Another mass shooting...

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

Speaking of ADHD, once you give that person the psychotropic drugs and let him play those games is that you may have the mass murderer trifecta.
Easier than religion camp too.

you sound like Tom cruise.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

Which movie?
Not a fan of his really.

[jtiflyer 0]

kallend

************

Quote

Can you offer one single control measure that could effectively prevent anything from happening?

No, nor is that a realistic expectation. Generally you would look for ways to reduce, not prevent gun crime.

This one I agree with. I just don't think the answer can be found on the far left or far right. My position is that in choosing a side I'm going to protect gun rights because I don't think that stripping them away will solve anything.

There are an estimated 200 million guns in America owned by an estimated 60-65 million people. Personally, I think the real number is twice that much.

If you ban all guns in America, completely disarm the country, and make everything illegal, there are still 200 million guns out there. Most people will not comply, so those guns will be stashed here and there, and steadily people will get caught with them and the prisons will become inundated with otherwise good law abiding people who became a nonviolent criminal over night because they disagreed with a law that violated their constitution.

Even if I played along, my approximately $25k collection of firearms becomes illegal and I just hand it over to be melted down without compensation?

This is a strawman. No-one is seriously suggesting a total gun ban.

There is a lot of middle ground between the totally ineffective system we currently have that fails to keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them (convicted felons, the mentally disturbed), and a total ban. Canada and Australia... have not banned guns, but they do a far better job of preventing gun crime than we do.

The USA has the worst record of gun murders of any first world nation. And that is NOT because Americans are just nastier people than Australians, Brits and Canadians.

And if you REMOVE DETROIT, CHICAGO, NEW ORLEANS, WASHINGTON DC. We drop to almost the bottom of that list. So we should just ban those cities right?? Maybe raze them and start over? Its not a problem of the tools used, its a society and mental health problem.

Incorrect. When comparing rates properly (per 100,000 population), NYC and Chicago don't even make the top 30. Places like Birmingham, KC, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami and Little Rock are far worse.

kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/



and I was speaking as a country. If you remove the numbers from those cities alone, our ranking drops significantly

[jbscout2002 1]

Tomorrow I'm going to go out in the back yard with a .22 and commit a mass shooting on a colony of moles that has been destroying my yard. I'm going to do it in a safe manner, but it is going to be really fun. It will also be environmentally friendly because the alternative is to put poison gas bombs in their holes.

Sometimes I shoot coyotes with an assault rifle at night because they kill my neighbors chickens and harass his livestock. He repays me by letting me deer hunt on his land.

When my in laws come up from NYC, my sister in laws like to shoot. They never held a gun till they met me. They have a blast shooting and are both pretty good at it. My wife is more anti gun than anyone on this forum, but she finally agreed to learn how to shoot a .22 and is a natural. She out shot me and I shot for a living. She still hates guns tho.

My dad is a Nam vet and enjoys shooting Vietnam and WW2 era weapons. He is a big collector. I have AR 15s because they were my lifeline in the military, I use them in competitions, and they are great varmit guns.

None of this for for the purpose of killing people. There is one in my house set aside for that purpose and it is locked up in the night stand. And I live in the middle of no where, so currently it doesn't even need to be there. I live in an area where people don't lock their doors when they go on vacation.

[ryoder 1,381]

jbscout2002

Tomorrow I'm going to go out in the back yard with a .22 and commit a mass shooting on a colony of moles that has been destroying my yard. I'm going to do it in a safe manner, but it is going to be really fun. It will also be environmentally friendly because the alternative is to put poison gas bombs in their holes.

Another alternative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76hJdHHrofE

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jtiflyer 0]

huh gun free country everybody....

yet somehow it still happens

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/parramatta-police-headquarters-site-of-shooting-two-dead/6824320

[lyosha 46]

jtiflyer

*********

Quote

Can you offer one single control measure that could effectively prevent anything from happening?

No, nor is that a realistic expectation. Generally you would look for ways to reduce, not prevent gun crime.

This one I agree with. I just don't think the answer can be found on the far left or far right. My position is that in choosing a side I'm going to protect gun rights because I don't think that stripping them away will solve anything.

There are an estimated 200 million guns in America owned by an estimated 60-65 million people. Personally, I think the real number is twice that much.

If you ban all guns in America, completely disarm the country, and make everything illegal, there are still 200 million guns out there. Most people will not comply, so those guns will be stashed here and there, and steadily people will get caught with them and the prisons will become inundated with otherwise good law abiding people who became a nonviolent criminal over night because they disagreed with a law that violated their constitution.

Even if I played along, my approximately $25k collection of firearms becomes illegal and I just hand it over to be melted down without compensation?

This is a strawman. No-one is seriously suggesting a total gun ban.

There is a lot of middle ground between the totally ineffective system we currently have that fails to keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them (convicted felons, the mentally disturbed), and a total ban. Canada and Australia... have not banned guns, but they do a far better job of preventing gun crime than we do.

