More preschoolers shot per year than cops on duty

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Cops who wait for you to finish your movement and visually process what is in your hand before making a decision to act and then acting on said decision don't tend to live very long.

Yeah they do. Again - people will listen to you more if you use less outrageous exaggerations. Even the worst cops with the slowest reactions who couldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside tend to live as long as everybody else.

Quote

A better way is if the criminal suspect just complies with verbal commands

Right, 'cos that's a realistic solution. (Especially when there are several police officers surrounding one guy all shouting different commands at the same time we're blaming the guy who sometimes hasn't even done anything wrong for being flustered, panicked and not doing exactly what the cops want, straight away?)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skycop 0]

Quote

This will never be answered, because he would try to change the rules of physics before admitting he made a mistake.

When a police officer perceives a threat, he has milliseconds to react. In these situations you don't think, process, of reason what a proper response would be, your body reacts to the situation.

Muscle memory will take over and he will do what he was trained to do through academy training drills and experience. Various shoot/no shoot scenarios and so forth. You can think of it like an AAD that fires in a descending airplane. The AAD fires when certain parameters are met. It isn't analyzing the possibility that something else could be causing those parameters, because if it took the time to do that, the jumper would die. That is what happens in the mind in a life and death situation.

They say hindsight is always 20/20. After the fact, you have all the information from the event, you see the big picture, you analyze it with reasoning and logic. Everything is black and white, and it seems so clear to you that he fucked up. To the officer, at the time, in the grey area, in the moment, with information he had, which the parameters being met, he took action.

There are very rare cases where cops are just shit bags and make bad judgment calls. They get punished for if. Most are awesome. Cops that react to preserve the life of themselves or others, who after the fact realize the parameters were set off by a false alarm, they have to life with it. They may hesitate in the future, second guess themselves, take unnecessary risks, become depressed, or suffer from PTSD.

Fight or Flight

To produce the fight-or-flight response, the hypothalamus activates two systems: the sympathetic nervous system and the adrenal-cortical system. The sympathetic nervous system uses nerve pathways to initiate reactions in the body, and the adrenal-cortical system uses the bloodstream. The combined effects of these two systems are the fight-or-flight response.
When the hypothalamus tells the sympathetic nervous system to kick into gear, the overall effect is that the body speeds up, tenses up and becomes generally very alert. If there's a burglar at the door, you're going to have to take action -- and fast. The sympathetic nervous system sends out impulses to glands and smooth muscles and tells the adrenal medulla to release epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) into the bloodstream. These "stress hormones" cause several changes in the body, including an increase in heart rate and blood pressure.
At the same time, the hypothalamus releases corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) into the pituitary gland, activating the adrenal-cortical system. The pituitary gland (a major endocrine gland) secretes the hormone ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone). ACTH moves through the bloodstream and ultimately arrives at the adrenal cortex, where it activates the release of approximately 30 different hormones that get the body prepared to deal with a threat.
The sudden flood of epinephrine, norepinephrine and dozens of other hormones causes changes in the body that include:
heart rate and blood pressure increase
pupils dilate to take in as much light as possible
veins in skin constrict to send more blood to major muscle groups (responsible for the "chill" sometimes associated with fear -- less blood in the skin to keep it warm)
blood-glucose level increases
muscles tense up, energized by adrenaline and glucose (responsible for goose bumps -- when tiny muscles attached to each hair on surface of skin tense up, the hairs are forced upright, pulling skin with them)
smooth muscle relaxes in order to allow more oxygen into the lungs
nonessential systems (like digestion and immune system) shut down to allow more energy for emergency functions
trouble focusing on small tasks (brain is directed to focus only on big picture in order to determine where threat is coming from)
All of these physical responses are intended to help you survive a dangerous situation by preparing you to either run for your life or fight for your life (thus the term "fight or flight"). Fear -- and the fight-or-flight response in particular -- is an instinct that every animal possesses. This will never be answered, because he would try to change the rules of physics before admitting he made a mistake.

When a police officer perceives a threat, he has milliseconds to react. In these situations you don't think, process, of reason what a proper response would be, your body reacts to the situation.

