normiss 763 #626 November 23, 2015 We don't yet know that much in this case as the city has tried their best to cover it up and refuse to release information. Complete opposite of what should be a transparent reporting of facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,898 #627 November 23, 2015 >The training I provided was to use one syllable, either 'freeze!' or 'halt!' as you >prefer. >If they turn and run away while their hands in plain sight, let them go. But . . . but . . . they might be _about_ to go for a gun. Those cops just want to go home to their families. Why do you hate them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,495 #628 November 24, 2015 winsor***>"But even the city's attorney has said McDonald was walking away when he was shot." But he might have turned around and charged them. You never know. The training I provided was to use one syllable, either 'freeze!' or 'halt!' as you prefer. If they turn and run away while their hands in plain sight, let them go. If they turn away and you lose sight of either hand such that they could be reaching for something, shoot to stop. You can not afford to find out if they were reaching for a cell phone, a pocket bible, a Lorcin 9mm - or they just had an itch they wanted to scratch - if they then turn around. The whole Michael Brown thing is nonsense. The fact that he was not armed is immaterial - if Dick Butkus (or his modern equivalent) was coming at me with malice and aforethought, while ignoring the threat of lethal force in the process, I would be impressed if he could be dropped before ripping me apart. I have one advantage that the cop in Ferguson did not - I can ethically run away as rapidly as possible. I could then call 911, and the cop who responded would not have that option. Of all the cops I know, not one does not dread having to resort to lethal force, and those who have had to do so have nightmares about it. When unsuccessfully attacking an armed individual, the cause of death is effectively suicide. Give it a rest. BSBD, Winsor The above is very true. FWIW, I believe the MB shoot in Ferguson was pretty clearly justified. It was the behavior of the cops after that was abhorrent. Both in the immediate aftermath of the shooting and in the releasing information that turned out to be blatant lies. And I think the video from Chicago would show pretty clearly what happened. If the cop's story is true and accurate, then the video would exonerate him. If not... It would explain why they don't want the video to see the light of day. It is possible that the video won't show anything conclusive in either way, but the failure to release any video makes it look like the cops are trying to hide something. There's a similar situation up in Minnesota. Unarmed black male shot by police. Cops claim he had grabbed an officer's gun. Video from an ambulance and possible surveillance video from buildings in the area will not be released. FBI & local cops aren't going to. Governor says "It doesn't show anything conclusive" and everyone is supposed to trust him. Yeah, right. http://www.fox9.com/news/53500509-story"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #629 November 24, 2015 It seems even if there is video and it doesn't go the way the mob wants, it doesn't matter. QuoteVideos: Footage captures moments before, after controversial Mo. shootout Police released body cam videos in the controversial shootout that left one 18-year-old dead Today at 12:29 PM By Christine Byers St. Louis Post-Dispatch CLAYTON, Mo. — St. Louis County police released on Thursday a Ferguson officer’s body camera footage from the day they say an 18-year-old shot himself during an encounter with police in Normandy. The footage does not show the moment on Oct. 28 when police say Amonderez Green turned his revolver on himself, but it shows officers initially approaching Green near a playground and telling him they want to make sure he’s OK. Green appears irritated that officers are stopping him, saying at one point, “I’m not doing anything illegal.” Related Articles Videos surface after Normandy man's fatal shootout with Mo. police Autopsy: Teen has gunshot wound under chin after shootout with Mo. cops Related content sponsored by Green continues walking while the officer with the camera stays and talks with other officers. In a second video, Green can be seen lying on a lawn. An officer is heard telling other arriving officers that he saw Green fire shots from a revolver that is seen a few feet away from his body. The officer says he kicked the gun away from Green after Green shot himself under the chin. At one point, the officer tells the others, “FYI, we’re live,” and another says, “Damn, dude, that was close.” The video was released by St. Louis County police, who are handling the investigation of the shooting. The incident began when a Ferguson police lieutenant driving south in the 5800 block of Bermuda Drive was contacted about 2 p.m. by a resident who reported Green, who was walking in the area, to be possibly suicidal, police said. The scene was near the Normandy-Ferguson city line. Normandy and Ferguson officers followed Green into a neighborhood and tried talking to him in a front yard in the 7700 block of Ellington Drive, police said. Green was uncooperative, pulled a silver revolver from his waistband and began firing at the officers, authorities said. A Normandy officer used a stun gun on Green, but it wasn’t effective, according to police. The Normandy officer fired three gunshots at Green but missed, police said. Green ran, fleeing through backyards into the 7700 block of Paddington Drive. Green fired an additional shot at officers while they were chasing after him. Officers lost sight of him and heard another gunshot, police said. None of that is shown in the Ferguson body camera videos released Thursday because it involved Normandy officers, who do not have body cameras, according to St. Louis County Sgt. Brian Schellman. Officers found Green on the ground and began giving first aid, according to Normandy police. Police said none of the Normandy officer’s shots had hit Green. An autopsy conducted on Green showed he sustained one self-inflicted gunshot wound under the chin, St. Louis County police said. The bullet recovered during the autopsy showed the round had been fired from a .38-caliber revolver, police said. Police found a .38-caliber revolver with Green’s body, and ballistics matched the bullet that killed Green to that gun. Forensic testing found his DNA on the gun but no usable fingerprints for comparison. Police said the gun contained four spent shell casings and two live rounds. Three nearby homes were hit by gunfire, and ballistic tests on one of the bullets that hit one of the homes matched the gun Green was carrying. Relatives and people who said they witnessed the incident challenged the police version of events. Some said he was shot by officers. Schellman said the video clips were unaltered and were the complete versions of the footage they received from Ferguson police as part of the St. Louis County police investigation. On Thursday, Green’s mother, Lakea Green, said the videos did not change her belief that her son had been killed by police. She questioned why police didn’t release video from the start of the incident to the end. “I believe they left information out, and I feel there’s more to it,” Lakea Green, 38, said. “The video proves nothing.” She and her fiancé, Anthony Cosentino, asked witnesses to step forward. “Take a stand against police violence,” Cosentino, 29, urged. Green’s father said he hadn’t seen the video released by police. He said he didn’t want to see it. “I don’t trust that or anything,” Jermell Simpson said. “They can alter anything they are doing. I want to see the truth.” He said he was nearby during the incident and knows what happened. “The video is in my head,” he said. Simpson said the day that his son died, he was told that officers did not have on body cameras. He said he has an attorney but declined to say who was representing his family. “I’m not disclosing any information,” he said. “I’ve been advised not to say anything.” Schellman said St. Louis County police released all of the footage that Ferguson provided and did so only after determining that it would not compromise the investigation and after informing the family. “Our detectives have to dissect the video, and once they feel the video will not compromise the case going forward, we will release the video,” Schellman said. “We had requests for the video, and we want to be as transparent as possible.” Ferguson Spokesman Jeff Small was unsure if more footage existed and said he did not know why there were two video clips. The body cameras used by Ferguson police can be turned on and off by officers. Coypright 2015 the St. Louis Post-Dispatch "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 763 #630 November 24, 2015 I had an interesting interaction with our local PD this evening. 5 different officers actually. As I arrived home I noticed 4 young men UPS box shopping down our street. 3 stayed on the sidewalk while one approached my elderly neighbors porch. That was the first alarm. WTD is he going there for? So I walk to where I can see better and he's sitting on her bench trying to get the contents of her box. Turned out it was needed medication but nothing street worthy. I guess he saw me eye balling him so he g heads towards his buddies and the walk away unrushed. 911 and go check on the neighbor. She's clueless. Then sees the box. I finish with 911 telling the lady on the phone I'm following them to take a pic. She actually said "OK then". Then tells me where they are because a car just called it in and had them. I roll up and just wait, cop nods nods at me, 3 units roll up. Officer comes over to chat. Camera! Right there on his shirt. Awesome. To shorten this up, they were trespassed for the neighborhood and I took a picture of them to share. Nothing taken so no crime. Seen around here again they will go to jail. I'm betting they end up there anyway. Bunch of cool cops though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #631 November 24, 2015 As goes 99.9% of police contacts, I've had thousands of them................. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #632 November 24, 2015 When did opening someone else's Mail stop being a crime? 18 U.S.C. § 1708 : US Code - Section 1708: Theft or receipt of stolen mail matter generally - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/83/1708#sthash.DcB5jxgT.dpuf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #633 November 24, 2015 By definition yes, easily enforced no. It's all about allocating resources and time, from what he described the response suited both. Unless of course you carry a postal inspector with you........... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #634 November 24, 2015 normiss I finish with 911 telling the lady on the phone I'm following them to take a pic. Did they have skittles?Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #635 November 24, 2015 Call the local post master at the nearest office, you have a witness already. They will call the postal inspector. They are hard up for that shit my friends mom is a mail carrier and tells us how strict and easy they pounce on people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 763 #636 November 24, 2015 Reading comprehension matters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #637 November 24, 2015 Quote Call the local post master at the nearest office, you have a witness already. They will call the postal inspector. They are hard up for that shit my friends mom is a mail carrier and tells us how strict and easy they pounce on people. If you had an organized ring of people doing this exclusively, or a house full of stuff then yes, that is viable option. BUT a couple street criminals, looking in packages prolly to get things to sell to by a rock or heroin, the feds won't touch that. The Postal Inspectors are good guys, but they also have to prioritize. I did get to do some pretty high speed stuff with them years ago. Some people are stupid enough to mail/ship large amounts of dope. We did one where they had the box wired from the inside, it alerted when it was opened and that was the signal to hit the door. Good times............. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #638 November 24, 2015 normissReading comprehension matters. Ooh how is that ole king of the comebacks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #639 November 24, 2015 Can confirm mom works for post office. It might be regional but here there are plenty of inspectors and they even ride undercover behind mail vehicles and evaluate them personally time to time. They seem to have an abundance of them in our area. We have had them add themselves to calls where we charged some kids with simple criminal damage to property for knocking mailboxes down with baseball bats in the middle of the night. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 763 #640 November 24, 2015 What in the world could the United States Postal Service do to assist me with the theft of a private business shipping service item? Again, reading comprehension actually matters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #641 November 24, 2015 Quote We have had them add themselves to calls where we charged some kids with simple criminal damage to property for knocking mailboxes down with baseball bats in the middle of the night. Thank goodness that wasn't the case where I grew up, in small towns you have to make your own fun...........play ball............ "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #642 November 24, 2015 wolfriverjoebut the failure to release any video makes it look like the cops are trying to hide something. most communities have policies/laws to not release this type of stuff at all for the privacy of all involved. AND especially if a court case is pending - again, to keep from public bias and abuse of the info. It comes out later maybe. The press understands this most of the time. So when it's brought up as some kind of "what are the hiding?" message, it's really just a constructed gotcha kind of thing. It's a no win for the cops and the courts. So we want public servants to follow the processes, right up until we don't. Perhaps we should just release all names and addresses of anyone that's even slightly a suspect in any situation - and of course cops names from any altercation of any kind, that would make it much easier for mobs to go kill them and hurt their families - maybe it'll get a few votes for local politicians - totally worth it. Of course, no need for a policy there - we have social media now to do that. All it takes is trust that citizens and/or cops NEVER falsely accuse someone of anything. Certainly due process is a serious waste of time and cost. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #643 November 24, 2015 normiss What in the world could the United States Postal Service do to assist me with the theft of a private business shipping service item? Again, reading comprehension actually matters. No your ignorance of how it all works is what matters here. http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/type-pi-%E2%80%94-us-postal-inspectors-%E2%80%94-delivers-goods Quote That doesn’t just apply to parcels sent by the U.S. Postal Service — federal statute gives them jurisdiction to investigate when suspect items are sent via private carriers like FedEx and United Parcel Service. The U.S. Postal "system" exists beyond the actual delivery by USPS to your house. The "system" includes places where mail is stored such as, mailboxes, bins, or any other location commonly used to place mail. As well as different carriers such as FexEX and UPS. You probably did not know that USPS delivers amazon prime only on sundays, and that private carriers(fedex UPS) deliver overflow FOR the USPS every day. http://www.criminal-lawyers-miami.com/lawyer-attorney-1570582.html Quote In order for a mail fraud case to be prosecuted successfully the government must prove that the activity was in fact some type of scheme using the Postal Service to defraud victims. Also, the defendant accused of such a crime must have the specific intent of defrauding a victim in such a case. Finally, it must be shown that the subject in the case used the U. S. Postal Service or commercial couriers such as FedEx etc. which have been included in the federal law. And to the other poster you are right it is such a small issue that it wasn't really necessary to involve the USPIS but it could have been available if this was a higher level of crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,935 #644 November 24, 2015 rehmwa All it takes is trust that citizens and/or cops NEVER falsely accuse someone of anything. Certainly due process is a serious waste of time and cost. Trust needs to be earned. It doesn't come automatically with a contract of employment.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 763 #645 November 24, 2015 cvfd1399When did opening someone else's Mail stop being a crime? 18 U.S.C. § 1708 : US Code - Section 1708: Theft or receipt of stolen mail matter generally - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/83/1708#sthash.DcB5jxgT.dpuf Can you comprehend what you wrote the first time? Postal Inspectors do not investigate UPS package thefts either. USPS has zero involvement. Per the USPIS: "External Crime & Violent Crime Teams: The External Crimes Function of USPIS is a function that investigates any theft of US mail by non employees, assaults of postal employees and theft and robberies of postal property. This function also investigates robberies of postal employees and postal facilities, burglaries of postal facilities, and assaults and murders against postal employees. This investigative function focuses on ensuring that the sanctity and trust in the U.S. Mail system is maintained." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #646 November 24, 2015 kallend*** All it takes is trust that citizens and/or cops NEVER falsely accuse someone of anything. Certainly due process is a serious waste of time and cost. Trust needs to be earned. It doesn't come automatically with a contract of employment. exactly - but the real comment is about process for exactly that reason - and the process is to protect both sides of the line from abuse and overreaction ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #647 November 24, 2015 normiss***When did opening someone else's Mail stop being a crime? 18 U.S.C. § 1708 : US Code - Section 1708: Theft or receipt of stolen mail matter generally - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/83/1708#sthash.DcB5jxgT.dpuf Can you comprehend what you wrote the first time? Postal Inspectors do not investigate UPS package thefts either. USPS has zero involvement. Per the USPIS: "External Crime & Violent Crime Teams: The External Crimes Function of USPIS is a function that investigates any theft of US mail by non employees, assaults of postal employees and theft and robberies of postal property. This function also investigates robberies of postal employees and postal facilities, burglaries of postal facilities, and assaults and murders against postal employees. This investigative function focuses on ensuring that the sanctity and trust in the U.S. Mail system is maintained." Lmfao. Did you make a mistake and accidentally copied something you did not mean to because your last post provided no credible information to prove what you are trying to say. Follow my lead, I posted two different sources that show they can investigate and have federal authority and jurisdiction. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 763 #648 November 24, 2015 On damn near anything except the theft of non USPS packages. Copied directly from USPIS. Both of your puppets are incorrect sir. It's amazing how different my reality yesterday was from the internets. Carry on. I have beer and supplies to pick up. My special order beers have arrived. NOM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 763 #649 November 24, 2015 Shit just got real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #650 November 24, 2015 normissShit just got real I'm a bit confused after watching the video.... what were the race of the cop and the teenager? then didn't seem to highlight that enough ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites