skipped it before.

In a post-scarcity society like we live in I think this is where you are wrong because now society can take of woman and children that do not have men to care of them. This is exactly what happens with social security or whatever you would call it.

Additionally society can pool resources and have dedicated people take care of children, so woman are once again free to utilize their resources without being dependent on a man.

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RonD1120

I was thinking more of Sociology 101 and Common Sense 101. Also an elective in Marriage and Family.



Those that really do believe on the Bible.. might argue those you mention are not of the Bible so not worthy of consideration....;)

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Love is not finite. If you have a child with your partner, you will love the child. You don't suddenly love your partner less though. There's not a bucket of love that you get to dole out in certain doses. You love them both. If you have a second child, you don't suddenly love the first one less as they have to accept now only a 1/3 share of the total amount of love you have to give.

If you can love infinitely, why should that be any different with partners?

If you love your partner, you want them to be happy and have awesome experiences in life. If getting their rocks off in a non-committal way with Mr or Mrs X will be an awesome experience for them, why would you not want them to have that awesome experience? Would you not also vicariously experience pleasure in their having a fun experience? You would if was a great day at a funfair. Why not when it's fucking?

Would your partner not want you to have similar fun and vicariously experience personal pleasure in you having fun? They would if you were telling them about your day at the funfair. Why not when it's fucking?

Sex is fun and there's plenty of love to go around for everyone without anyone being diminished. If everyone feels like that, then where's the harm with consensual non-monogamy? If someone in the relationship doesn't agree, fine there's the harm; stick to the rules and no cheating! I think there's far too much telling other people what they should or should not do and feel in this world. People should be free to make their own course in life and agree with the people in their life what is or is not permitted within and around their relationship without outside intervention from the world at large.

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In traditional hunter/gatherer societies, the way pretty much all humans lived until the advent of farming and settling into cities, men had to supply the family unit with food. A man shockingly also has limited resources, so best way ensure that
1. His genes/children survive, he can't father too many children with too many woman since they would starve
2. He does not provide for another mans children/genes - a great source of conflict for any society.



This very fact/motive for monogamy is brought up they do not say it is incorrect, they do say however there is no reason to think it is correct as no real evidence as it is viewed and assumed from a very judgmental POV

According to the newest information we are extremely ill informed about those hunter/gatherers. Mainly we have taken the evidence and analyzed it by our own 1700-1800s view which was grossly skewed. The fact we still hold true what Victorian era anthropologist said as truths is wrong. One should recall a valid point that in those times Female sexuality was viewed as Evil.

Would anyone be able to bring to the world, that yes Woman being in power and just as sexual as men maybe even more is natural? We are talking about a time when saying a woman enjoyed sex or acknowledging a woman has a clitoris could end you up jailed maybe dead.

A lot of what we view as factual about those hunter gathered is from sources that old. Not saying everything said is wrong i am not even one who can determine that, just that the points made about that environment greatly skewing the facts is a valid point.

facts they dispute: How long people lived, how healthy people were, The amount of wars, What i cant understand is the jealousy part? Its emotion and emotions are very deep.

They claim in an environment where the females are the sex initiators and sex has no stigma not willing to have sex does, male jealousy does not exists. I can't buy that but at the same time i have never lived in an environment where sexuality doesn't come with some judgment? has anyone in the last 3000 years?

FYI: Current tribe hunter/gatherer cultures are brought up and almost all the old information is skewed as new information is counter to what was said to be true.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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ibx

Quote

I think its great for the current system business, agriculture, etc..



I just read this part... must have skipped it before.

In a post-scarcity society like we live in I think this is where you are wrong because now society can take of woman and children that do not have men to care of them. This is exactly what happens with social security or whatever you would call it.

Additionally society can pool resources and have dedicated people take care of children, so woman are once again free to utilize their resources without being dependent on a man.


:D:D:D I just read this and that is a very valid point
i would also add where we might be in a 100 years we might be colonizing another planet, a whole new planet would not be possible hunting and gathering.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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fantastic post that's literally the other side of looking at it.


I agree with you! you are logical and i can not argue with anything you stated. I have a good friend for years open marriage 31 years now married two kids happy.

I have asked him, it does not bother you at all that your wife is going out to get banged then come home and give you a kiss and all is ok??? He says yes its cool by him sighting all the same things posted and i know he means it.
I don't get how being ok with it happens!?

I feel like i am looking at 2+2 and seeing 9 even tough i know its 4 i can't accept it and don't feel i ever could. Maybe that's where my evolution stops on this go around, i really dont know.

But i think you are right that's the correct way to look at it but i cant do it, and that's what i am trying to understand from all the great info on here.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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This very fact/motive for monogamy is brought up they do not say it is incorrect, they do say however there is no reason to think it is correct as no real evidence as it is viewed and assumed from a very judgmental POV



Don't get me wrong but this sounds a lot like the post modernist approach to anthropology. In my opinion this approach is biased from the beginning.

Quote

According to the newest information we are extremely ill informed about those hunter/gatherers. Mainly we have taken the evidence and analyzed it by our own 1700-1800s view which was grossly skewed. The fact we still hold true what Victorian era anthropologist said as truths is wrong. One should recall a valid point that in those times Female sexuality was viewed as Evil.



What is this newest information you speak of? The very problem with this field is, that is hardly any information to go by. History literally started when writing was invented.

Quote

facts they dispute: How long people lived, how healthy people were, The amount of wars, What i cant understand is the jealousy part? Its emotion and emotions are very deep.



These are all facts unrelated to monogamy except for jealousy. Jealousy is again easily explained by your innate drive to distribute your genes. If your partner sleeps with another man, it's possible for him to farther her child, that you would mean that you would invest resources in to furthering the distribution of someone elses genes.

Quote

They claim in an environment where the females are the sex initiators and sex has no stigma not willing to have sex does, male jealousy does not exists. I can't buy that but at the same time i have never lived in an environment where sexuality doesn't come with some judgment? has anyone in the last 3000 years?



With what evidence? Again this sounds like a post modernist approach at rewriting human history.

Quote

FYI: Current tribe hunter/gatherer cultures are brought up and almost all the old information is skewed as new information is counter to what was said to be true.



Exactly. Current hunter/gatherer societies have been extensively studied esp. in Papua New Guinea. There are some weird society models, but most them conform pretty much to monogamy with polygamy reserved for individuals with high status. Why should it have been different 10.000 years ago?

Aaaah I know: The patriarchy. :P

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Interesting.

I wonder what part possessiveness plays into the monogamy part.

I can see men being as possessive as women, and vice versa.

Instinctual?

Who should be the alpha?

Where does homosexuality stand in the dynamics of monogamy?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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