Muscle memory will take over and he will do what he was trained to do through academy training drills and experience. Various shoot/no shoot scenarios and so forth. You can think of it like an AAD that fires in a descending airplane. The AAD fires when certain parameters are met. It isn't analyzing the possibility that something else could be causing those parameters, because if it took the time to do that, the jumper would die. That is what happens in the mind in a life and death situation.

They say hindsight is always 20/20. After the fact, you have all the information from the event, you see the big picture, you analyze it with reasoning and logic. Everything is black and white, and it seems so clear to you that he fucked up. To the officer, at the time, in the grey area, in the moment, with information he had, which the parameters being met, he took action.

There are very rare cases where cops are just shit bags and make bad judgment calls. They get punished for if. Most are awesome. Cops that react to preserve the life of themselves or others, who after the fact realize the parameters were set off by a false alarm, they have to life with it. They may hesitate in the future, second guess themselves, take unnecessary risks, become depressed, or suffer from PTSD.

Fight or Flight

To produce the fight-or-flight response, the hypothalamus activates two systems: the sympathetic nervous system and the adrenal-cortical system. The sympathetic nervous system uses nerve pathways to initiate reactions in the body, and the adrenal-cortical system uses the bloodstream. The combined effects of these two systems are the fight-or-flight response.
When the hypothalamus tells the sympathetic nervous system to kick into gear, the overall effect is that the body speeds up, tenses up and becomes generally very alert. If there's a burglar at the door, you're going to have to take action -- and fast. The sympathetic nervous system sends out impulses to glands and smooth muscles and tells the adrenal medulla to release epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) into the bloodstream. These "stress hormones" cause several changes in the body, including an increase in heart rate and blood pressure.
At the same time, the hypothalamus releases corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) into the pituitary gland, activating the adrenal-cortical system. The pituitary gland (a major endocrine gland) secretes the hormone ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone). ACTH moves through the bloodstream and ultimately arrives at the adrenal cortex, where it activates the release of approximately 30 different hormones that get the body prepared to deal with a threat.
The sudden flood of epinephrine, norepinephrine and dozens of other hormones causes changes in the body that include:
heart rate and blood pressure increase
pupils dilate to take in as much light as possible
veins in skin constrict to send more blood to major muscle groups (responsible for the "chill" sometimes associated with fear -- less blood in the skin to keep it warm)
blood-glucose level increases
muscles tense up, energized by adrenaline and glucose (responsible for goose bumps -- when tiny muscles attached to each hair on surface of skin tense up, the hairs are forced upright, pulling skin with them)
smooth muscle relaxes in order to allow more oxygen into the lungs
nonessential systems (like digestion and immune system) shut down to allow more energy for emergency functions
trouble focusing on small tasks (brain is directed to focus only on big picture in order to determine where threat is coming from)
All of these physical responses are intended to help you survive a dangerous situation by preparing you to either run for your life or fight for your life (thus the term "fight or flight"). Fear -- and the fight-or-flight response in particular -- is an instinct that every animal possesses.

Please stop using reason and physiological stuff.

I've tried, it can't beat the 24 hour news cycle and the internet armchair experts.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[jbscout2002 1]

Dude, these aren't "outrageous exaggerations". They are typical scenarios that play out across the country every day. I get touchy about it because my father has been in law enforcement for over 20 years. He hasn't had any of these "grey zone" type incidents, but I've basically grown up worrying he will either be killed in the line of duty or end up on the chopping block because of the perfect storm of bad circumstances.

I'll take the advice of skycop though and adopt a stance of not bothering with the "people who know best".

[jakee 1,254]

jbscout2002

Dude, these aren't "outrageous exaggerations".

Yes it is. Saying that "Cops who wait for you to finish your movement and visually process what is in your hand before making a decision to act and then acting on said decision don't tend to live very long" is an outrageous exaggeration.

Cops, no matter what they do or don't do, tend to live until they leave the force and then live some more after that.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skycop 0]

I've tried to explain this ad-nauseam,
Police work isn't in the top ten of dangerous occupations I agree, HOWEVER there is no other occupation that has the inherent risks that police work has.

Threats conspire and plan to hurt or kill you, machines don't. The human factor.

