8 yr old girl shot dead by 11yr old boy

[piisfish 135]

http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/10/04/fatal-shooting/73329258/
Anything wrong here ?
Who is responsible ?
Should the boy have his 2nd amendment rights infriged by having his guns pulled ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[kallend 1,621]

Guns don't kill people.

But children with guns do.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[millertime24 8]

piisfish

http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/10/04/fatal-shooting/73329258/
Anything wrong here ?
Who is responsible ?
Should the boy have his 2nd amendment rights infriged by having his guns pulled ?

I'm going with the parents.

Muff #5048

[mr2mk1g 10]

The girl should have been armed, obviously.

[champu 1]

In California the parents would be facing felony charges (see P.C. 25100 et seq) and I wouldn't have a problem if that law were more widely adopted in the country.

I would also point out, however, that a couple CA city councils (guess which two) have passed ordinances whose purpose is to strike 25105 (a) and (g) from the above code. (And (c) in the original versions but police unions got them to take that out) Ordinarily one might think state law would preempt things like this, but SCOTUS let it stand.

So to recap...

a) something can be done (demonstrably)
b) it is a slippery slope (demonstrably)
c) the second amendment isn't going to stop the slide until you're at the bottom of the hill (demonstrably)

[chedlin 0]

champu

In California the parents would be facing felony charges (see P.C. 25100 et seq) and I wouldn't have a problem if that law were more widely adopted in the country.

Class A misdemeanor (up to 1 year in jail) here in Texas, Sec. 46.13.http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm.

[doog 0]

I can see absolutely no reason why a ten year old shouldn't have full unsupervised access to guns and ammunition.

Oh, excuse me..there is something stuck in my pigs ear..

DOOG
Muff 846
All you people are here to make sure I have a good time.

[turtlespeed 212]

champu

In California the parents would be facing felony charges (see P.C. 25100 et seq) and I wouldn't have a problem if that law were more widely adopted in the country.

I would also point out, however, that a couple CA city councils (guess which two) have passed ordinances whose purpose is to strike 25105 (a) and (g) from the above code. (And (c) in the original versions but police unions got them to take that out) Ordinarily one might think state law would preempt things like this, but SCOTUS let it stand.

So to recap...

a) something can be done (demonstrably)
b) it is a slippery slope (demonstrably)
c) the second amendment isn't going to stop the slide until you're at the bottom of the hill (demonstrably)

Parental units should serve a murder sentence.
But . . . What about the other child, now he needs counseling.
It's difficult. No GOOD answer. Maybe the best answer is jail the parents individually, two weeks at a time alternating.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,384]

>It's difficult. No GOOD answer. Maybe the best answer is jail the parents
>individually, two weeks at a time alternating.

Yep.

Crazy idea here - perhaps figuring out a way to prevent 11 year olds from shooting 8 year olds is a better idea than figuring out how clever ways to jail parents of said 11 year old.

[kallend 1,621]

billvon

>It's difficult. No GOOD answer. Maybe the best answer is jail the parents
>individually, two weeks at a time alternating.

Yep.

Crazy idea here - perhaps figuring out a way to prevent 11 year olds from shooting 8 year olds is a better idea than figuring out how clever ways to jail parents of said 11 year old.

Won't happen.

Nothing happened after V. Tech.
Nothing happened after Colorado.
Nothing happened after Sandy Hook.
Nothing will happen after Oregon (the wagons were circled before the blood was dry).
Nothing will happen after this.

You read a representative subset of the do-nothing folks in this forum.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 1,903]

That is unfortunate. But it's obvious that a few incidents like this pale in the face of the importance of Americans being able to have as much fire power as they want. It's a small price well worth paying.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jbscout2002 1]

piisfish

http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/10/04/fatal-shooting/73329258/
Anything wrong here ?
Who is responsible ?
Should the boy have his 2nd amendment rights infriged by having his guns pulled ?

He has no 2nd Ammendment rights. He is 11. Not legal to possess a firearm. Existing gun laws have were already in place to prevent this. Just like existing laws were already in place to prevent murder.

