Ronhend 0 #1 August 18, 2015 http://www.havokjournal.com/nation/president-plans-to-attend-ranger-school-ceremony-this-guarantees-first-women-will-graduate/ Wow, the dumbing down of standards continues. RonATP B-727 B767-757 CFI-II Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #2 August 18, 2015 That sucks. I have many friends that have worn the Ranger tab. To guarantee someone will graduate cheapens what it means and weakens the fighting force. Women are wonderful, women are great, many are tough as hell, but no one should be "given" the Ranger tab. It should always be earned, at a very high price. In my old job as an air traffic controller, they washed out 2/3rds of my class in the first 12 weeks in Oklahoma City. We then went to our assigned facilities where they washed out another 20% or so. Talk about inspirational. How hard will you work to make it? How hard will you push yourself to do the job to the best of your ability? Unfortunately too many people had their feelings hurt and they changed it to "Train to succeed." The washout rate at the Academy took a nose dive and turned out many weak air traffic control students who felt they were owed a job. We spent years washing them out eventually. But I don't think the Rangers have time for that when the $hit hits the fan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 38 #3 August 18, 2015 JohnMitchell That sucks. I have many friends that have worn the Ranger tab. To guarantee someone will graduate cheapens what it means and weakens the fighting force. Women are wonderful, women are great, many are tough as hell, but no one should be "given" the Ranger tab. It should always be earned, at a very high price. In my old job as an air traffic controller, they washed out 2/3rds of my class in the first 12 weeks in Oklahoma City. We then went to our assigned facilities where they washed out another 20% or so. Talk about inspirational. How hard will you work to make it? How hard will you push yourself to do the job to the best of your ability? Unfortunately too many people had their feelings hurt and they changed it to "Train to succeed." The washout rate at the Academy took a nose dive and turned out many weak air traffic control students who felt they were owed a job. We spent years washing them out eventually. But I don't think the Rangers have time for that when the $hit hits the fan. John, I couldn't agree with you more, It doesn't matter what the job is. Fireman, cop, SEAL, Ranger, Marine… If you don't qualify (physically, mentally, emotionally) to actually do the job, you should not have the job.lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 123 #4 August 18, 2015 the automatic assumption that 'changing a standard' means negative impact is patently incorrect. You can lower a standard, develop new training methods and still maintain a good output. business, manufacturing, and the military do it all the time. i.e. scale down the military by 25% in the USA....we still have the most dominant military in the world and does not mean that we are suddenly failing nor vulnerable. making the assumption that the only standard to be a Ranger is the 'designed-by-men-for-men-only' standard is equally flawed. As flawed as the 'gay issue' still is and was for so long. the world needs to grow up. I cannot believe we treat women with such disdain in the world today in so many fields. wages, social status, sex, rape, their own reproductive systems.....we have such a long way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,339 #5 August 18, 2015 Well, new reports are saying that the two women are going to graduate because they passed the course. The real course, not some 'watered down' version of it. 381 men and 19 women started it. 94 men and 2 women finished it. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-graduate-army-ranger-course/index.html Congrats to all the graduates. That course is a serious mind-fuck, body-fuck and soul-fuck. The candidate has to really want to wear the tab to make it through. And IBTM."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #6 August 18, 2015 wolfriverjoeWell, new reports are saying that the two women are going to graduate because they passed the course. The real course, not some 'watered down' version of it. Good to hear that. Maybe I was wrong in my earlier post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,339 #7 August 18, 2015 The story of the women attempting the Ranger course has been bouncing around the news and FB for a few weeks. It's been made pretty clear that the course is the same for all candidates. There have been previous discussions about how the course has changed over the years to adapt to lessons learned in the field. But none of those changes were made to make it easier for the candidates to pass. The women are reported to both be West Point grads."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #8 August 18, 2015 wolfriverjoeWell, new reports are saying that the two women are going to graduate because they passed the course. The real course, not some 'watered down' version of it. 381 men and 19 women started it. 94 men and 2 women finished it. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-graduate-army-ranger-course/index.html Congrats to all the graduates. That course is a serious mind-fuck, body-fuck and soul-fuck. The candidate has to really want to wear the tab to make it through. And IBTM. Outstanding... Looks like we've got our real-life G.I. Janes now... Who'd have thunk it?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #9 August 18, 2015 BillyVance ***Well, new reports are saying that the two women are going to graduate because they passed the course. The real course, not some 'watered down' version of it. 381 men and 19 women started it. 94 men and 2 women finished it. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-graduate-army-ranger-course/index.html Congrats to all the graduates. That course is a serious mind-fuck, body-fuck and soul-fuck. The candidate has to really want to wear the tab to make it through. And IBTM. Outstanding... Looks like we've got our real-life G.I. Janes now... Who'd have thunk it? G.I. Jane is offensive, we don't know how they identify. Geez, Billy /s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 August 18, 2015 wolfriverjoe they passed the course. The real course, not some 'watered down' version of it. GOOD - this is how it should be. great for them, and the men that passed also ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,119 #11 August 18, 2015 JohnMitchell That sucks. I have many friends that have worn the Ranger tab. To guarantee someone will graduate cheapens what it means and weakens the fighting force. Women are wonderful, women are great, many are tough as hell, but no one should be "given" the Ranger tab. It should always be earned, at a very high price. In my old job as an air traffic controller, they washed out 2/3rds of my class in the first 12 weeks in Oklahoma City. We then went to our assigned facilities where they washed out another 20% or so. Talk about inspirational. How hard will you work to make it? How hard will you push yourself to do the job to the best of your ability? Unfortunately too many people had their feelings hurt and they changed it to "Train to succeed." The washout rate at the Academy took a nose dive and turned out many weak air traffic control students who felt they were owed a job. We spent years washing them out eventually. But I don't think the Rangers have time for that when the $hit hits the fan. Asumming the qualifying standards are actualy job related, I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #12 August 18, 2015 SkyDekker Asumming the qualifying standards are actualy job related, I agree. Yes, they are. It's almost all on-the-job training or simulator training. With that said, there are a few poor instructors with harsh training methods (drill instructor mentality, etc.) that have to be reined in, but that's what supervisors are for. But it basically boils down to "can you do the job?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,119 #13 August 18, 2015 JohnMitchell*** Asumming the qualifying standards are actualy job related, I agree. Yes, they are. It's almost all on-the-job training or simulator training. With that said, there are a few poor instructors with harsh training methods (drill instructor mentality, etc.) that have to be reined in, but that's what supervisors are for. But it basically boils down to "can you do the job?" Sorry, should have added that I didn't mean that specific to ATC, but to the concept in general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 185 #14 August 18, 2015 James Webb once noted that he was all for women in combat until he spent time as a Marine in Vietnam. Noting that training standards were changed to accommodate women, he pointed out that training by touch-football rules didn't do much good when you go up against the Green Bay Packers. Most men couldn't make it through Ranger training, and only a vanishingly small number of women could. My hat's off to anyone who survives the whole regimen and earns the tab. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,619 #15 August 18, 2015 winsorJames Webb once noted that he was all for women in combat until he spent time as a Marine in Vietnam. Noting that training standards were changed to accommodate women, he pointed out that training by touch-football rules didn't do much good when you go up against the Green Bay Packers. Most men couldn't make it through Ranger training, and only a vanishingly small number of women could. My hat's off to anyone who survives the whole regimen and earns the tab. BSBD, Winsor Green Bay Packers? Meh! ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #16 August 18, 2015 If they met the standards, good for them and congrats! If they "modified" the standards in anyway, then the tab was not earned. Combat isn't a game, there are no prizes for second place. Physiologically women are not set up for intense, prolonged, ground combat. If the few that are pass the same standards designed to test and break men, I have no problem with it. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,119 #17 August 18, 2015 skycopIf they met the standards, good for them and congrats! If they "modified" the standards in anyway, then the tab was not earned. Combat isn't a game, there are no prizes for second place. Physiologically women are not set up for intense, prolonged, ground combat. If the few that are pass the same standards designed to test and break men, I have no problem with it. Just making sure that people understand that Ranger School and Ranger Regiment are two seperate things. Making it through Ranger School doesn't get you into the Ranger Regiment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #18 August 18, 2015 This is the best perspective EVER........... http://rhinoden.rangerup.com/time-to-welcome-a-new-era-of-rangers-army/ "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #19 August 18, 2015 It's pretty disgusting that so many people were unable to conceive of the possibility that a woman might have actually passed the course by her own merit. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #20 August 18, 2015 GeorgiaDonIt's pretty disgusting that so many people were unable to conceive of the possibility that a woman might have actually passed the course by her own merit. Don On one hand you have a point, on the other, you weren't there, so you don't know what happened, of if pressure was applied to "adjust" requirements unofficially.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #21 August 18, 2015 >Just making sure that people understand that Ranger School and Ranger >Regiment are two seperate things. Making it through Ranger School doesn't get >you into the Ranger Regiment. Yep. And indeed they are ineligible for the regiment, since they are women. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #22 August 18, 2015 turtlespeed***It's pretty disgusting that so many people were unable to conceive of the possibility that a woman might have actually passed the course by her own merit. Don On one hand you have a point, on the other, you weren't there, so you don't know what happened, of if pressure was applied to "adjust" requirements unofficially.Was Ronhend there? The guy who wrote the article? Anyone else in this thread who responded in the negative? Some, at least, had the guption to admit they may have jumped to a conclusion. It seems some people simply cannot believe that two women could possibly have honestly achieved something that was too tough for 287 men to do. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #23 August 18, 2015 GeorgiaDon It's pretty disgusting that so many people were unable to conceive of the possibility that a woman might have actually passed the course by her own merit. Don It does not surprise me in the slightest that most here in SC would think that way Same shit different day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #24 August 19, 2015 skycopPhysiologically women are not set up for intense, prolonged, ground combat. Human beings are not set up for intense, prolonged, ground combat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,380 #25 August 19, 2015 wolfriverjoeWell, new reports are saying that the two women are going to graduate because they passed the course. I heard on the radio this morning that there is a third woman still in training who could possibly make that 3 women passing the course."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