Dangerous situations can come at ANY TIME, ANY PLACE. While you are eating lunch, while you are at the office, while you are driving around, while you are walking, riding a bicycle or motorcycle, flying in an airplane, while you are driving home, while you are home, at the mall and the list goes on. These are dangers related to police activities, not just the activity listed.

I used to tell recruits that this job is mainly driving around being visible, taking reports, and conducting enforcement activities. When stuff goes bad, it can go bad fast, without warning and they better be able to deal with it by using sound tactics and safety habits.

Like the sign at our DZ said, "you can do everything right, and still end up dead".
Accept that fact, treat people the way you want to be treated, use sound tactics and you should be fine. If you go around your career thinking you are walking the line of death everyday, you'll drive yourself nuts and you should probably look for another job.

I've been in this for almost 30yrs, all on the operational side of the building. Most of my career was spent in the inner-city.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Cops who wait for you to finish your movement and visually process what is in your hand before making a decision to act and then acting on said decision don't tend to live very long.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

Quote

A better way is if the criminal suspect just complies with verbal commands and we stop persecuting the police for any little mistake that is made while trying to subdue an uncooperative criminal. As billvon would say, what is wrong with just obeying the law?

Well, you are already suggesting that cops shouldn't have to obey the law. That when they get it wrong, they should get a pass.

What if the stop wasn't lawful?
What if the subject isn't a criminal?

Always surprised to see that those staunch, Merica Freedom people advocate blind obedience to a police officer.

(Unless of course it is about stupid gun laws, than the local cops are moronic and nobody should have to adhere to them)

[jbscout2002 1]

SkyDekker

Quote

Cops who wait for you to finish your movement and visually process what is in your hand before making a decision to act and then acting on said decision don't tend to live very long.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

***A better way is if the criminal suspect just complies with verbal commands and we stop persecuting the police for any little mistake that is made while trying to subdue an uncooperative criminal. As billvon would say, what is wrong with just obeying the law?

Well, you are already suggesting that cops shouldn't have to obey the law. That when they get it wrong, they should get a pass.

What if the stop wasn't lawful?
What if the subject isn't a criminal?

Always surprised to see that those staunch, Merica Freedom people advocate blind obedience to a police officer.

(Unless of course it is about stupid gun laws, than the local cops are moronic and nobody should have to adhere to them)

You're right. It's all bullshit. Police harassing the masked man running from the bank that has an alarm sounding, going around killing everyone and getting a free pass on it.

Goddamn. You have opened my eyes. We need to lock up all the cops. But wait, with no law and order should we have guns for protection? Oh, yeah, those are illegal so no one will have them.

Fuck, you are a smart dude. Why aren't you president of Merca? Apparently we did away with that natural born citizen requirement. I'll vote for you.

[jbscout2002 1]

Outlaw guns

Legalize meth

Cops are evil

Criminals are misunderstood and murdered for sport

How do we explain this to our kids? - Fuck em, abort them.

Let's do this.


Just a suggestion, it's totally your call, but I'll throw it down and you can pick it up if you like it. Suppose we hold off on outlawing guns, just long enough to thin out the cops a little bit, then we take the guns? Just a thought. I'm with you either way.

[jakee 1,254]

I see you're still busy, uhh, not exaggerating things...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

I see you're still busy, uhh, not exaggerating things...

No, I've sincerely converted to your side.

*Scouts honor*

I would gather up my guns right now and surrender them, but I'm afraid if I open my safe they will attack me

I'm afraid if I call law enforcement to come help me, they will attack me

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

No, I've sincerely converted to your side.

You may have converted, but it's to a side all of your own. No-one here believes that shit, and such gross exaggeration and distortion of the opposing position is, again, why you will only push people further and further away from seeing the merits of your argument

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

Quote

No, I've sincerely converted to your side.

You may have converted, but it's to a side all of your own. No-one here believes that shit, and such gross exaggeration and distortion of the opposing position is, again, why you will only push people further and further away from seeing the merits of your argument

My argument is your argument brother. United we stand. I believe all the shit you've said and support you 100% bro.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

You're right. It's all bullshit. Police harassing the masked man running from the bank that has an alarm sounding, going around killing everyone and getting a free pass on it.

Goddamn. You have opened my eyes. We need to lock up all the cops. But wait, with no law and order should we have guns for protection? Oh, yeah, those are illegal so no one will have them.

Fuck, you are a smart dude. Why aren't you president of Merca? Apparently we did away with that natural born citizen requirement. I'll vote for you.

And more bullshit.

It is nice to deal with somebody who isn't prone to extreme exageration though....

[jbscout2002 1]

SkyDekker

Quote

You're right. It's all bullshit. Police harassing the masked man running from the bank that has an alarm sounding, going around killing everyone and getting a free pass on it.

Goddamn. You have opened my eyes. We need to lock up all the cops. But wait, with no law and order should we have guns for protection? Oh, yeah, those are illegal so no one will have them.

Fuck, you are a smart dude. Why aren't you president of Merca? Apparently we did away with that natural born citizen requirement. I'll vote for you.

And more bullshit.

It is nice to deal with somebody who isn't prone to extreme exageration though....

Oh, that was sincere. No exaggerating required. Skydekker 2016

[jakee 1,254]

jbscout2002

***

Quote

No, I've sincerely converted to your side.

You may have converted, but it's to a side all of your own. No-one here believes that shit, and such gross exaggeration and distortion of the opposing position is, again, why you will only push people further and further away from seeing the merits of your argument

My argument is your argument brother. United we stand. I believe all the shit you've said and support you 100% bro.

Good. So you've had a second conversion and you don't believe all the ridiculous shit that you just said in posts #33 and #34?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

We need to stop this bickering. One team one fight. The war isn't in this forum, with words.

It's out there, in the classrooms, with militarized weapons of mass destruction wielded by mad men with a fascination for instruments, no, shiny, instruments of war.

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

******

Quote

No, I've sincerely converted to your side.

You may have converted, but it's to a side all of your own. No-one here believes that shit, and such gross exaggeration and distortion of the opposing position is, again, why you will only push people further and further away from seeing the merits of your argument

My argument is your argument brother. United we stand. I believe all the shit you've said and support you 100% bro.

Good. So you've had a second conversion and you don't believe all the ridiculous shit that you just said in posts #33 and #34?

I think you are jumping ship on skydekker and me. I was tracking that we were:

Anti gun
Anti police
Pro criminal lead way
Pro legalization of drugs

What happened?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Anti gun
Anti police
Pro criminal lead way
Pro legalization of drugs

Interesting, not really any of those.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

I think you are jumping ship on skydekker and me. I was tracking that we were:

Anti gun
Anti police
Pro criminal lead way
Pro legalization of drugs

What happened?

I think what happened was that you became such an obvious troll that you're no longer interesting.

Bye.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

SkyDekker

Quote

Anti gun
Anti police
Pro criminal lead way
Pro legalization of drugs

Interesting, not really any of those.

Hm, so you are:

Pro gun rights (you are evil and like watching kids die)
Pro police (you think they are above the law and can murder without question)
Anti criminal (they should comply with police orders)
Anti legalization of drugs (people should be arrested for illicit drug abuse)

This is kind of the way you portray "those" people, and this goes against all of your posting history. As your constituent I am not sure I follow your political agenda.

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

Quote

I think you are jumping ship on skydekker and me. I was tracking that we were:

Anti gun
Anti police
Pro criminal lead way
Pro legalization of drugs

What happened?

I think what happened was that you became such an obvious troll that you're no longer interesting.

Bye.

Ok. When you make up your mind what you stand for, We'll be here. Bye.

[billvon 2,384]

Enough with the trolling. Your one warning.

[jbscout2002 1]

I'm trying to give up and agree with you guys, but I can't even keep track of what we are whining about. Seems we don't stand for, or against anything. We just simply pass the time starting arguments.

Have fun.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Hm, so you are:

Pro gun rights (you are evil and like watching kids die)
Pro police (you think they are above the law and can murder without question)
Anti criminal (they should comply with police orders)
Anti legalization of drugs (people should be arrested for illicit drug abuse)

I know this may come us a complete shocker, but there are more options than either for or against.

[billvon 2,384]

>I'm trying to give up and agree with you guys

No, you're not. For the past few posts you have done nothing but try to start fights. If you want to return to your earlier posts where you stated your opinions, feel free. Otherwise, enough.