Unionized skydiving instructors

[turtlespeed 212]

This may just be the perfect time to form a union.
"Brotherhood of skydive instructors and video flyers"

Packers could have their own, as well.
"Manifest and packers Union"

It wouldn't cost any more to skydive if the instructors were all union would it?

There could be healthcare and retirement.

Unions are a good thing, right?

So, if unions are so good, why not every Union supporter here advocating for a skydiving Union?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[muff528 3]

No need. Unless things have changed in the past few years, most folks working for the skydiving industry are very well paid with full benefits, retirement packages, job security and paid holidays.

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

This may just be the perfect time to form a union.
"Brotherhood of skydive instructors and video flyers"

Packers could have their own, as well.
"Manifest and packers Union"

It wouldn't cost any more to skydive if the instructors were all union would it?

There could be healthcare and retirement.

Unions are a good thing, right?

So, if unions are so good, why not every Union supporter here advocating for a skydiving Union?

Cool... you can have all your weekends off

[turtlespeed 212]

muff528

No need. Unless things have changed in the past few years, most folks working for the skydiving industry are very well paid with full benefits, retirement packages, job security and paid holidays.

No need for a union?

Most folks?

I bet you are not fully informed.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[muff528 3]

turtlespeed

***No need. Unless things have changed in the past few years, most folks working for the skydiving industry are very well paid with full benefits, retirement packages, job security and paid holidays.

No need for a union?

Most folks?

I bet you are not fully informed.

Instructors should just be happy that they get free jumps and a line of BS to pick up chickies after the beer light comes on ...or versie vica as the case may be.

[turtlespeed 212]

muff528

******No need. Unless things have changed in the past few years, most folks working for the skydiving industry are very well paid with full benefits, retirement packages, job security and paid holidays.

No need for a union?

Most folks?

I bet you are not fully informed.

Instructors should just be happy that they get free jumps and a line of BS to pick up chickies after the beer light comes on ...or versie vica as the case may be.

That is exactly why every drop zone should be unionized.
So all the employees get treated equally.

We could have something like the Davis Bacon Act dictating wages.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,400]

>Unions are a good thing, right?

Why? None of the traditional reasons that justify unions (coercion, dangerous working conditions, indentured servitude, wage slavery, company towns) apply. If you don't like a DZ, just quit.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>Unions are a good thing, right?

Why? None of the traditional reasons that justify unions (coercion, dangerous working conditions, indentured servitude, wage slavery, company towns) apply. If you don't like a DZ, just quit.

So, if you do t like your textile company, just quit.
If you don't like your carpentry company, just quit
If you don't like your iron workers company, just quit
If you don't like the elevator install company, just quit
If you don't like the whatever, just quit . . .

Why do you hate unions?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,400]

>So, if you do t like your textile company, just quit.

Sure.

>Why do you hate unions?

Oh, sorry, I took you seriously for a second. You may now return to your regularly scheduled left-bashing.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>So, if you do t like your textile company, just quit.

Sure.

>Why do you hate unions?

Oh, sorry, I took you seriously for a second. You may now return to your regularly scheduled left-bashing.

I am serious.

What is the down side of having a union for skydive instructors, and staff at a drop zone?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>So, if you do t like your textile company, just quit.

Sure.

>Why do you hate unions?

Oh, sorry, I took you seriously for a second. You may now return to your regularly scheduled left-bashing.

Professional skydivers should be making more than an average of between 18 and 30k/ yr.
http://www.ehow.com/info_12020605_average-salary-skydiving-instructor.html
It should be at least double that.

A union would make that happen.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

It would kill the industry.
Stop being silly.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

It would kill the industry.
Stop being silly.

So a union would kill the skydive industry?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,122]

turtlespeed

***>So, if you do t like your textile company, just quit.

Sure.

>Why do you hate unions?

Oh, sorry, I took you seriously for a second. You may now return to your regularly scheduled left-bashing.

Professional skydivers should be making more than an average of between 18 and 30k/ yr.
http://www.ehow.com/info_12020605_average-salary-skydiving-instructor.html
It should be at least double that.

A union would make that happen.

Not bad for a two day a week part-time job.

Plus, most of these instructors are not employees.

[BIGUN 1,053]

Because it would change the relationship from that of contractor to employee. As such, I would lose all my tax deductions like jumps, to and fro the DZ, equipment depreciation, travels to boogies, reserve packing fees, etc. etc.

No union needed here.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

******>So, if you do t like your textile company, just quit.

Sure.

>Why do you hate unions?

Oh, sorry, I took you seriously for a second. You may now return to your regularly scheduled left-bashing.

Professional skydivers should be making more than an average of between 18 and 30k/ yr.
http://www.ehow.com/info_12020605_average-salary-skydiving-instructor.html
It should be at least double that.

A union would make that happen.

Not bad for a two day a week part-time job.

Plus, most of these instructors are not employees.

Math . . .
30k/yr = 1200 jumps.
1200 jumps/yr = 23 jumps EVERY weekend . . . No weather days, no sick days, no health insurance, no retirement.

We need to stand up for the rights of these prle being taken advantage of, and over worked to a point where they are a danger to themselves and others.

Truckers are only allowed to drive a certain amount of hours and be considered safe.

The same restrictions should fought for by representatives of the instructors and video flyers.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

BIGUN

Because it would change the relationship from that of contractor to employee. As such, I would lose all my tax deductions like jumps, to and fro the DZ, equipment depreciation, travels to boogies, reserve packing fees, etc. etc.

No union needed here.

What about healthcare, disability insurance, OSHA, retirement?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[BIGUN 1,053]

turtlespeed

***Because it would change the relationship from that of contractor to employee. As such, I would lose all my tax deductions like jumps, to and fro the DZ, equipment depreciation, travels to boogies, reserve packing fees, etc. etc.

No union needed here.

What about healthcare, disability insurance, OSHA, retirement?

Healthcare - deductible If you choose not to get it - that's your fault. You pays your bill.
Disability Insurance - Deductible. If you choose not to get it - that's your fault. You lose income.
OSHA - Seriously? OSHA wouldn't shit from a good grade of peanut butter about what we do.
Retirement - open a 401K or IRA.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[turtlespeed 212]

BIGUN

******Because it would change the relationship from that of contractor to employee. As such, I would lose all my tax deductions like jumps, to and fro the DZ, equipment depreciation, travels to boogies, reserve packing fees, etc. etc.

No union needed here.

What about healthcare, disability insurance, OSHA, retirement?

Healthcare - deductible If you choose not to get it - that's your fault. You pays your bill.
Disability Insurance - Deductible. If you choose not to get it - that's your fault. You lose income.
OSHA - Seriously? OSHA wouldn't shit from a good grade of peanut butter about what we do.
Retirement - open a 401K or IRA.

It has been proven that we cannot be trusted to purchase and maintain insurances and retirement accounts. Those need to be regulated by some entity, like the government, or unions.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,400]

>I am serious.

We'll see who takes the flamebait.

[stayhigh 2]

I think all the skydivers who talked about setting up a Union has ultimately gotten fired or has quit or changed their occupation.

You are gonna need all the support from every Ti's and packers out there to unite, which isn't gonna happen. Some kid with 500 jumps and a tandem rating would be happy to eat ramen and live off the dz for $20 dollar tandems.

The Ti and the packers during the 90's had the time, the equipment has gotten totally reliable, they have gotten the same pay, same number of jumps, same or more number of pack jobs and the cost of living was significantly less than what it is right now.

shit,,, I've got kicked out of DZ by who would become a child molester for complaining about inadequate shading in the packing area.

http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/CAH2515133E3121/John-Spencer-Hamilton.html
Collected from this official state registry website or page: http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/

can I come back to your dz and jump now?

Good thing that you've got a low score on static-99.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[cengland 0]

What is the down side of having a union for skydive instructors, and staff at a drop zone?

Changes to tax filing, as a self employed contractor you have a shitload of tax deductions at your disposal. As an employee not so much plus the amount of money you actually earn gets reported annually to the CRA / IRA allowing them to dig deeper into your pockets.

Union dues - more of your hard earned cash lining the coffers of your union.

Raises benefits and perks are actually limited to market conditions and what a DZO is willing to part with after administration and operating expenses are covered, in my experience working in both unionised and non unionised factories unions have not been able to negotiate more from an employer than a Non Union Employee Committee made up of a group of employees negotiating with the company, the difference being the Employee Committee doesn't have their hands in your pockets every pay taking union dues.

Less friction between management and employees, it's also been my experience that after a plant becomes union certified management tends to clamp down on rules and regulations, minor infractions such as attendance, tardiness, taking a few more bathroom breaks or slightly extended lunch periods that would tend to be disregarded or dealt with a casual discussion are now dealt with documented verbal / written warnings, time off and eventual dismissal, perk and benefits such as monthly lunches, bbq's, company picnics are scaled back or cut entirely.

Employee bonuses for attendance, production, kaizan rewards tend to get scaled back or cut.

In Canada: workplace harassment, safety violations, wrongful dismissals etc can easily be addressed by employees by picking up the phone and calling the Ministry of Labour who are actually quite ruthless when it comes to workplace inspections, violations and accident / fatality investigations and levying fines against employers and their owners and supervisors.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/news/courtbulletins.php



These are all things I've seen first hand working in the manufacturing / automotive industry in Canada for 15 years.

[turtlespeed 212]

cengland

What is the down side of having a union for skydive instructors, and staff at a drop zone?

Changes to tax filing, as a self employed contractor you have a shitload of tax deductions at your disposal. As an employee not so much plus the amount of money you actually earn gets reported annually to the CRA / IRA allowing them to dig deeper into your pockets.

Union dues - more of your hard earned cash lining the coffers of your union.

Raises benefits and perks are actually limited to market conditions and what a DZO is willing to part with after administration and operating expenses are covered, in my experience working in both unionised and non unionised factories unions have not been able to negotiate more from an employer than a Non Union Employee Committee made up of a group of employees negotiating with the company, the difference being the Employee Committee doesn't have their hands in your pockets every pay taking union dues.

Less friction between management and employees, it's also been my experience that after a plant becomes union certified management tends to clamp down on rules and regulations, minor infractions such as attendance, tardiness, taking a few more bathroom breaks or slightly extended lunch periods that would tend to be disregarded or dealt with a casual discussion are now dealt with documented verbal / written warnings, time off and eventual dismissal, perk and benefits such as monthly lunches, bbq's, company picnics are scaled back or cut entirely.

Employee bonuses for attendance, production, kaizan rewards tend to get scaled back or cut.

In Canada: workplace harassment, safety violations, wrongful dismissals etc can easily be addressed by employees by picking up the phone and calling the Ministry of Labour who are actually quite ruthless when it comes to workplace inspections, violations and accident / fatality investigations and levying fines against employers and their owners and supervisors.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/news/courtbulletins.php



These are all things I've seen first hand working in the manufacturing / automotive industry in Canada for 15 years.

Interesting. I'm confused I guess. I thought that unions protected workers from employers and guaranteed better rates of pay, took care of all the incidentals of finance, and assured a good retirement for the worker. I don't understand, why wouldn't anyone want a union representing them?

Are you implying that a union doesn't actually provide these things?

It seems like you are saying that a union doesn't really represent the best interests of the individual.

How is that possible?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun