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RMK

WTF is wrong with American police?

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JerryBaumchen

Hi cvfd,

Quote

when people complain about officers being out of their jurisdiction in their unit



In/out of jurisdiction was a propblem here in Oregon.

So they changed things: All LEO's in Oregon go thru the same State of Oregon police academy. And the result of that is that any LEO in Oregon has jurisdiction throughout the entire state, no matter where they are employed.

That seems to work quite well here.

Jerry Baumchen



That sounds like a step in the direction of this interesting article I read some time back that advocates *all* police departments should be absorbed by the state police: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/25/we-should-get-rid-of-local-policing-ferguson-shows-why-the-system-just-doesnt-work/
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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Hi Robert,

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That sounds like a step in the direction of this interesting article



I have advocated for this, here in Oregon, for at least 15 yrs.

However, in Washington County alone ( where I live ) there are 37 cities. Not one of those mayors wants to lose control of his/her police dep't.

Jerry Baumchen

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We have county wide jurisdiction, and state wide for felonies.
Also, if another agency requests assistance, we have jurisdiction in that county for all things at that time.
It does work well, we also got rid of city courts and went to a district court system. There is no financial incentive to write tickets.
Revenue neutral enforcement should be the wave of the future, sadly in many places it never will be.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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Apparently Chicago's (hated) speed cameras caught over 2,000 cop cars speeding this year while not on emergencies. Tickets excused.

One law for cops, another law for everyone else.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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How did they know they were not on an emergency?

We routinely head towards a scene that sounds like it will require the need for more than a single officer to back up the officer that was dispatched.

Take a witnessed forced entry into a house for instance. They will dispatch one officer. There is the likelyhood of catching someone inside a house. We will respond until the scene is "code 4" either by the caller stating it was a false call it was the homeowner, the person leaves the area in which case we will set up a perimeter, or enough officers get on scene and cancel any others.

-You wont find us on a report unless we actually make it there.
-Once we get close to the scene you wont see blue lights on the camera because we dont run blue lights and sirens to alert the criminal we are about to confront him.

Another instance is catching up to someone while running radar. If it is a 55 mph road and someone passes you at 75 by the time you pull out he is a ways away from you, and it is going to take you a few to catch up to him. Most officers wont immediately flip on the lights until they get closer to the car. This prevents someone who is going to run from getting a further head start, and it also allows you to get close enough to grab a plate number to radio in so before you get out of your car the dispatcher has had time to run the car for its stolen status and possibly a dangerous wanted person.

These are but a few reason where you will see officers speeding but on an legit emergency or possibly dangerous scene.


Disclaimer cops do speed im not ignorant to that fact, but know some of those times its not just them being above the law is all.

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Ok and.....?
This has to with my post how?
I don't like speed cameras either, they are for one purpose, to generate revenue, which is not revenue neutral enforcement.

Running lights and siren is dangerous, if it's a non life threatening emergency I still try to get there as fast as I can.

There is no doubt there is a culture problem in the Chicago PD, along with every other layer of city, county and state government there. How deep it runs is where we will differ, but I could only imagine how difficult it is to police in Chicago.

Like I said before, all this anti-police rhetoric only causes the cops to back off. This occurs in the most vulnerable areas where violent crime spikes. Policing can be an ugly dirty business, even when done right.

The 24-hour news cycle only pours gas on the fire, meanwhile we keep on doing what we do by the millions, that's why I've pretty much stopped posting here.
It's the usual opining, by the usual crowd.
I'm just going to keep on doing what I do, to the best of my abilities, things fall where they fall.

The best quote I've heard in a long time to cops was this:
"For every one person wanting you to fail to fit their agenda, there are ten that need you to succeed".

Pretty much sums it up.

Happy New Year, try to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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There is no doubt there is a culture problem in the Chicago PD, along with every other layer of city, county and state government there. How deep it runs is where we will differ, but I could only imagine how difficult it is to police in Chicago.

Like I said before, all this anti-police rhetoric only causes the cops to back off. This occurs in the most vulnerable areas where violent crime spikes. Policing can be an ugly dirty business, even when done right



Sounds pretty easy to be a cop in Chicago to me - do whatever the fuck you want and your colleagues will cover for you. And as far as Chicago goes it's not anti cop rhetoric, it's anti corruption rhetoric.

The Chicago PD can't go around acting like a branch of the fucking mafia and then say 'hey, if you start criticising this shit we won't be able to do our jobs properly'. They're being criticised because they're not doing their jobs properly, and the threats about 'backing off' are strongarm tactics to try and force the media and everyone else to join in their Omerta.


(Oh, and happy new year!:)
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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skycop



...Running lights and siren is dangerous, if it's a non life threatening emergency I still try to get there as fast as I can...



Running lights & siren isn't dangerous, it's the driving fast and going through red lights and stop signs that's dangerous. Most cops (and ambulances & fire trucks) do a "good solid yield" before going through an intersection. Too many idiots with stereos, or texting, or talking on the phone, ect, ect. Most traffic lights around here have the "garage door opener" modification. The fire trucks all have transmitters that can make the light green for them. They work a couple blocks in advance to allow the time for the light to go yellow then red so that the fire truck has nothing but green lights. One of the bigger advancements for "enroute safety" in a the last couple decades.

I don't know how it is where you are, but in Wisconsin, cops are supposed to follow all laws unless lights and siren are on. Not that it would be enforced, of course.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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It's VERY dangerous, we only run code on life threatening emergencies.
People react a myriad of different ways when they see the flashing lights, driving recklessly and getting to a call briskly are two different things. If I get into an accident driving recklessly I'm going to be held criminally and civilly liable. The same goes for running code, if I don't use "due caution". I used to tell my guys, you don't do anyone any good if you don't get there.
It's a perfect example of what I stated above, being lectured by people who THINK they know what they are talking about.
There are also tactical approach issues.
The statement we can do "whatever the fuck we want" is utter jibberish.
,

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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Agree with pretty much everything you said....although in some cities, I think your last comment is entirely untrue.

I think most citizens understand the fact you are most likely responding as required/needed. It's pretty impossible to know from our perspective.
One of tons of reasons for us to all drive with extreme caution.
Pretty amazing we make it alive to our destinations most days.

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The statement we can do "whatever the fuck we want" is utter jibberish.



Given that you were talking about the culture problem in Chicago then y'know, if you can kill someone, destroy video evidence and have the chain of command bend over backwards to protect you despite a laundry list of prior allegations then in that situation I would be feeling like I could do whatever the fuck I wanted. Wouldn't you?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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if you can kill someone, destroy video evidence and have the chain of command bend over backwards to protect you despite a laundry list of prior allegations then in that situation I would be feeling like I could do whatever the fuck I wanted. Wouldn't you?



He is charged with murder, so the answer would be no.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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skycop

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if you can kill someone, destroy video evidence and have the chain of command bend over backwards to protect you despite a laundry list of prior allegations then in that situation I would be feeling like I could do whatever the fuck I wanted. Wouldn't you?



He is charged with murder, so the answer would be no.



It took over a year and repeated FOIA requests and a lawsuit to get the video released. And he wasn't charged until the day before the video came out.

The family received a huge payout, with the condition that they not ask for the video.Why would that be? And the bartender that the off duty cop beat up had a similar situation. She was offered immediate payment of her settlement if she didn't make the video public. The judge threw that out immediately.

There are a lot of stories just like that. Off duty cop starts a fight, when the cops show up the person who the off duty picked a fight with gets arrested. And often "resists arrest", so the arresting officers beat them up some more.

And my point about the lights and siren wasn't that it isn't dangerous (the driving part). I know people will do the damndest things, sometimes with the best of intentions.
And yes, running that way should be reserved for emergencies.

But shouldn't the cops be held to the same standard as the rest of the public?
To say that they aren't is extremely naive. (hint: Professor Kallend's comment about the traffic cams and the cops getting all the tickets dismissed should be a clue).
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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skycop

Quote

if you can kill someone, destroy video evidence and have the chain of command bend over backwards to protect you despite a laundry list of prior allegations then in that situation I would be feeling like I could do whatever the fuck I wanted. Wouldn't you?



He is charged with murder, so the answer would be no.


Right, after getting away with brutality and excessive force for years, murdering someone and having it covered up for him he finally faces trial because a whistleblower felt the situation was so egregiously fucked up he had to go straight to the press.

Yeah, I bet all the cops in Chicago are really jumping at shadows now!:|
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Your link requires payment to read. I was able to search "Emanuel E-Mail Coverup" and find it without paying.

I'm not entirely sure this indicates a coverup at the mayors office. More of a "how can we spin this to not look so bad." Seems to show that they felt criminal charges would be coming and were trying to figure out how not to get drawn in.

Of course, their knowledge and involvement could reasonably be taken as "accessories after the fact."

And I love the part where they said that the Chicago PD had no part in the investigation because it had been referred to the review board. After firing the super.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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This must be another FB linked article, they don't prompt you if you go there from FB. Nor do they require a subscription, just an email registration.
I seem to go there a lot, I love Chicago. One of my favorite big cities in the US.

Sorry.

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No worries. I saw the headline before the "Pay up sucka" pop-up covered it up. I searched that headline and was able to find the article. I included the search string so others could read it.

I kinda figured you didn't do it on purpose. :)

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Dumbfounded by yesterdays police shooting of man lying on ground with hands up:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html

Yes, already in another thread. Then see todays "heavy handedness":

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/video-violent-arrest-texas-school-teacher_us_57914ce1e4b0bdddc4d3e66b

It doesn't matter if police work is the only good paying job where you live; if you are not mentally/psychologically suited to it, another occupation is in order.

I think good/professional police should be the most angry and vocal in regards to these halfwits. Events like this make them all look bad.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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Can we PLEASE stop referring to them as "these brave men"???
Brave men don't act this way.


These do:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/16/obama-award-medal-valor-13-police-officers/84429336/
It's important to remember that not all police, or even most police, are racist, ignorant fuckwits. A very few are. But most of them are dedicated, honest people who make our society a better place.

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billvon

Quote

Can we PLEASE stop referring to them as "these brave men"???
Brave men don't act this way.


These do:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/16/obama-award-medal-valor-13-police-officers/84429336/
It's important to remember that not all police, or even most police, are racist, ignorant fuckwits. A very few are. But most of them are dedicated, honest people who make our society a better place.



You can't ruin his world view. Quit trying.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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billvon

Quote

Can we PLEASE stop referring to them as "these brave men"???
Brave men don't act this way.


These do:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/16/obama-award-medal-valor-13-police-officers/84429336/
It's important to remember that not all police, or even most police, are racist, ignorant fuckwits. A very few are. But most of them are dedicated, honest people who make our society a better place.



UNFORTUNATELY a substantial fraction of the dedicated, honest ones fail to report the bad apples, or even cover-up for them.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

***

Quote

Can we PLEASE stop referring to them as "these brave men"???
Brave men don't act this way.


These do:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/16/obama-award-medal-valor-13-police-officers/84429336/
It's important to remember that not all police, or even most police, are racist, ignorant fuckwits. A very few are. But most of them are dedicated, honest people who make our society a better place.



UNFORTUNATELY a substantial fraction of the dedicated, honest ones fail to report the bad apples, or even cover-up for them.

So you are a cop hater too?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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