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rushmc

*** Ex-students say he wore a ‘Make America Great Again’ hat in school.

“I saw him wear a Trump hat,” said Sebastian Gonzalez, a 19-year-old who graduated in 2017.

Ocean Parodie, a 17-year-old junior, said Cruz was politically extreme.

“For example, he would degrade Islamic people as terrorists and bombers. I've seen him wear a Trump hat,” Parodie said.

Cruz wore the Trump hat in a photo on an Instagram account the company said belonged to him. Over his face he wore a red, white, and blue bandana. On that account and another one, Cruz posted photos of guns, knives, anti-Muslim slurs, and a picture of a toad he killed.

On YouTube, a person by the same name spewed hateful commentary about anti-fascists.

Cruz also celebrated Elliot Rodger, the gunman who killed seven people at the University of California, Santa Barbara in 2014, and who is considered a hero of the fringe men's rights movement.

“Elliot rodger will not be forgotten,” he commented on one video one year ago. Cruz also commented on a CNN video called, “Is our culture to blame for Elliot Rodger’s rants?”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says




Who the hell pays you to post this shit?

HRC, I guess its hard for you to reconcile all of these concepts. Your hero and his motivations together with this shooter and guns.

Ann Coulter

@AnnCoulter

Last September, FBI was sent a screenshot of a comment by nikolas cruz:

"I’m going to be a professional school shooter.”

Unfortunately, the FBI was busy running down Clinton campaign leads about a nonexistent Russian conspiracy with Trump.
http://nyti.ms/2C1v8uE
10:42 AM - Feb 15, 2018

Only a trump supporter could use the tragedy of a school shooting in order to cover up and conceal crimes committed by a president. Who takes money from an industry to enshrine AR-15 protections for 18 year olds.

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Speaking of Heroes. It was sure funny to see Brian Williams face on MSNBC when he interviewed those two boys from the school. Trying to prompt them to support gun control. And they flat said gun control wouldn't help. It was a classic moment.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Hooknswoop

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>there are other options besides gun control, that WILL work.

Great! Let's implement them.



OK! How?

Derek V




We've been through this.

You won't accept giving up ONE right. The right to fire a gun wherever and whenever you want.

Give that one up and you can have ALL the others back. It's enforcable. It would work.

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You and others here keep spewing crap about military weapons and the AR 15

So, would you also ban the Colt 1911 or those in the following link?
They all work the same!

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&qpvt=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&FORM=IGRE
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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And of course Russian bots are using this to their advantage. Why waste the opportunity to advance their agenda?

=========================================
Pro-Gun Russian Bots Flood Twitter After Parkland Shooting

Wired
Feb 15 2018

Each new breaking news situation is an opportunity for trolls to grab attention, provoke emotions, and spread propaganda. The Russian government knows this. Fake-news manufacturing teenagers in Macedonia know this. Twitter bot creators know this. And thanks to data-gathering operations from groups like the Alliance for Securing Democracy and RoBhat Labs, the world knows this.

In the wake of Wednesday’s Parkland, Florida school shooting, which resulted in 17 deaths, troll and bot-tracking sites reported an immediate uptick in related tweets from political propaganda bots and Russia-linked Twitter accounts. Hamilton 68, a website created by Alliance for Securing Democracy, tracks Twitter activity from accounts it has identified as linked to Russian influence campaigns. As of morning, shooting-related terms dominated the site’s trending hashtags and topics, including Parkland, guncontrolnow, Florida, guncontrol, and Nikolas Cruz, the name of the alleged shooter. Popular trending topics among the bot network include shooter, NRA, shooting, Nikolas, Florida, and teacher.

. . .The bots jump on existing hashtags to take control of the conversation and amplify a message. That’s likely what is happening with the Parkland shooting and the hashtag guncontrolnow, Bhat says.

While RoBhat Labs tracks general political bots, Hamilton 68 focuses specifically on those linked to the Russian government. According to the group's data, the top link shared by Russia-linked accounts in the last 48 hours is a 2014 Politifact article that looks critically at a statistic cited by pro-gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety. Twitter accounts tracked by the group have used the old link to try to debunk today’s stats about the frequency of school shootings.

Another top link shared by the network covers the “deranged” Instagram account of the shooter, showing images of him holding guns and knives, wearing army hats, and a screenshot of a Google search of the phrase “Allahu Akbar.” Characterizing shooters as deranged lone wolves with potential terrorist connections is a popular strategy of pro-gun groups because of the implication that new gun laws could not have prevented their actions. On Thursday President Trump tweeted as much: “So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior.”

Meanwhile, some accounts with large bot followings are already spreading misinformation about the shooter's ties to far-left group Antifa, even though the Associated Press reported that he was a member of a local white nationalist group. The Twitter account Education4Libs, which RoBhat Labs shows is one among the top accounts tweeted at by bots, is among the prominent disseminators of that idea.
===========================================

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Seems your sites fit right in.


http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc


Jordan Jereb a leader in the group the Republic of Florida told the Associated Press Cruz “acted on his own behalf.” However, he said Cruz participated in his group’s paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.
http://time.com/5161203/republic-of-florida-nikolas-cruz-white-supremacist-militia/

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Phil1111


Jordan Jereb a leader in the group the Republic of Florida told the Associated Press Cruz “acted on his own behalf.” However, he said Cruz participated in his group’s paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.
http://time.com/5161203/republic-of-florida-nikolas-cruz-white-supremacist-militia/

In direct conflict compared to what local law enforcement is saying.

I know who I'm going to believe. And it ain't you
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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And yet nothing about PA's. You can say people support the murder of children or even go so far as to call NRA members terrorists without a peep from a mod. Guess that happens when you're sleeping with a mod. Can say whatever you want, and all you ever get is the endless supply of "one warnings".
Muff #5048

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What does it matter what group he belonged to or didn't?

His membership (or lack) didn't enable him to go and shoot a bunch of kids. The gun did.

Remove his membership to any group, or make him a member of any other group and he STILL would have had the ability to commit this crime. Remove his ability to actually DO it and you're making a difference.

This is the problem - people get too easily sidetracked by inconsequential factors.

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>You can say people support the murder of children or even go so far as to call NRA
>members terrorists without a peep from a mod.

Yes, you can. You can say gun supporters support the murder of children; you can say all democrats are filthy stinking liars. You can say that NRA are a bunch of terrorists, or that they are more holy and righteous than Jesus Christ himself.

You just can't say those things about the posters here. Attacks on political parties, organizations, religious followers etc are allowed here - in fact, that's what the forum is for, so that sort of crap doesn't end up in the topical forums. You just can't say that Wendy is a filthy stinking liar.

>Guess that happens when you're sleeping with a mod.

You wake up when she snores?

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You wake up when she snores? 



Nope. I sleep just fine. You might want to ask other posters that question as I'm not the one throwing the salami to a mod.

And for the record you are saying that PA'S are ok so long as they're veiled under the guise of "I didn't mean you directly"?
Muff #5048

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>You might want to ask other posters that question as I'm not the one throwing the
>salami to a mod.

Too bad! Some of them are pretty cool.

>And for the record you are saying that PA'S are ok so long as they're veiled under the
>guise of "I didn't mean you directly"?

If you are asking "can someone attack my political party/gun club/organization/religion that I hold near and dear" the answer is yes. If such posts will upset you, do not post here, and do not read the posts here.

If you are asking "can someone attack me through a clever disguise" then the answer is no. For example, you can't say "every poster whose name ends in endy999 is a flaming asshole" and then claim that you were attacking a group and not a specific poster.

If you are asking "but what about if he says . . ." then PM me or another mod directly. Over the years certain posters here have gotten VERY good at pushing the limits of those definitions.

If you want more info, this is from the "Rules" link at the top of every forum:
=======================
No Personal attacks, Flaming and Trolling.
Personal attacks and hate posts will not be tolerated in any forum. Personal attacks on another user are a great way to earn some time off, as is posting inflammatory material specifically to provoke a negative response from someone (aka trolling). If you are unclear about what a 'troll' is, a description can be found here.

Posts that contain material that we deem to be blatantly or unnecessarily racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, pornographic, or otherwise offensive, may be removed. While discussion of certain social and political issues may require the use of sensitive or potentially offensive terms, outside of those limited contexts the use of such terms is not allowed on this board and may be removed.
========================

From the "read before posting here" sticky at the top of this specific forum:
========================
Welcome to Speaker's Corner! This forum is intended for discussions outside skydiving, and was created after certain types of discussions in the Bonfire area (primarily concerning politics, guns and religion) became overly contentious and began driving people away from Bonfire. We recognize that some people want to discuss some of these more-contentious issues, and thus Speaker's Corner was created.

It is important to realize that the rules still apply here as they do anywhere else on Dropzone.com. The primary rules here are:

1. No personal attacks.
2. No jokes about pedophilia.
3. No advertising in the forums.

Personal attacks are any variation on the theme of "you're an idiot." For a discussion of what constitutes a personal attack, see here.

Jokes about pedophilia are never tolerated. The only time it is permissible to discuss it is in reference to a factual issue, such as a public trial where someone is accused of pedophilia.

Note that these are not the only rules. For a more comprehensive list, see the list of rules. Also see here for further clarifications.

Also note that while we will not tolerate hate posts, there is no rule prohibiting attacks against groups or non-DZ.commers. (See here for details on what constitutes a hate post.) Organized religions, political parties, celebrities, presidents, and countries are all fair game. If such posts will upset you, do not read or post to this forum.

Posting here means you accept these rules. If you do not follow them, you may get a warning, be banned from the forum for some period of time, be banned permanently from the forum, or be banned permanently from DZ.com. There is no guarantee of a 'second chance' or of a certain type of banning.

While moderators attempt to monitor all the posts here, it is not practical to read all of them, and we would appreciate your assistance in PMing us when you see posts that you believe violates the above rules. If you see a questionable post and do NOT PM a moderator about it, then we will consider you OK with the content of the post.
============================

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You still gotta play the dick card because you have shit to come back with.

The attacks here are beyond belief. Bill is just as bad.

My wife has nothing to do with my presence or comments here.
Which end because of the hatred in this fucking thread and forum.
She has always avoided my comments and I avoid her moderating.

No worries. Have fun hating and attacking each other.
I plan on contributing where it matters and counts.

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billvon

>
In Australia, after a mass shooting, there was a gun buyback - and they got back 20% of all firearms in Australia, including most rifles. They then prohibited private sales (i.e. the "gun show loophole"), required registration of all weapons, and required presentation of a "genuine reason" to justify purchase of a new weapon.

The results:

59% reduction in homicide by firearm
No attendant increase in homicides by other means (i.e. "they'll just use knives or spoons instead" didn't happen)
Zero mass shooting since.

So such draconian measures do indeed work -



Doing a driveby after that Sarah Huckabee performance by Bill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia

13 massacres in Australia in the 20 years prior to Port Arthur. All appear to be gun based. 77 victims.

And after the ban
12 massacres in the 20 years after. 75 dead. 2 involved guns still, one must adopt a strict definition of mass shooting as 5 dead not including the shooter to say there haven't been any.

But there's also use of knives, blunt objects, a car, and especially fashionable was arson. I supposed being burned to death is better than being shot? No spoons, but the substitution methods are clearly established.

In the US, we tried to solve the problem by selling record numbers of guns, and we reduced fatalities by 50%!

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rushmc

You and others here keep spewing crap about military weapons and the AR 15

So, would you also ban the Colt 1911 or those in the following link?
They all work the same!

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&qpvt=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&FORM=IGRE



I also used to have a 1911. A stainless commander with custom checkered frontstrap, checkered front trigger guard, upgraded adjustable sights and trigger group. It was the project gun for a gunsmith at the Colorado School of Trades gunsmiths course. I sold it for $1250 over 25 years ago.

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds from full auto, ar-15's, on up. I bought my first rock chucker when i was 16, my first Dillon 550 in 1977 and a dillon 650 is among several that I still have.

So I'm a little familiar with how guns work.

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Phil1111

***You and others here keep spewing crap about military weapons and the AR 15

So, would you also ban the Colt 1911 or those in the following link?
They all work the same!

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&qpvt=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&FORM=IGRE



You did not answer the question regarding the Brownings.

I also used to have a 1911. A stainless commander with custom checkered frontstrap, checkered front trigger guard, upgraded adjustable sights and trigger group. It was the project gun for a gunsmith at the Colorado School of Trades gunsmiths course. I sold it for $1250 over 25 years ago.

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds from full auto, ar-15's, on up. I bought my first rock chucker when i was 16, my first Dillon 550 in 1977 and a dillon 650 is among several that I still have.

So I'm a little familiar with how guns work.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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lippy

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In the US, we tried to solve the problem by selling record numbers of guns, and we reduced fatalities by 50%!



From what twisted corner of the Internet did you pull that statistic?



Well, since it is a fact, you can be sure it did not come from CNN, ABC, MSNBC, NBC, CBS or NPR.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

******You and others here keep spewing crap about military weapons and the AR 15

So, would you also ban the Colt 1911 or those in the following link?
They all work the same!

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&qpvt=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&FORM=IGRE



You did not answer the question regarding the Brownings.

I also used to have a 1911. A stainless commander with custom checkered frontstrap, checkered front trigger guard, upgraded adjustable sights and trigger group. It was the project gun for a gunsmith at the Colorado School of Trades gunsmiths course. I sold it for $1250 over 25 years ago.

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds from full auto, ar-15's, on up. I bought my first rock chucker when i was 16, my first Dillon 550 in 1977 and a dillon 650 is among several that I still have.

So I'm a little familiar with how guns work.

In order to prevent mass homicides like school shootings the ability to rechamber rounds semi-automatically, or automatically. Needs to be banned.

The exception would be guides, anyone hunting dangerous game, i.e. grizzly,brown bears, etc. and hunters going to Africa to hunt dangerous game.

The BAR(browning), in your link uses a hinged foreplate to retain the detachable magazine. Its slow to reinsert new magazines. To accommodate the aforementioned law. The BAR would therefor become the BR, with a gunsmith modification to restrict a second round from chambering altogether.

For the uninformed and for your interest, this is how a semi-auto 1911 functions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jig-RvZr1OM

The greatest danger for mass casualties arising from a deranged mind, is intelligence. After the Oklahoma city bombing severe restrictions and reporting requirements were placed on the type of fertilizer used by McVeigh. A McVeigh device at the Las Vegas shooting event last year would have killed 5-10 times as many innocents.

Recently there was an attack on a Syrian/Russian airbase using RPV-small- drones. Drones built in a home workshop. A commercially purchased drone caring a small explosive device. Could be landed on the fuel tank of a A-380, B-777 waiting for takeoff at any airport. The 2-300 tonnes of fuel on either side of 300-400 innocents inside... well it goes unsaid.

In America thats not how the deranged mind formulates vengeance.

For individuals with grievances, right or wrong. A focus for tools to inflict pain, justice, vengeance on the oppressors and/or the innocent. Is guns. Easy to obtain, easy to operate and cheap. Depicted in movies and with a proven track record in schools, concerts, etc.

If the AR-15 needed a .378 weatherby magnum cartridge to penetrate battlefield armor, when designed. They would not be used in school shootings today. The punishing recoil would restrict use to highly trained military troops. Instead it, a semi-auto Glock, etc. are the tools of choice. All easy to get.

For the NRA, for gun owners in America. The concept that you can't hunt, defend yourself, or your home and have fun at the range. Unless 5,10,30, or 100 rounds are instantly available to send downrange. Needs to change and be addressed. By law.

Until then the carnage in America will continue.

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Sorry, I just plain missed the fact that you were attacking another poster's wife. I thought you were going after me.

When PA's happen here, often I let them go if they are really minor, give warnings if not, and use the ban hammer when it continues. But when someone goes after another poster's family - I have zero tolerance for that.

See you in two weeks.

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To no one in particular, I hate seeing these school shootings. But... this one could have been prevented, had the FBI done their due diligence when the perp was reported to them 5-6 months ago.

I support gun rights, to a point. No one with mental issues should have a gun. If someone goes into mental treatment and owns guns, the guns need to be confiscated, either temporary until treatment/recovery is completed, or permanently.

Even then, for someone as disturbed as this school shooter, I am 100% sure he would have figured something out if he could not get a gun. Wasn't there a knife assault at a school where the perp ran down the hallway with knives in both hands and slashing everybody within reach? Then there's the homemade bombs which people could put together if they find the instructions online, and they're motivated enough. Or they could just drive a vehicle into a school or large crowd for maximum effect.

The main thing is identifying WHO is exhibiting questionable/suspicious behavior, and does it make people nervous that the person in question is going to do something egregious in the future? This is what students at the high school said they noticed about the shooter. Somebody fucked up. Not just somebody, but a few or several somebodies. The fucker could have been under surveillance or been watched.

Now on a much happier note... This grandmother is a hero for calling authorities on her grandson, who she realized was planning a school shooting. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/grandmother-foils-teens-plot-to-carry-out-school-shooting/ar-BBJc9GA?li=BBnb7Kz

THIS is what we need to do in the meantime. See something, hear something? Speak up! Call authorities. The sooner the better.

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nolhtairt

To no one in particular, I hate seeing these school shootings. But... this one could have been prevented, had the FBI done their due diligence when the perp was reported to them 5-6 months ago.

I support gun rights, to a point. No one with mental issues should have a gun. If someone goes into mental treatment and owns guns, the guns need to be confiscated, either temporary until treatment/recovery is completed, or permanently.

Even then, for someone as disturbed as this school shooter, I am 100% sure he would have figured something out if he could not get a gun. Wasn't there a knife assault at a school where the perp ran down the hallway with knives in both hands and slashing everybody within reach? Then there's the homemade bombs which people could put together if they find the instructions online, and they're motivated enough. Or they could just drive a vehicle into a school or large crowd for maximum effect.

The main thing is identifying WHO is exhibiting questionable/suspicious behavior, and does it make people nervous that the person in question is going to do something egregious in the future? This is what students at the high school said they noticed about the shooter. Somebody fucked up. Not just somebody, but a few or several somebodies. The fucker could have been under surveillance or been watched.

Now on a much happier note... This grandmother is a hero for calling authorities on her grandson, who she realized was planning a school shooting. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/grandmother-foils-teens-plot-to-carry-out-school-shooting/ar-BBJc9GA?li=BBnb7Kz

THIS is what we need to do in the meantime. See something, hear something? Speak up! Call authorities. The sooner the better.



Bullshit.

Do you really think it'll solve anything for high school children to call the police every time they think the loner kid is being a little weird? High school children do weird things, they say stupid shit on Social Media, they get angry and get dramatic, they make the wrong moves. There has already been one kid who sent his friend a snapchat as a joke with himself holding a gun and he got himself a visit by the full staff of the local sheriff's department because the other kid's mom saw it.

That's not to say that these clues aren't worth looking into but it's not something that as a policy will change anything.

Other countries have exactly the same spread of mental health issues as we do and some of them are even worse. The difference is that they don't have shootings ANYWHERE near to the extent that we do. The real question is: Why is that?
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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I support gun rights, to a point. No one with mental issues should have a gun. If someone goes into mental treatment and owns guns, the guns need to be confiscated, either temporary until treatment/recovery is completed, or permanently.



Agreed there. I support gun rights for sane, law abiding adults. Outside that group, restrictions make sense.

Quote

The main thing is identifying WHO is exhibiting questionable/suspicious behavior, and does it make people nervous that the person in question is going to do something egregious in the future? This is what students at the high school said they noticed about the shooter. Somebody fucked up. Not just somebody, but a few or several somebodies. The fucker could have been under surveillance or been watched.


While that's a great sentiment, it's not a solution. I can think of half a dozen people at Perris who have "exhibited questionable/suspicious behavior." So what's next for them? Call the cops? Tell them "hey, I saw this tandem master at the DZ, I don't know his last name, but he reads gun magazines all the time, and he got into a fight in a local bar one night."

Or let's use a more direct example. Let's say someone here starts acting "questionable/suspicious." Says they support gun right absolutely and universally, talk about them all the time, and expresses irrational anger at liberals. When there's a school shooting they blame videogames and "the media." And they occasionally post "x deserves to die!" (x being a Muslim extremist or something like that.) Should I get as much online info on them as possible and call the police on them? If I don't call the cops, did I "fuck up?"

I don't think that would work. Any policing that relies on people looking for other people acting "questionable" is doomed to failure.

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