The USA has the worst record of gun murders of any first world nation. And that is NOT because Americans are just nastier people than Australians, Brits and Canadians.

And if you REMOVE DETROIT, CHICAGO, NEW ORLEANS, WASHINGTON DC. We drop to almost the bottom of that list. So we should just ban those cities right?? Maybe raze them and start over? Its not a problem of the tools used, its a society and mental health problem.

I don't think that's accurate. If you remove the states that don't have any common sense gun regulation on the books we drop to the bottom of the list.

Gun crime is heavily correlated to "common sense" gun control laws such as background checks. Who would have thought - checking if someone was a criminal before selling them a gun would help deter crime?

[Amazon 7]

[tikl68 6]

Im with you jb. Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT! or quit bitching. Skydekker, humans have been assaulting others humans since before the stone age. If I want what you have or dont like you, I will find a way to harm you and take what i want/or vengence,whether I use a IED, a sharpened stick, a boulder, sarine powder, or like jb said womens under wear.Many people have been strangled with a variety of normal everyday seemingly harmless objects. The gun laws in the UK are very strict. I have a lot of British friends and a lot of them are British military, and I have spent time in the UK, and there are plenty of people in prison for murder, it seems the popular tool over there where guns are NOT accessible is knives. I am a gun owner, my father spent 28 years in the Marine Corps and 15 years as a OC sherrif, and i shoot pretty often at my local gun range and have even done some local competitions, so there are more non LEO gun owners out there, that would have been able to have an effect on lessoning the amount of people dying, if not stopped it all together at many of these incidents, than you think. I have often asked myself, what if I was in one of these situations. And the answer is all ways the same, think and act. Yes there are far too many of these happening and I am all for making it tougher for this kind of shit to happen, but its not about gotta have my gun cuz im an Emurican, its about the government should fear the people not the people fear the government.

And yes skydekker it is legal in Oregon to CCW on the grounds of the public school, but the victims were inside the buildings where it is NOT legal, so obviously criminals dont care what law you make, they are not going to follow them,whether mentally ill, or some POS street criminal. This guy if unable to obtain a gun and was serious about wanting to do this could have just as easily driven his car at full speed into class room or a group of students out side on the campus lawn.
Yes I would have had NO PROBLEM hitting my target in that class room.

[Amazon 7]

jbscout2002

Tomorrow I'm going to go out in the back yard with a .22 and commit a mass shooting on a colony of moles that has been destroying my yard. I'm going to do it in a safe manner, but it is going to be really fun. It will also be environmentally friendly because the alternative is to put poison gas bombs in their holes.

Sometimes I shoot coyotes with an assault rifle at night because they kill my neighbors chickens and harass his livestock. He repays me by letting me deer hunt on his land.

When my in laws come up from NYC, my sister in laws like to shoot. They never held a gun till they met me. They have a blast shooting and are both pretty good at it. My wife is more anti gun than anyone on this forum, but she finally agreed to learn how to shoot a .22 and is a natural. She out shot me and I shot for a living. She still hates guns tho.

My dad is a Nam vet and enjoys shooting Vietnam and WW2 era weapons. He is a big collector. I have AR 15s because they were my lifeline in the military, I use them in competitions, and they are great varmit guns.

None of this for for the purpose of killing people. There is one in my house set aside for that purpose and it is locked up in the night stand. And I live in the middle of no where, so currently it doesn't even need to be there. I live in an area where people don't lock their doors when they go on vacation.

OR Rodenator

[tikl68 6]

Almost forgot thanks for standing on THE WALL devil dog.

[yoink 321]

mpohl

I don't get it.

So, former US Army dude is even too crippled to keep a private msg to himself. Like not even being man enough.

I'd shoot myself if I were disabled as he his mentally. Of course, I don't have gun. Maybe he has.

This poster is not a man.
Even a bitch has more self-respect.

That sound your hearing is any credibility you ever had in this forum disappearing.

You need to stop talking for a while.

[tikl68 6]

True they are meant to kill, but they are also used to feed people by hunting game, and they are also fun as target shooting. I could beat someone to death,(its been done) with a baseball bat, does that mean we should out law baseball. Im all for making it way tougher for doushe nozzles getting their hands on guns illegaly and agree there are cracks in the system, but like jbscout has said hold people accountable for their actions. I store my fire arms in a locked gun safe in a locked garage.

[jbscout2002 1]

yoink

***I don't get it.

So, former US Army dude is even too crippled to keep a private msg to himself. Like not even being man enough.

I'd shoot myself if I were disabled as he his mentally. Of course, I don't have gun. Maybe he has.

This poster is not a man.
Even a bitch has more self-respect.

That sound your hearing is any credibility you ever had in this forum disappearing.

You need to stop talking for a while.

So Mophl is a foreigner who claims to hold American citizenship when there is something he can gain from it, but openly objects to Americas foreign policies, hates services members, wants to take away our constitutional rights, and ostracizes anyone who dare disagree with him?

Why, Mr. President! Please forgive my tone. I was not expecting to find you in a skydiving forum.

[RMK 3]

headoverheels

***

Quote

Yet violent crime and gun crime continues to decrease

And is still orders of magnitude higher than other 1st world countries.

A bit hyperbolic, as that would mean at least 100x.

An order of magnitude would be 10x (this is actually less than the US - Advanced World comparisons). 100x is two orders of magnitude.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Why, Mr. President! Please forgive my tone. I was not expecting to find you in a skydiving forum.

And there goes your credibility

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

Which movie?
Not a fan of his really.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tRXZ0oant6Q

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

Quote

Why, Mr. President! Please forgive my tone. I was not expecting to find you in a skydiving forum.

And there goes your credibility

No more than yours.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[tkhayes 125]

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

Or get your elected representatives to change the laws. That is actually how the system works. your precious Constitution has been amended 27 times, so it is far from perfect and there are even changes to it that you would advocate for I bet.

Tell you what - if you do not like free speech, and/or elected representative govt for and by the people then YOU move out.
At least I earned my citizenship - you took the easy route and were just born here.

[turtlespeed 212]

tkhayes

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

Or get your elected representatives to change the laws. That is actually how the system works. your precious Constitution has been amended 27 times, so it is far from perfect and there are even changes to it that you would advocate for I bet.

Tell you what - if you do not like free speech, and/or elected representative govt for and by the people then YOU move out.
At least I earned my citizenship - you took the easy route and were just born here.

VERY telling wording there TK.

1st paragraph, you say it is "your" constitution, next paragraph you say you earned your citizenship.

Funny thing that. Why bother earning a citizenship and then not claim one of its most basic tenets?

It's allot like you are only here because of the money and opportunity, but really don't want to be here, or at least only tolerate it because there is no better place that you can be.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RMK 3]

tkhayes

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

Or get your elected representatives to change the laws. That is actually how the system works. your precious Constitution has been amended 27 times, so it is far from perfect and there are even changes to it that you would advocate for I bet.

Tell you what - if you do not like free speech, and/or elected representative govt for and by the people then YOU move out.
At least I earned my citizenship - you took the easy route and were just born here.

TK is correct.

I'm always amused by the childish reply "If you don't like it then leave". I did just that. I have no interest in ever living in the US again, nor do I wish to visit often.

It's not difficult. If you see another country/company/person getting a better result; copy them or try something similar.

This "but we're different, we're special" falls on deaf ears for the rest of the industrialised world - you're not special princess.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[jakee 1,254]

turtlespeed

***

Quote

Why, Mr. President! Please forgive my tone. I was not expecting to find you in a skydiving forum.

And there goes your credibility

No more than yours.
Really? What have I said that is more stupid than suggesting the President is a USA hating foreigner?

Please, I'm intrigued

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

My best friend gun nut special forces friend sells me a gun, a transaction should be cleared, required, enforced.
Every single time.
Heavy penalty should be available to the judge but not a silly zero tolerance approach law. Even an inherited piece.
Connecting health records to background checks is nothing more than a few ether net cables.

We have that law here in Colorado now. It doesn't work. It is in-enforceable.

Derek V

[turtlespeed 212]

RMK

***

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

Or get your elected representatives to change the laws. That is actually how the system works. your precious Constitution has been amended 27 times, so it is far from perfect and there are even changes to it that you would advocate for I bet.

Tell you what - if you do not like free speech, and/or elected representative govt for and by the people then YOU move out.
At least I earned my citizenship - you took the easy route and were just born here.

TK is correct.

I'm always amused by the childish reply "If you don't like it then leave". I did just that. I have no interest in ever living in the US again, nor do I wish to visit often.

It's not difficult. If you see another country/company/person getting a better result; copy them or try something similar.

This "but we're different, we're special" falls on deaf ears for the rest of the industrialised world - you're not special princess.

Believe us when we don't disagree with your decision to leave and not come back.

Thing is, I believe and have pride in this country. I know it's not perfect, but it is the best country in the world today.

People that immigrate to this country hen try to change it to the European way of life should take a step back and consider what they are doing.

Those people that earned their citizenship, and those that have come and gone, and criticize this great nation, should maybe take a step back and remember the cost in the form of lives and families it took to create the country they enjoy the fruits of.

What seems to be over looked, if not taken completely for granted, is that a lot of Americans will lay down their lives, and have, to protect the freedom to allow the criticism so generously bandied about. Perhaps a few moments of introspection and attempts at understanding would do well to temper the "holier than thou" attitude a bit.

My guess is that not very many of these people coming in and earning their citizenship, or those crossing the border illegally, would lay their lives down to protect our rights.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

Usually I would agree with you on many things RMK.... BUT.....You have not met Turtle on the boogie circuit have you... he is a very "special" little princess.




Note to Bill....

not a PA... just in case you are not fully awake yet