Paging Christelsabine, Ibx, Mpohl (aka Germany WTF)

[Amazon 7]

masterblaster72

***

Quote

And what's with the sudden 180-degree turn today with the border controls and the realization that *perhaps* it's a better idea to fund the refugee camps in Syria instead? Are Germans finally waking up to the realization that maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all?

I think they are completely overwhelmed with the situation. I also think that Merkels politics is generally reactionary and opportunistic. At the moment the Germans are feeling really welcommy towards all the refugees and without the major help of all the volunteers the whole thing would look way worse than it is. Merkel is using this for popularity.
Now the powers that be are very scared that at a certain point the majority population will turn against the refugees and Merkel wants to on the one hand stop that from happening and on the other stop the really pissed off people from running to right wing partys.
And you are completely right, the way the current refugee system is set up, it cannot handle that many people by a long shot.

This will also lead to big conflicts within our society when integration fails miserably again.

Thanks for the insight that we English speakers don't often get in our media. That's a point of view I haven't heard, and I've been reading a lot on the topic.

Northern European countries tend to get a lot of things right -- but I don't think it will be long before Germans and Swedes regret being so welcoming. I mean, 1 MILLION refugees, and that's just the estimate for this year. This figure goes way beyond what the 1951 UN Refugee Convention intended to address.

I see this situation as a deeply problematic one, on many levels.

You would think that the Islamic countries would be welcoming their muslim brothers with open arms..... but it seems all the money they have pried from the west in oil revenues is only for the select few across the Arab world once again.

[christelsabine 1]

turtlespeed

So offended that they can't even discuss the issue at all.
Simply state that the same place they choose to criticize everyone else isn't suitable for discussions of their own situations.

Thanks for showing your true self.

Very enlightening.

Who's offended? Who is *they*? About what? Not me.

I clearly replied to the OP that I will not discuss this matter here. Masterblaster seems not to be offended about my reply, why are you???

And for the rest your above post, f.e. *true self*, *enlightening* .... that's just frothy gibberish.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Christel,

Quote

Who's offended?

I do know that I am not.

I do not know much about the laws in Germany. Here, we have freedom of speech. That includes the freedom to not speak.

Strange how some folks cannot grasp that.

Jerry Baumchen

[turtlespeed 212]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Christel,

Quote

Who's offended?

I do know that I am not.

I do not know much about the laws in Germany. Here, we have freedom of speech. That includes the freedom to not speak.

Strange how some folks cannot grasp that.

Jerry Baumchen

So you don't find it ironic that christel will not hesitate to discuss everything bad in other countries here, but not his own?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,623]

DougH

***Well, let's see.

Bush and Cheney lie their way into a war for the benefit of Halliburton (etc.) shareholders. Most European countries oppose it and get the "if you aren't with us you're against us", "cheese eating surrender monkey" and "freedom fries" treatment.

The war and its aftermath is so mismanaged by Bush's point guy Paul Bremer that a monster (ISIS/ISIL) is created.

Leading to a refugee crisis.

That Europe is now supposed to deal with because the GOP wouldn't want any of those nasty A-Rabs over here.

That about sums it up.

That is rather narrow viewed and selective.

We no doubt left IRAQ a shit show, but the vacuum in Syria, aided by our inaction, and bullshit red lines, also played a huge roll in the creation of ISIL/ISIS.



Get real. While the bulk of the blame lies with GWB/Cheney, US meddling in the region for decades has resulted in this instability. Now the GOP is up in arms about taking even a small fraction of the resulting refugees that the EU, Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt have taken. (One certainly wonders why UAE, Kuwait and Saudi have taken so few).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

>We no doubt left IRAQ a shit show, but the vacuum in Syria, aided by our
>inaction, and bullshit red lines, also played a huge roll in the creation of
>ISIL/ISIS. In other words, Hopey Changey also has some blame to shoulder.

I find it interesting that when the Iraq troop pullout was happening, and was popular, the GOP was quite loudly claiming that it had nothing to do with Obama; it was all in Bush's plan, and Bush should get all the credit for ending the war. Obama was just trying to take credit for someone else's hard work and vision.

Now that it turns out that the withdrawal left a power vacuum, the rhetoric has changed to "Obama should take a lot of the blame."

[rehmwa 2]

turtlespeed

So you don't find it ironic that christel will not hesitate to discuss everything bad in other countries here, but not his own?

not surprised at this at all - some cultures just indoctrinate a bad attitude towards other societies.


HOWEVER - I am thrilled with the use of the term "frothy gibberish" - so I'll happily call Christel a friend for that chuckle right there.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Driver1 0]

Iago

***

Quote

And what's with the sudden 180-degree turn today with the border controls and the realization that *perhaps* it's a better idea to fund the refugee camps in Syria instead? Are Germans finally waking up to the realization that maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all?

I think they are completely overwhelmed with the situation. I also think that Merkels politics is generally reactionary and opportunistic. At the moment the Germans are feeling really welcommy towards all the refugees and without the major help of all the volunteers the whole thing would look way worse than it is. Merkel is using this for popularity.
Now the powers that be are very scared that at a certain point the majority population will turn against the refugees and Merkel wants to on the one hand stop that from happening and on the other stop the really pissed off people from running to right wing partys.
And you are completely right, the way the current refugee system is set up, it cannot handle that many people by a long shot.

This will also lead to big conflicts within our society when integration fails miserably again.

The last report I read said Germany was looking at taking in about 1 million.

I hate to say it, but the Germans are going to regret their generosity in a few months.

Yep. God only knows how many of those "refugees" could be ISIS or other radical muslims setting themselves up as moles for future attacks.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi turtle,

Quote

So you don't find it ironic

In a word: No

When someone asks you if skydiving is safe, what do you tell them?

Ironic, safe, etc are subjective; and nothing more.

YMMV

Jerry Baumchen

[aphid 0]

gowlerk

Germany has been the root cause of much larger refugee problems than this within the time period of living memory. Makes me believe in Karma.

Ken,

You'll be hard-pressed to find a more patriotic Canadian than me, but I think it is disingenuous to criticize another country for their policies towards refugees without at least acknowledging our own countries past transgressions.

The Komagata Maru incident involved a Japanese steamship, Komagata Maru, that sailed from Hong Kong, Shanghai, China to Yokohama, Japan and then to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, in 1914, carrying 376 passengers from Punjab, British India. Of them 24 were admitted to Canada, but the 352 other passengers were not allowed to land in Canada, and the ship was forced to return to India. The passengers consisted of 340 Sikhs, 24 Muslims, and 12 Hindus, all British subjects. This was one of several incidents in the history of early 20th century involving exclusion laws in both Canada and the United States designed to keep out immigrants of only Asian origin.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komagata_Maru_incident

Between 1930 and 1939, Canada rejected almost all Jewish refugees from Nazi Europe, taking in only 4,000 of the 800,000 Jews looking for refuge. MS St. Louis sailed from Hamburg in May 1939, carrying 937 Jewish refugees seeking asylum from Nazi persecution. The destination was Cuba, but officials in Havana cancelled Jewish passengers' visas. Jewish immigration was strictly limited in North America, so the passengers were denied entrance to Canada and the United States.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Canada


And currently, the present government of Canada has been downright chickenshit in response to the Syrian crisis.

If we, as a nation are so damned afraid of ISIS/ISIL operatives hiding amongst the refugees, we could take a lesson from General Rick Hillier, Chief of Defence Staff, (ret).

... this time the general wasn’t taking about taking lives but saving them, albeit with the same, can-do determination he tried to bring to the war against the Taliban a decade earlier. And this time he was sounding very Canadian indeed.

source: http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-the-moment/gen-hilliers-politically-incorrect-approach-to-the-refugee-crisis

Hillier added that Canada is capable of bringing in 50,000 refugees and “responsibly” screening them for any security risks. He added, “We can stand tall during this dark chapter in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, and really do something that will make the world notice Canada, and make Canadians proud of what they can do… and I think we need to step up".

source: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rick-hillier-on-help-for-refugees-i-think-we-need-to-do-it-in-a-big-way-1.2556849

If Canada agreed to take in orphaned children, women who are on their own, single-parent families, or families in general, it would be easy to find 50,000 people who need to be relocated and who present no security threat, said Mr. Hillier *

source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/army-rcmp-can-help-resettle-50000-refugees-hillier-says/article26348108/

* That paragraph I intentionally included to address the xenophobes of all nationalities who participate in this forum and cry wolf at the very thought of Mooslims invading the Christan World. (sarcasm fully intended)

Have we already forgotten the lessons of and the charity extended towards the Vietnamese boat-people in the 1970's.

I am ashamed of my countries current reticence.

John

[Amazon 7]

aphid

***
Germany has been the root cause of much larger refugee problems than this within the time period of living memory. Makes me believe in Karma.

Ken,

You'll be hard-pressed to find a more patriotic Canadian than me, but I think it is disingenuous to criticize another country for their policies towards refugees without at least acknowledging our own countries past transgressions.

The Komagata Maru incident involved a Japanese steamship, Komagata Maru, that sailed from Hong Kong, Shanghai, China to Yokohama, Japan and then to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, in 1914, carrying 376 passengers from Punjab, British India. Of them 24 were admitted to Canada, but the 352 other passengers were not allowed to land in Canada, and the ship was forced to return to India. The passengers consisted of 340 Sikhs, 24 Muslims, and 12 Hindus, all British subjects. This was one of several incidents in the history of early 20th century involving exclusion laws in both Canada and the United States designed to keep out immigrants of only Asian origin.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komagata_Maru_incident

Between 1930 and 1939, Canada rejected almost all Jewish refugees from Nazi Europe, taking in only 4,000 of the 800,000 Jews looking for refuge. MS St. Louis sailed from Hamburg in May 1939, carrying 937 Jewish refugees seeking asylum from Nazi persecution. The destination was Cuba, but officials in Havana cancelled Jewish passengers' visas. Jewish immigration was strictly limited in North America, so the passengers were denied entrance to Canada and the United States.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Canada


And currently, the present government of Canada has been downright chickenshit in response to the Syrian crisis.

If we, as a nation are so damned afraid of ISIS/ISIL operatives hiding amongst the refugees, we could take a lesson from General Rick Hillier, Chief of Defence Staff, (ret).

... this time the general wasn’t taking about taking lives but saving them, albeit with the same, can-do determination he tried to bring to the war against the Taliban a decade earlier. And this time he was sounding very Canadian indeed.

source: http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-the-moment/gen-hilliers-politically-incorrect-approach-to-the-refugee-crisis

Hillier added that Canada is capable of bringing in 50,000 refugees and “responsibly” screening them for any security risks. He added, “We can stand tall during this dark chapter in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, and really do something that will make the world notice Canada, and make Canadians proud of what they can do… and I think we need to step up".

source: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rick-hillier-on-help-for-refugees-i-think-we-need-to-do-it-in-a-big-way-1.2556849

If Canada agreed to take in orphaned children, women who are on their own, single-parent families, or families in general, it would be easy to find 50,000 people who need to be relocated and who present no security threat, said Mr. Hillier *

source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/army-rcmp-can-help-resettle-50000-refugees-hillier-says/article26348108/

* That paragraph I intentionally included to address the xenophobes of all nationalities who participate in this forum and cry wolf at the very thought of Mooslims invading the Christan World. (sarcasm fully intended)

Have we already forgotten the lessons of and the charity extended towards the Vietnamese boat-people in the 1970's.

I am ashamed of my countries current reticence.

John

I would start with the translators who served honorably with our troops..
Our guys knew who the good ones were in Afghanistan and Iraq. Start with 5 translators and their families for each unit that served over there and who are now in great peril for their helping us.

[gowlerk 1,911]

I completely agree with you on that John. Canada has had moments where we have shone on this front, but far more moments of shame. Thanks for the research, I knew about these events, but not as an overall picture. Rick Hillier is a true hero.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[ryoder 1,384]

Amazon

I would start with the translators who served honorably with our troops..
Our guys knew who the good ones were in Afghanistan and Iraq. Start with 5 translators and their families for each unit that served over there and who are now in great peril for their helping us.

Well, I personally met an Iraqi translator last winter when I was playing patient for the EMT class at the local college. She and her husband had both immigrated here after working as translators for the US in Iraq, and she was training to be an EMT.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Amazon 7]

ryoder

***
I would start with the translators who served honorably with our troops..
Our guys knew who the good ones were in Afghanistan and Iraq. Start with 5 translators and their families for each unit that served over there and who are now in great peril for their helping us.

Well, I personally met an Iraqi translator last winter when I was playing patient for the EMT class at the local college. She and her husband had both immigrated here after working as translators for the US in Iraq, and she was training to be an EMT.

Those people need to move to the head of the immigration line... they kept a lot of our people alive by their actions. I would bet the people they served with would be happy to sponsor them in coming to our country.

[skypuppy 1]

not taking Jews in as refugees is quite a bit different than Hitler's 'final solution', and the almost 1.5 million Jewish refugees that had to flee from his Nazi regime.

Even trying to compare a reluctance to accept refugees with that murderous regime is ridiculous.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[ibx 2]

Quote

Yep. God only knows how many of those "refugees" could be ISIS or other radical muslims setting themselves up as moles for future attacks.

I don't really see that as the major problem. That would be a real political disaster for the current administration, that would be the greatest fallout probably.

The much bigger problem is having a few hundred thousand people from really diverse backgrounds who are traumatized and feel completely displaced integrate into German society. Estimates say only about 1/10 can be immediately integrated into the work force. It will be major challenge for the school system which is quite desolate as it is. It will leave lots of people feeling completely disenfranchised, with nothing to do... That's the real danger IMHO.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

skypuppy

not taking Jews in as refugees is quite a bit different than Hitler's 'final solution', and the almost 1.5 million Jewish refugees that had to flee from his Nazi regime.

Even trying to compare a reluctance to accept refugees with that murderous regime is ridiculous.

Except for the part where the St. Louis was forced to return its passengers to Europe, where eventually about a quarter of the passengers died in concentration camps. (link)

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[wmw999 2,121]

Saying that one's sins aren't worth discussing because they're not as serious as someone else's is giving away the opportunity to improve.

You can't change someone else. You can (sometimes) change yourself. By and large, that works for countries, cities, and everything in between as well. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but its still harder than fixing yourself.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

christelsabine

The EU has to find the best solution - anyway, the leading countries. I'm sure, they'll succeed, setbacks included.

For me as a German, DZ.com is not the place to discuss our actual events over here.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/15/german-authorities-every-refugee-pretends-syrian-least-25-per-cent-liars/

Well
Your events are being discussed in many places
Much to your dismay it seems
Bet that at is may

Your thoughts regarding the linked info?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

***The EU has to find the best solution - anyway, the leading countries. I'm sure, they'll succeed, setbacks included.

For me as a German, DZ.com is not the place to discuss our actual events over here.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/15/german-authorities-every-refugee-pretends-syrian-least-25-per-cent-liars/

Well
Your events are being discussed in many places
Much to your dismay it seems
Bet that at is may

Your thoughts regarding the linked info?

Breitbart is about as truthful as this.

Turned out to be a blatant lie, as expected from a right wing source these days.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

So, you are saying that they are is truthful as you are about not wanting to ban guns?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

So, you are saying that they are is truthful as you are about not wanting to ban guns?

The mods have already given you the "one warning" about making that claim again.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

***So, you are saying that they are is truthful as you are about not wanting to ban guns?

The mods have already given you the "one warning" about making that claim again.

No
there has been no warning for that


BTW
You did not (yet again) address any of the content in the post

Why would.......

Oh
Never mind

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

BTW
You did not (yet again) address any of the content in the post

Dude, you were the one that went off on a crazy tangent. kallent pointed out that your Breitbart article was a lie and you tried to deflect it into a personal attack.

How about you address the content of kallend's post?

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Quote

BTW
You did not (yet again) address any of the content in the post

Dude, you were the one that went off on a crazy tangent. kallent pointed out that your Breitbart article was a lie and you tried to deflect it into a personal attack.

How about you address the content of kallend's post?

No. He claimed a different article was a lie.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln