ryoder 1,381 #1 September 25, 2015 "Zero tolerance" idiocy at it's finest. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3248409/Teen-comes-defense-blind-classmate-beaten-school-bully-suspended.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #2 September 25, 2015 I saw this yesterday and it got my blood boiling! He stopped a battery of a blind person in progress. The pussification of America continues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycatcher68 7 #3 September 26, 2015 You do realize you're quoting the Daily Mail, right? It's a British tabloid that's worse than the National Enquirer. According to the school district the kid was never suspended or kicked off the football team. He hasn't been on the team for a year.What if the Bible had been written by Stephen King? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #4 September 26, 2015 One dumb ass school principal. One dumb ass school district superintendent. Another dumb ass public school identified. More dumb ass logic in use. Ugh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #5 September 26, 2015 BoomerdogOne dumb ass school principal. One dumb ass school district superintendent. Another dumb ass public school identified. More dumb ass logic in use. Ugh!Really? Because a little Google investigation (also here and here) reveals that the kid who intervened was never suspended, he has attended school every day this week, he was not kicked off the football team, and in fact he has not been on the team since last spring. I would suggest that the only "dumb asses" here are those people who chose to accept uncritically a "news" story (from a notoriously unreliable source) that conformed to their pre-existing biases. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #6 September 26, 2015 And I would submit that the dumb asses I cited sure as hell wanted to suspend that kid who defended the blind student and they were talking about it behind closed doors in private conversation. But given the fact that 43,000 signatures on a petition (as the press reports) in support of this kid and the fact that the police did not file charges against him would have them looking more like dumb asses. Dumb ass is as dumb ass does and in public education, we're seeing too much of it. THAT's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #7 September 26, 2015 Boomerdog And I would submit that the dumb asses I cited sure as hell wanted to suspend that kid who defended the blind student and they were talking about it behind closed doors in private conversation. But given the fact that 43,000 signatures on a petition (as the press reports) in support of this kid and the fact that the police did not file charges against him would have them looking more like dumb asses. Dumb ass is as dumb ass does and in public education, we're seeing too much of it. THAT's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! And you were privy to these "behind closed doors" conversations? I suspect not, but feel free to correct me if you were actually there and heard the discussion. I rather suspect that 43,000 people were punked into signing an unnecessary and irrelevant petition because they, like you, were all too ready to substitute their prejudiced view of the world for actual reality. Why bother to find out what really happened when the ignorant rumor fits your narrow minded view of the way things should be so much better? Oh yeah, Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #8 September 26, 2015 GeorgiaDon ***And I would submit that the dumb asses I cited sure as hell wanted to suspend that kid who defended the blind student and they were talking about it behind closed doors in private conversation. But given the fact that 43,000 signatures on a petition (as the press reports) in support of this kid and the fact that the police did not file charges against him would have them looking more like dumb asses. Dumb ass is as dumb ass does and in public education, we're seeing too much of it. THAT's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! And you were privy to these "behind closed doors" conversations? I suspect not, but feel free to correct me if you were actually there and heard the discussion. I rather suspect that 43,000 people were punked into signing an unnecessary and irrelevant petition because they, like you, were all too ready to substitute their prejudiced view of the world for actual reality. I know right? School admins never do stupid shit when it comes to threats like water guns/balloons, rubber bands, clocks, etc...why would they act any differently when it came to knocking the shit out of someone?Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #9 September 26, 2015 BYW the only reason I care about this specific story is that it is a perfect little example of why this country is so screwed up, politically speaking: it seems much of what passes for "political discourse" is just emotion-driven gut reactions to blatant falsehoods, or at best outrageous stretching of the truth. It has become far too easy to manipulate people into supporting some policy, because so many people have abandoned any semblance of critical thinking. It's all about stimulus/response now, when it should be "what is the evidence to support what you say?", or "what is your alternative position, and why is it better?". This silly little story about zero tolerance in schools, which turns out to have zero basis in reality, is cut from the same cloth as the current flap about Planned Parenthood. An organization with a well known history of producing highly misleading "hit jobs" gets some undercover video, cuts it up and rearranges it (amply supplemented with extraneous stock footage that has nothing to do with Planned Parenthood), adds in a "transcript" that is embellished with large amounts of wholly made up dialogue, and voila: "proof" that Planned Parenthood exists only to harvest and sell baby parts to would-be Dr. Frankensteins. It doesn't matter that every technical analysis (here, here, and here for examples of reporting on the issue) shows the videos to have been extensively manipulated to create a misleading impression of what was actually said by Planned Parenthood staff. The lie has become "reality" to a lot of people, because the lie reflects their bias and actual reality does not. Now we see every single Republican candidate for President calling for de-funding Planned Parenthood, and not one of those people care a whit that they have been completely manipulated. Neither do they care that de-funding Planned Parenthood would remove access to birth control for thousands of women, likely resulting in many unplanned pregnancies and many abortions, or that it would remove access to screening for STDs and breast cancer. On issue after issue, it seems the majority of people, and virtually all politicians, have no interest in challenging their preconceived notions by asking for evidence. While those at either extreme of the political spectrum seem to be especially susceptible to this, it also seems almost the entirety of the Republican party faithful are afflicted. I suspect this is a direct result for their disdain for higher education and contempt for people who have actually invested the time to develop expertise in any discipline other than sports. Even bacteria are capable of stimulus/response. It's no way to run a country. We need leaders, and indeed a public, that is not too lazy to ask critical questions before making policy. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #10 September 26, 2015 BoomerdogOne dumb ass school principal. One dumb ass school district superintendent. Another dumb ass public school identified. More dumb ass logic in use. Ugh! Like this - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/school-suspends-girl-8-over-wrong-shade-of-green_56057aa5e4b0dd8503074d65?cps=gravity_2425_5703247363001507045I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #11 September 26, 2015 Boomerdog And I would submit that the dumb asses I cited sure as hell wanted to suspend that kid who defended the blind student and they were talking about it behind closed doors in private conversation. But given the fact that 43,000 signatures on a petition (as the press reports) in support of this kid and the fact that the police did not file charges against him would have them looking more like dumb asses. Dumb ass is as dumb ass does and in public education, we're seeing too much of it. THAT's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! My personal experience with "Zero-Tolerance" confirmed to me that at least some of these "dumbasses" are indeed dumbasses. About 10 years ago my kid was in 2nd or 3rd grade ...around 8 years old. I'm working in another town and I get a call from the school to pick my son up and take him home. When I get to the office and ask what happened, I was told that he got into an argument and shoved another kid. I look around and ask where the other kid is. I'm told that he is in class. It seems that the teacher only turned around in time to see my son push the other kid. ...in retaliation, I find out later. So off to the office he goes. Since the teacher didn't personally see the other kid strike my kid, he isn't reprimanded or punished. They say their ZT policy WRT violence requires them to send the "offender" home. I asked if there were other witnesses and was told that though other kids in class saw what happened, only the teacher's direct observation would be considered. So it seems that their Zero-Tolerance policy isn't really "Zero". There is at least some tolerance for kids who violate their policy but are not directly caught by someone in "authority". Now I'm getting a little pissed and told the Principal that I was going to formally file an assault charge against the other kid. After talking with my son, I believed there were other witnesses who would confirm his story. They smugly informed me that their policy is to handle these things internally and that their decision was final. I then told them that we appear to have a conflict of policies and that I was pretty sure that assault was not only against their policy, but also against the law, and that they could expect a visit from a Deputy Sheriff. The discussion became more reasonable and we talked for a good while about ZT policy and how it can be applied and enforced fairly, and allowing kids to defend themselves or work out their problems. I'm pretty sure they were humoring me, but we finally agreed to let him go back to class and to forget the whole incident. And, they, of course, continue (AFAIK, to this day) with their ridiculous "policy". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #12 September 26, 2015 Congratulations and bravo. You are a classic example of standing up to these dumbass pajama boys and pajama girls! Take a bow! You got back in their face. THAT's what you do with bullies errr public school bureaucrats! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #13 September 26, 2015 From the original subject to Planned Parenthood. My gawd man, you are ALL OVER the Ouija Board! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #14 September 26, 2015 Quote And you were privy to these "behind closed doors" conversations? I suspect not, but feel free to correct me if you were actually there and heard the discussion. EXACTAMUNDO oh wise one. It's a WAG on my part. Bam ya got me cold. On the other hand, I've spent way too many years in government i.e. DoD and been part of many back room discussions making sensitive decisions on issues and I've had to observe a shit load of human behavior even my own. After 33 years of it, I might not get it completely right on human behavior with respect to backbiting pajama boy/girl bureaucrats, but in the end, I'd probably come out ahead in betting on the predictability of their behavior. Quote I rather suspect that 43,000 people were punked into signing an unnecessary and irrelevant petition because... And you have proof of your suspicions? My submission (which are by their very nature and my admission suspicions) bad, you're suspicions good? Hmmm...you see anything wrong with this picture? From this to little boys getting suspended for eating a pop-tart into a gun. Is it possible contemporary educators have a potential genetic predisposition for dumb ass? Do we have a research paper here? Perhaps it could be titled: "On the Genetic Predisposition of Self Inflicted Posterior Ignorance In The National Education Community." Submit the grant proposal to NSF...these days ya just might get it approved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #15 September 26, 2015 Boomerdog Quote And you were privy to these "behind closed doors" conversations? I suspect not, but feel free to correct me if you were actually there and heard the discussion. EXACTAMUNDO oh wise one. It's a WAG on my part. Bam ya got me cold. On the other hand, I've spent way too many years in government i.e. DoD and been part of many back room discussions making sensitive decisions on issues and I've had to observe a shit load of human behavior even my own. After 33 years of it, I might not get it completely right on human behavior with respect to backbiting pajama boy/girl bureaucrats, but in the end, I'd probably come out ahead in betting on the predictability of their behavior. Quote I rather suspect that 43,000 people were punked into signing an unnecessary and irrelevant petition because... And you have proof of your suspicions? My submission (which are by their very nature and my admission suspicions) bad, you're suspicions good? Hmmm...you see anything wrong with this picture? From this to little boys getting suspended for eating a pop-tart into a gun. Is it possible contemporary educators have a potential genetic predisposition for dumb ass? Do we have a research paper here? Perhaps it could be titled: "On the Genetic Predisposition of Self Inflicted Posterior Ignorance In The National Education Community." Submit the grant proposal to NSF...these days ya just might get it approved. It would help if he was an illegal immigrant.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #16 September 27, 2015 So in the end you have nothing but your biased assumptions and stereotypes. Regarding the petition, the kid was never suspended and he took himself off the football team last spring. That's not an assumption, it is a fact. The petition addressed a problem that never existed. You, and everyone who signed the petition, believed the story without a minimal effort at fact checking. What could account for that, other than that the story appealed to your biased view and so what actually happened is irrelevant? Of course, straw men are much easier to attack than reality; real life tends to be so complicated and messy. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #17 September 27, 2015 QuoteSo in the end you have nothing but your biased assumptions and stereotypes. AS DO YOU! Take a look...a very good and long look in the mirror! P.S. Now's a good time to write that grant proposal. The end of the Fiscal Year is in three days and there's a better than even chance the NSF has a bunch of $$$ it wants to get out the door fast. Whaddya have to lose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #18 September 27, 2015 Why do you keep ignoring Don's point that the school's "response" addressed by the petition didn't exist? The whole story is a lie. That's not an assumption on Don's part, that's reality. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #19 September 28, 2015 DanGWhy do you keep ignoring Don's point that the school's "response" addressed by the petition didn't exist? The whole story is a lie. That's not an assumption on Don's part, that's reality. Because it would mean admitting that Don is right. As he is. About this situation, and about the PP situation. Which are strikingly similar. One is an inflammatory, demonstrably false accusation of wrongdoing by an institution known for perpetuating lies to gain publicity and further it's agenda... And so is the other."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #20 September 28, 2015 GeorgiaDonBYW the only reason I care about this specific story is that it is a perfect little example of why this country is so screwed up, politically speaking Ya, never mind those who punch blind kids in the face...much easier to just exploit and twist it into blanketed jabs against republicans... GeorgiaDonit seems much of what passes for "political discourse" is just emotion-driven gut reactions to blatant falsehoods, or at best outrageous stretching of the truth. It has become far too easy to manipulate people into supporting some policy, because so many people have abandoned any semblance of critical thinking. It's all about stimulus/response now, when it should be "what is the evidence to support what you say?", or "what is your alternative position, and why is it better?". I agree...much like liberals shouting bigotry every time a black man is inconvenienced or an arab gets reprimanded for bringing a fake bomb to school. It's similar to how liberals were flipping out about how the Texas board of education was supposedly proposing that textbooks teach kids how dinosaurs were on Noah's arc - but it was never a real proposal. It was just an emotion-driven gut reaction to PBS editing putting words in the mouth of some guy on the board. GeorgiaDonThis silly little story about zero tolerance in schools, which turns out to have zero basis in reality, is cut from the same cloth as the current flap about Planned Parenthood. An organization with a well known history of producing highly misleading "hit jobs" gets some undercover video, cuts it up and rearranges it (amply supplemented with extraneous stock footage that has nothing to do with Planned Parenthood), adds in a "transcript" that is embellished with large amounts of wholly made up dialogue... I haven't watched the videos, but what leads you to believe that the whistle blower was embellishing and making up dialogue? You don't even mention O'Donnell's name...talk about manipulative. GeorgiaDonIt doesn't matter that every technical analysis (here, here, and here for examples of reporting on the issue) shows the videos to have been extensively manipulated to create a misleading impression of what was actually said by Planned Parenthood staff. The lie has become "reality" to a lot of people, because the lie reflects their bias and actual reality does not. Now we see every single Republican candidate for President calling for de-funding Planned Parenthood, and not one of those people care a whit that they have been completely manipulated. Neither do they care that de-funding Planned Parenthood would remove access to birth control for thousands of women, likely resulting in many unplanned pregnancies and many abortions, or that it would remove access to screening for STDs and breast cancer. There is certainly evidence to raise a concern and it should be investigated. Hopefully this will keep PP in check and they can continue to provide legitimate services - but if it's found that they're breaking the law and/or harvesting organs in the manner described, then they are the ones responsible for the lack of integrity and all those negatively affected by the consequences of it - something that persistently seems to elude the liberal mindset - accountability. Edit: GeorgiaDonWhile those at either extreme of the political spectrum seem to be especially susceptible to this, it also seems almost the entirety of the republican party faithful are afflicted. Btw, wtf does that mean, lol - the entirety of a few including the indifferent?Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #21 September 28, 2015 GeorgiaDon ***And I would submit that the dumb asses I cited sure as hell wanted to suspend that kid who defended the blind student and they were talking about it behind closed doors in private conversation. But given the fact that 43,000 signatures on a petition (as the press reports) in support of this kid and the fact that the police did not file charges against him would have them looking more like dumb asses. Dumb ass is as dumb ass does and in public education, we're seeing too much of it. THAT's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! And you were privy to these "behind closed doors" conversations? I suspect not, but feel free to correct me if you were actually there and heard the discussion. I rather suspect that 43,000 people were punked into signing an unnecessary and irrelevant petition because they, like you, were all too ready to substitute their prejudiced view of the world for actual reality. Why bother to find out what really happened when the ignorant rumor fits your narrow minded view of the way things should be so much better? Oh yeah, Don why be so arrogant and condescending? I would almost call this a personal attack...If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #22 September 28, 2015 GeorgiaDonBYW the only reason I care about this specific story is that it is a perfect little example of why this country is so screwed up, politically speaking: it seems much of what passes for "political discourse" is just emotion-driven gut reactions to blatant falsehoods, or at best outrageous stretching of the truth. It has become far too easy to manipulate people into supporting some policy, because so many people have abandoned any semblance of critical thinking. It's all about stimulus/response now, when it should be "what is the evidence to support what you say?", or "what is your alternative position, and why is it better?". This silly little story about zero tolerance in schools, which turns out to have zero basis in reality, is cut from the same cloth as the current flap about Planned Parenthood. An organization with a well known history of producing highly misleading "hit jobs" gets some undercover video, cuts it up and rearranges it (amply supplemented with extraneous stock footage that has nothing to do with Planned Parenthood), adds in a "transcript" that is embellished with large amounts of wholly made up dialogue, and voila: "proof" that Planned Parenthood exists only to harvest and sell baby parts to would-be Dr. Frankensteins. It doesn't matter that every technical analysis (here, here, and here for examples of reporting on the issue) shows the videos to have been extensively manipulated to create a misleading impression of what was actually said by Planned Parenthood staff. The lie has become "reality" to a lot of people, because the lie reflects their bias and actual reality does not. Now we see every single Republican candidate for President calling for de-funding Planned Parenthood, and not one of those people care a whit that they have been completely manipulated. Neither do they care that de-funding Planned Parenthood would remove access to birth control for thousands of women, likely resulting in many unplanned pregnancies and many abortions, or that it would remove access to screening for STDs and breast cancer. On issue after issue, it seems the majority of people, and virtually all politicians, have no interest in challenging their preconceived notions by asking for evidence. While those at either extreme of the political spectrum seem to be especially susceptible to this, it also seems almost the entirety of the Republican party faithful are afflicted. I suspect this is a direct result for their disdain for higher education and contempt for people who have actually invested the time to develop expertise in any discipline other than sports. Even bacteria are capable of stimulus/response. It's no way to run a country. We need leaders, and indeed a public, that is not too lazy to ask critical questions before making policy. Don so republicans don't get degrees or diplomas?If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #23 September 28, 2015 QuoteI haven't watched the videos, but what leads you to believe that the whistle blower was embellishing and making up dialogue? Because multiple independent researchers have shown this to be the case. The research has been cited repeatedly in the PP thread, recently by kallend. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #24 September 28, 2015 Quotewhy be so arrogant and condescending? I would almost call this a personal attack...I think your hearing aid might be broken. You only seem to hear one side of every discussion. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #25 September 28, 2015 GeorgiaDonQuotewhy be so arrogant and condescending? I would almost call this a personal attack...I think your hearing aid might be broken. You only seem to hear one side of every discussion. Don Pot, meet kettle.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