18 U.S. Code § 1111 - Murder

(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>It's difficult. No GOOD answer. Maybe the best answer is jail the parents
>individually, two weeks at a time alternating.

Yep.

Crazy idea here - perhaps figuring out a way to prevent 11 year olds from shooting 8 year olds is a better idea than figuring out how clever ways to jail parents of said 11 year old.

Perhaps we should concentrate more on parents killing their kids.

the horror!

Or you could just google "child killed in car accident"

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jbscout2002 1]

Murder laws are toothless

Five convicted killers released from jail have murdered again in the past four years, some just weeks after leaving custody, it was revealed today.
Andrew Dawson, George Johnson, Ernest Wright, David Cook and Desmond Lee were only given 'whole life' sentences after committing murder for the second time.

The families of their victims said today 'life should mean life'.
Even some relatives of the killers believe that their family-member should never have been released the first time round.
Convicted murderer Andrew Dawson branded himself the 'Angel of Mercy' after a series of murders.

He was given a life sentence in 1982 after admitting the murder of a 91-year-old Henry Walsh in his flat at Ormskirk, Lancashire, stabbing him a dozen times with bread knife.

Within weeks of his release in 2010, he stabbed defenceless John Matthews and Paul Hancock to death in separate attacks, before leaving their bodies in their bathtubs in Derby.

The 51-year-old told police he felt an 'urge to kill' before knocking on the men's doors in the block of flats, where he also lived, and hacked them to death.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2421724/Revealed-The-murderers-given-life-jail-freed-kill-again.html#ixzz3npRGxjle

#Prison is toothless
#Bread knives kill
#Sissors kill people
#Dressing gown cords kill people
#Fists kill people
#Strangulation kills people
#Releasing murders leads to preventable killings

[yoink 321]

jbscout2002

#Prison is toothless
#Bread knives kill
#Sissors kill people
#Dressing gown cords kill people
#Fists kill people
#Strangulation kills people
#Releasing murders leads to preventable killings

This is such a bullshit argument.

The entire point about firearms is how good they are at their job and that's why they need regulation.
I didn't hear anything about the military giving you guys bread knives when you were deployed to attack your enemies with...

You've said that your guns are securely locked up. These fuckwit parents and others like them are people who are doing your corner the damage. Gun rights advocates should be MORE pissed off than gun control ones in cases like this... They're letting your team down.

That would show a level of sanity which could be a basis for negotiation, but instead all we ever hear is 'it's not the guns fault', or 'ban cars'.

It's like talking with children... I tell you what. You want access to guns. You PROVE to me that you can be responsible with them and that you're serious about making others with them responsible...

[kallend 1,621]

Another killer child with a gun. www.cantonrep.com/article/20151005/NEWS/151009705

Nothing to worry about - no need for any changes. Just collateral damage.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

http://fox17online.com/2015/08/30/trial-begins-monday-for-child-accused-of-stabbing-9-year-old-to-death/

Ther are half a dozen others in the news NOW where a kid has stabbed another kid to death. Cant say it's only guns now can we.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 1,621]

Anvilbrother

http://fox17online.com/2015/08/30/trial-begins-monday-for-child-accused-of-stabbing-9-year-old-to-death/

Ther are half a dozen others in the news NOW where a kid has stabbed another kid to death. Cant say it's only guns now can we.

I can find a few in old news, but only that one recently. Do you have links to the other six that are current news?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jbscout2002 1]

yoink

***
#Prison is toothless
#Bread knives kill
#Sissors kill people
#Dressing gown cords kill people
#Fists kill people
#Strangulation kills people
#Releasing murders leads to preventable killings

This is such a bullshit argument.

The entire point about firearms is how good they are at their job and that's why they need regulation.
I didn't hear anything about the military giving you guys bread knives when you were deployed to attack your enemies with...

You've said that your guns are securely locked up. These fuckwit parents and others like them are people who are doing your corner the damage. Gun rights advocates should be MORE pissed off than gun control ones in cases like this... They're letting your team down.

