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piisfish

No need for guns when you have religion....

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billvon

>So you adamantly defend that if you BEAT SOMEONE TO DEATH it is no big deal,
>but if you own guns and have no criminal record, you should do life in prison.

Nope, never claimed that.

What's wrong with obeying the laws?



Nothing wrong with obeying the laws. Like I said, I have no criminal record. No DUIs, no drug charges, no theft, no assaults. The first time my finger prints ever hit the system was when I applied for my CCW, and the next/last was for my security clearance investigation.

I'm 100% law abiding. I just find it odd that although all 50 states are governed by the same constitution, if I cross a state line I go from perfectly legal to violent felon because of "common sense" gun laws in NY.

*so that was how the "common sense" laws affected me and thousands of other 100% law abiding citizens like me. How did it affect mass shooters in NY?

April 3, 2009. Binghamton, New York
An immigration center became a scene of violence when a gunman entered during citizenship classes, killing 13 victims and himself. Police found 37 survivors hiding in closets and a boiler room and said the gunman is Jiverly Wong, 42, who lived in nearby Johnson City.


COMMON SENSE

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>Nothing wrong with obeying the laws.

Good; we agree there.

> I just find it odd that although all 50 states are governed by the same
>constitution . . . .

?? They're not. Each state has its own constitution. We are the United States of America, not the American Federal Government. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence declared that the states "do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States." When they created the US Constitution, they kept that in mind; the Tenth Amendment states that explicitly.

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if I cross a state line I go from perfectly legal to violent felon because of "common sense" gun laws in NY.


Yep. And when I was growing up, you could cross a state line and suddenly be able to drink - then go back and not be able to. Today people cross state lines and find that they have to pay a different sales tax, or have to obey different traffic laws, or have to pay a completely different set of business taxes. If you are a woman, you might find yourself unable to have an abortion. If you are a child, you may find the laws over parental rights change completely. It's part of living in a nation made up of independent states.

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Keep pretending it is manslaughter verse what I got. As I said, I got lucky because I made it to a federal installation where federal law trumps state law, so I wasn't charged with anything.



Pretending? You brought them both into the conversation, I'm just responding to your scenario.

And hang on a minute - you think with you "life in prison vs no big deal" nonsense that you aren't pretending? Wow. I thought you knew you were talking shit:|

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I'm 100% law abiding.



See, clearly and by your own admission that's not the case. You went to New York and broke their gun laws. Why are you pretending that isn't true?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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billvon

>Nothing wrong with obeying the laws.

Good; we agree there.

> I just find it odd that although all 50 states are governed by the same
>constitution . . . .

?? They're not. Each state has its own constitution. We are the United States of America, not the American Federal Government. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence declared that the states "do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States." When they created the US Constitution, they kept that in mind; the Tenth Amendment states that explicitly.

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if I cross a state line I go from perfectly legal to violent felon because of "common sense" gun laws in NY.


Yep. And when I was growing up, you could cross a state line and suddenly be able to drink - then go back and not be able to. Today people cross state lines and find that they have to pay a different sales tax, or have to obey different traffic laws, or have to pay a completely different set of business taxes. If you are a woman, you might find yourself unable to have an abortion. If you are a child, you may find the laws over parental rights change completely. It's part of living in a nation made up of independent states.



There's a slight difference in paying differing sales taxes and the line between law abiding family man and violent felon.

You have a couple guns for target shooting, hunting, one in case someone breaks in at night. Everything by the letter of the law. Then you relocate to NY for work, you get arrested, convicted of a violent felony and go to prison for half your life. Your family struggles without your paycheck, your kids grow up without you, you live with murders and rapists, and the tax payers spend about $150,000 a year to keep you there.

Lives ruined because of your idea of common sense.

Meanwhile, psycho bob applies for a permit, buys a gun, walks into a school and kills 20 people while being in complete compliance of your common sense.

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billvon

Yep. And when I was growing up, you could cross a state line and suddenly be able to drink - then go back and not be able to. Today people cross state lines and find that they have to pay a different sales tax, or have to obey different traffic laws, or have to pay a completely different set of business taxes. If you are a woman, you might find yourself unable to have an abortion. If you are a child, you may find the laws over parental rights change completely. It's part of living in a nation made up of independent states.



bizarro world - clearly if you are State's Rights advocate you must hate black people

(It's the default talking point - automatic to put it out there. I don't make the rules.) :P

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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You have a couple guns for target shooting, hunting, one in case someone breaks in at night. Everything by the letter of the law. Then you relocate to NY for work, you get arrested, convicted of a violent felony and go to prison for half your life. Your family struggles without your paycheck, your kids grow up without you, you live with murders and rapists, and the tax payers spend about $150,000 a year to keep you there.

Lives ruined because of your idea of common sense.



Sounds just like the war on drugs.

Except with the war on drugs it isn't hypothetical.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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jakee

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Keep pretending it is manslaughter verse what I got. As I said, I got lucky because I made it to a federal installation where federal law trumps state law, so I wasn't charged with anything.



Pretending? You brought them both into the conversation, I'm just responding to your scenario.

And hang on a minute - you think with you "life in prison vs no big deal" nonsense that you aren't pretending? Wow. I thought you knew you were talking shit:|

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I'm 100% law abiding.



See, clearly and by your own admission that's not the case. You went to New York and broke their gun laws. Why are you pretending that isn't true?


I was protected by the federal law allowing one to transport guns through NY as long as their final destination isn't in the state of NY. From the time I crossed the state line I didn't stop other than for gas until I reached a federal installation.

Therefor, I was lucky in that I did not accidentally break NY state law.

So yes, I am 100% law abiding. If I had decided to stop and sleep instead of pushing through, I would have been breaking the dumb ass law

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>There's a slight difference in paying differing sales taxes and the line between
>law abiding family man and violent felon.

Agreed. That was just an example of how a great many laws change when you cross the border. We are a union of free and independent states, not a homogeneous federally- controlled country.

>Then you relocate to NY for work, you get arrested, convicted of a violent felony
>and go to prison for half your life. Your family struggles without your paycheck,
>your kids grow up without you, you live with murders and rapists, and the tax
>payers spend about $150,000 a year to keep you there.

Yep. People who break the law can end up in jail. Can be for weapons violations, for forgetting to pay your taxes for a few years, even for not knowing she was 16. Good option there - obey the law. Nothing wrong with obeying the law, as you have admitted.

>Meanwhile, psycho bob applies for a permit, buys a gun, walks into a school
>and kills 20 people while being in complete compliance of your common sense.

Nope. He's breaking the law as well, and hopefully will (at least) spend his life in prison.

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Nothing wrong with obeying the law
How many LESS shootings would there be if
-Criminals would not break the LAW and obtain illegal arms
-Criminals would not break the LAW and participate in straw purchases
-Criminals would not break the LAW and carry a gun onto a school, gun free zone
-Criminals would not break the LAW and commit murders
-etc etc etc

I bet if you would take out all those CRIMINALS the gun deaths would drop so low it would be a non issue.....Ooh wait if it was 1 death it would still be at the top of the liberal bitching list.

Keep making laws for the legal owners because that is a great fucking move to stop LAW breaking CRIMINALS.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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So yes, I am 100% law abiding.



So why do you keep talking like you were in danger?

Ever since your first post on the subject you have sent confusing messages about what is and is not breaking the law.

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If I had decided to stop and sleep instead of pushing through, I would have been breaking the dumb ass law



How so? Does the federal law specify non-stop transit?

(And what about your "life in prison vs no big deal" rubbish? Any response to that?)
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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How many LESS shootings would there be if
-Criminals would not break the LAW and obtain illegal arms
-Criminals would not break the LAW and participate in straw purchases
-Criminals would not break the LAW and carry a gun onto a school, gun free zone
-Criminals would not break the LAW and commit murders


-Criminals would not break the LAW and transport weapons across state lines illegally

Yes, all those things would help. And fortunately we are doing a better job of enforcing them nowadays:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-shop-verdict-20151013-story.html

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jakee

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So yes, I am 100% law abiding.



So why do you keep talking like you were in danger?

Ever since your first post on the subject you have sent confusing messages about what is and is not breaking the law.

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If I had decided to stop and sleep instead of pushing through, I would have been breaking the dumb ass law



How so? Does the federal law specify non-stop transit?

(And what about your "life in prison vs no big deal" rubbish? Any response to that?)



So to answer both of those questions, yes, federal law allows you to transport through states where you guns are restricted, but your destination cannot be in that state (you must be passing through from one legal state to another) and yes, if you stay overnight, then they consider the place you stayed to be your destination for that day, so you would not be protected by the federal transport exemption.

I was in danger because I was provided very badly outdated information stating that I had a 30 day grace period to register them, when in fact you must first be a resident of NY, then apply for the CCW (a 12-24 month process), and then you can have your guns shipped to an NY state FFL who will register them with the state and add them to your permit.

While I presumed I was doing everything right, I was only legal as I crossed the first five states. If I stopped in NY in transit, or stayed at a hotel near base before checking in, I could have been convicted of a felony, had everything confiscated, been dishonorably discharged, spent the next 25 years in prison, then come out as an unemployable convict, possibly without my butthole virginity, depending on which prison gang I can get into.

And this wuldnt have been from doing anything violent or dangerous or whatever. It would have been because of "common sense" laws.

But what got me riled up was that, if I had rolled across the state line Andre beat someone to death, I would have faced slightly less severe penalties.

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While I presumed I was doing everything right, I was only legal as I crossed the first five states. If I stopped in NY in transit, or stayed at a hotel near base before checking in, I could have been convicted of a felony, had everything confiscated, been dishonorably discharged, spent the next 25 years in prison, then come out as an unemployable convict, possibly without my butthole virginity, depending on which prison gang I can get into.



You said that the consequences for a class B felony were "No big deal" and the consequences for a class B felony include everything that you just said.

So again, if the worst possible penalty for transporting your firearms illegally in NY is no big deal, why are you still bitching about it?

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But what got me riled up was that, if I had rolled across the state line Andre beat someone to death, I would have faced slightly less severe penalties.



Yeah, sure, "slightly less severe" was the phrasing that you were using up until now:S
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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SkyDekker

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I was in danger because I was provided very badly outdated information



Way to take responsibility for your own actions.

Provided badly outdated information, or didn't do enough research?



I don't know how many times you have had 4 months notice to pack your entire house, put the house on the market, do a good hand over of your job and responsibilities to another person, turn in a bunch of equipment, clear a military base, clear a unit, move 1000 miles away to a state you've never been to and inprocess a new post, draw new equipment, search for suitable housing, close on a house, and move into said house and unpack, and then get ready for your next deployment that is just around the corner.

I took my information guide from the provost Marshall and didn't spend a lot of time second guessing everything. In the military, you have to trust your leadership sometimes. Unfortunately, most people outside the military, and most democrats could give a fuck less about it so we are always busy watching our backs because of stuff like this

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>I took my information guide from the provost Marshall and didn't spend a lot of
>time second guessing everything. In the military, you have to trust your
>leadership sometimes. Unfortunately, most people outside the military, and
>most democrats could give a fuck less about it so we are always busy watching
>our backs because of stuff like this

Fortunately, most people outside the military (and even most inside) can live their lives - and even obey the law! - without being told what to do.

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jakee

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While I presumed I was doing everything right, I was only legal as I crossed the first five states. If I stopped in NY in transit, or stayed at a hotel near base before checking in, I could have been convicted of a felony, had everything confiscated, been dishonorably discharged, spent the next 25 years in prison, then come out as an unemployable convict, possibly without my butthole virginity, depending on which prison gang I can get into.



You said that the consequences for a class B felony were "No big deal" and the consequences for a class B felony include everything that you just said.

So again, if the worst possible penalty for transporting your firearms illegally in NY is no big deal, why are you still bitching about it?

Quote

But what got me riled up was that, if I had rolled across the state line Andre beat someone to death, I would have faced slightly less severe penalties.



Yeah, sure, "slightly less severe" was the phrasing that you were using up until now:S


Never said a class B felony was no big deal

My issue is that the nonviolent arbitrary firearms violation is a more severe crime than BEATING PEOPLE TO DEATH which you either agree with or just can't seem to grasp.

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billvon

>I took my information guide from the provost Marshall and didn't spend a lot of
>time second guessing everything. In the military, you have to trust your
>leadership sometimes. Unfortunately, most people outside the military, and
>most democrats could give a fuck less about it so we are always busy watching
>our backs because of stuff like this

Fortunately, most people outside the military (and even most inside) can live their lives - and even obey the law! - without being told what to do.



Oh, alright. I got ya.

Fortunately, liberal dope smoking hippie anti gun sheep pissing and moaning about how all their problems would be solved if we succumb to their twisted politicizing of emotional situations to pass their ridiculous and pointless laws are the minority in this country.

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Fortunately, liberal dope smoking hippie anti gun sheep pissing and moaning about how all their problems would be solved if we succumb to their twisted politicizing of emotional situations to pass their ridiculous and pointless laws are the minority in this country.



Agreed. Also fortunately, far more people support stronger gun laws than people who think they are too strict.

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billvon

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Fortunately, liberal dope smoking hippie anti gun sheep pissing and moaning about how all their problems would be solved if we succumb to their twisted politicizing of emotional situations to pass their ridiculous and pointless laws are the minority in this country.



Agreed. Also fortunately, far more people support stronger gun laws than people who think they are too strict.



False. That statement is based off of a poll conducted by the Obama administration of 1100 people in a liberal area.

There's a reason why the shit doesn't pass legislation.

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>False. That statement is based off of a poll conducted by the Obama
>administration of 1100 people in a liberal area.

That's been true across dozens of polls from several different polling organizations (Gallup, Pew, CBS, ORC, Quinnipac) in polls taken across the country. The number of people who support tougher gun laws hovers right around half (45-54% over the past two years) the number who want them kept the same is around a third (36-32%) and the number who want them made less strict is a tiny minority (9-13%.)

~90% support background checks for gun purchases, ~88% support laws to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, and ~68% support tracking all gun sales.

Might want to get your information from somewhere other than the NRA.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

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billvon

>False. That statement is based off of a poll conducted by the Obama
>administration of 1100 people in a liberal area.

That's been true across dozens of polls from several different polling organizations (Gallup, Pew, CBS, ORC, Quinnipac) in polls taken across the country. The number of people who support tougher gun laws hovers right around half (45-54% over the past two years) the number who want them kept the same is around a third (36-32%) and the number who want them made less strict is a tiny minority (9-13%.)

~90% support background checks for gun purchases, ~88% support laws to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, and ~68% support tracking all gun sales.

Might want to get your information from somewhere other than the NRA.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm



After Sandy Hook, five states jumped on the band wagon and adopted stricter gun laws. One of them was Colorado. Obama raved over how great it was that a pro gun state like Colorado could pass new gun laws. Six months later, Colorado had their laws recalled, so we are back to four that bit at Obamas bait. At the same time, 10 other states loosened their gun laws.

Might want to get your news somewhere other than Obama or Bloomberg.

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billvon

>If he did do jail time and had a class A felony, and lost his second amendment
>rights because of that, that would be just and correct.

What's wrong with obeying the law, Turtle? You have been a staunch advocate of that.



Nothing. He should have researched the law. It is absolutely his fault.

Do you think the laws are a bit skewed toward an anti gunner's view?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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jakee

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You have a couple guns for target shooting, hunting, one in case someone breaks in at night. Everything by the letter of the law. Then you relocate to NY for work, you get arrested, convicted of a violent felony and go to prison for half your life. Your family struggles without your paycheck, your kids grow up without you, you live with murders and rapists, and the tax payers spend about $150,000 a year to keep you there.

Lives ruined because of your idea of common sense.



Sounds just like the war on drugs.

Except with the war on drugs it isn't hypothetical.



Show me where the constitution grants the right to bear drugs, and I would agree with you.

I look at it like jaywalking getting you a felony, while letting the hit and run perp pay a fine.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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