That would show a level of sanity which could be a basis for negotiation, but instead all we ever hear is 'it's not the guns fault', or 'ban cars'.

It's like talking with children... I tell you what. You want access to guns. You PROVE to me that you can be responsible with them and that you're serious about making others with them responsible...

Guns are good at killing. Logical reasoning would suggest that if you take guns away from law abiding citizens, but criminals still have them, then criminals will have a really efficient way of killing innocent people while innocent people will have no chance of defending themselves. On the plus side, domestic killings with knives will increase while domestic killings with guns may decrease.

In the military we had ground attack aircraft providing close air support, close combat attack aviation (rotary wing), artillery, tanks, belt fed fully automatic grenade launching machine guns (MK 19), shoulder fired anti tank missiles and all the way down to nonleathal rubber bullets in our Mossburg 500 shotguns.

Every gun sold in the U.S. comes from the factory with a trigger lock, slide lock, or action lock included. In my opinion, if you buy a gun, you are responsible for that gun. If your kid shoots himself by accident, it is your fault for allowing the situation to happen. If someone uses your gun in a crime, you are an accessory to that crime.

You hear dumb shit from unarticulated gun people trying to counter dumb shit said by overreacting gun grabbers that are pushing for stuff that messes with my guns, but does nothing to fix he problems surrounding gun violence.

When I buy a gun a PROVE I am responsible when my background check comes back clean of any disqualifying factors, a complete lack of any criminal history beyond a traffic ticket, and my track record of never having failed to maintain positive control of my guns.

[jbscout2002 1]

You will also note that that article was from the UK. The U.K. banned all hand guns and severally restricted most long guns as the result of a school shooting. As a result, the rate of violent crime has increased by 74% and the number one weapon of choice has become the common kitchen knife. There is a group of Doctor advocating to put a ban on long and pointy knives in the UK.

[jbscout2002 1]

Arm all teachers? No

A uniformed police officer assigned duty at the school? Why not
-Teaches kids to respect police
-Deters drugs, fights, bullying
-Builds on very successful community policing model

Make it harder to purchase a gun? No
-Guns are already out there. Ban sales and they are still present

Strict safe storage laws? Yes
-You are held liable for crimes committed by your gun
-People want to sue the manufacturer or FFL dealer because a third part offender used the gun illegally. Trigger locks and slide locks are provided as mandated by law, so make it a law to USE them
-Certain guns, or a certain number of guns should require the use of an approved safe
-Failuremof this resulting in unauthorized use of your gun in a crime is your responsibility. You charges like accessory, criminal negligence, manslaughter. Why do you go to jail for killing someone while driving drunk, but not if your God takes your gun and kills someone else?

Safe ammunition storage? Yes
-Guns require ammo
-Ammo should be locked up separately from the firearms

Your rights guaranteed when your house mate has a mental condition? No.
-If someone in your household has been deemed to be a liability, you can still own firearms, but must keep them stored (properly and with trigger/slide locks)'at a friend or relatives house who is eligible to possess firearms

These are all some solutions that I can think of off the top of my head, that I strongly believe would have prevented at least some of these mass shooters from doing what they did.

They can't legally obtain a gun, and these proposals would have stopped them from getting them in the manner in which they did.

All control measures failing, an armed officer pulling a rotational shit in the school that day (Sandy Hook) could possible have stopped Lanza before he shot his first victim, having been alerted by Lanza shooting his way through the class at the frount door.

All of these are possible solutions the the crazy mass shooter that don't require me to give up anything or jump through any hoops. Therefore, there would be no reason for me to give half a thought of wanting to oppose it.

I use the locks supplied with my guns. I put my ammo in a trunk with a lock on it. If I have a lot of guns I get a safe that protects them from theft and fire and use the safe for family documents and random other crap my wife makes me jam in there.

What would be wrong with any of this?

[jbscout2002 1]

jbscout2002

Arm all teachers? No

A uniformed police officer assigned duty at the school? Why not
-Teaches kids to respect police
-Deters drugs, fights, bullying
-Builds on very successful community policing model

Make it harder to purchase a gun? No
-Guns are already out there. Ban sales and they are still present

Strict safe storage laws? Yes
-You are held liable for crimes committed by your gun
-People want to sue the manufacturer or FFL dealer because a third part offender used the gun illegally. Trigger locks and slide locks are provided as mandated by law, so make it a law to USE them
-Certain guns, or a certain number of guns should require the use of an approved safe
-Failuremof this resulting in unauthorized use of your gun in a crime is your responsibility. You charges like accessory, criminal negligence, manslaughter. Why do you go to jail for killing someone while driving drunk, but not if your God takes your gun and kills someone else?

Safe ammunition storage? Yes
-Guns require ammo
-Ammo should be locked up separately from the firearms

Your rights guaranteed when your house mate has a mental condition? No.
-If someone in your household has been deemed to be a liability, you can still own firearms, but must keep them stored (properly and with trigger/slide locks)'at a friend or relatives house who is eligible to possess firearms

These are all some solutions that I can think of off the top of my head, that I strongly believe would have prevented at least some of these mass shooters from doing what they did.

They can't legally obtain a gun, and these proposals would have stopped them from getting them in the manner in which they did.

All control measures failing, an armed officer pulling a rotational shit in the school that day (Sandy Hook) could possible have stopped Lanza before he shot his first victim, having been alerted by Lanza shooting his way through the class at the frount door.

All of these are possible solutions the the crazy mass shooter that don't require me to give up anything or jump through any hoops. Therefore, there would be no reason for me to give half a thought of wanting to oppose it.

I use the locks supplied with my guns. I put my ammo in a trunk with a lock on it. If I have a lot of guns I get a safe that protects them from theft and fire and use the safe for family documents and random other crap my wife makes me jam in there.

What would be wrong with any of this?

I meant kid and it was autocorrected to God, which is hilarious to me.

These simple laws don't really "restrict" gun rights or gun ownership so the Constitutional argument is kept out of it, I believe.

Also, it would have stopped this 11 from being able to operate a shotgun

[champu 1]

Two things...

1) If someone in your house "has a mental condition" (I would just say, "is a prohibited person") I would suggest firearms can be stored safely away from them without being in another house. I don't think it's substantially different from locking your guns in a safe and not giving your children the combination. If someone is so dangerous that they can't even be near a locked safe with firearms in it, then you need to do more with that person than move the safe farther away.

2) While I agree that, say, storing all your firearms in a safe loaded and with a round chambered is a bad idea, I don't much care for the "ammo locked up separately" requirement while storing (or transporting) firearms idea. This question comes up a lot in CA where someone will ask in a forum, "How should I transport firearms to the range?" And there's always one person who wants to put a cable lock through the action, a trigger lock on there, lock the thing in a hard sided case, wrap the boxes of ammo in packing tape, lock that in another hard sided case, and make two trips. At some point you need to get a grip.

There are pros and cons unrelated to security with storing ammunition in a gun safe with guns but you'll be hard pressed to convince me that taking the ammo out of the safe and putting it behind a padlock 20 ft away, just so that they're separate, makes things more secure.

[NewGuy2005 51]

jbscout2002

Murder laws are toothless

Five convicted killers released from jail have murdered again in the past four years, some just weeks after leaving custody, it was revealed today.

In that case, we should stop locking up murderers.

As a gun enthusiast, I cringe at some of the arguments put forward after events like this.

If the gun community continues to demand that absolutely nothing be done to prevent this sort of thing, each and every time it happens, it will be the gun community that insures that what is ultimately done will be overreaching and excessive.

We can start by admitting that children, people with a history of violence and insane people should not have access to guns.

[blue_bert 0]

jbscout2002

You will also note that that article was from the UK. The U.K. banned all hand guns and severally restricted most long guns as the result of a school shooting. As a result, the rate of violent crime has increased by 74% and the number one weapon of choice has become the common kitchen knife. There is a group of Doctor advocating to put a ban on long and pointy knives in the UK.

Talk about making stuff up! Thats a complete load of bull and i would love to know where you got that stat from?