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kallend

More mass shootings

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Anvilbrother

There is a flaw in that thinking I believe. You are choosing the most deadly and problematic weapon the US is facing and applying your beliefs. If this were the UK where the most problematic and deadly weapon is a knife would you say the same about steak knives needing to be locked up in a safe? Isn't it really the fault of the criminal in the end. Why is the fault of the knife owner.



I’m curious as to why you are dispensing knowledge of how things work in the UK. If you want to have a good understanding of the world, you’ll need a few more stamps in your passport (something the majority of Americans do not even have).

Regarding knives in the UK, here you go:
It is illegal to:

- sell a knife of any kind to anyone under 18 years old (16 to 18 year olds in Scotland can buy cutlery and kitchen knives)

- carry a knife in public without good reason - unless it’s a knife with a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less, eg a Swiss Army knife

- carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife

- use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife)

Lock knives (knives with blades that can be locked when unfolded) are not folding knives, and are illegal to carry in public without good reason.


Of course, we don't ban anything that is sharp, but we (and all other advanced nations) find it sensible that the populace is not running around with guns. Hunting is fine; packing a semi-auto handgun to go buy ice cream; not such a good idea.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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All those laws for knives, and still half the homicides are still occurring.

The UK demonstrates it perfectly! Almost no guns compared to the U.S., so the next thing you start killing everyone with knives. Knives are your gun problem, but bill won't admit that it sounds silly as hell to apply his argument of gun safes to you also.

Also amost all of the laws you listed apply to most parts of America also.

I don't need a stamp although I have many. I have the unlimited power of Google and stats. The world is not so large anymore.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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rushmc

***

Quote

When a level of neglegence is involved everything changes
If I leave a load gun in the yard there is a level of neglegence involved.

Not the same if I leave that same loaded gun in my locked house.



Yet taking an object from a locked house, an unlocked house or an open, private yard are all theft.

Hence, you do clearly believe that as an owner you bare some responsibility for some one stealing your gun and using it for nefarious purposes.

You just draw the line at "locked house".



What right do you have to tell me what I have to do with my objects in my house?

All my other valuable stuff is protected by that locked door.

I see locking my door as a reasonable precaution
Anti gun activists whould have us go further and have another level of precaution regarding guns

Linking these all together to just call a theft a theft is a dishonest argument

Locked doors don't stop a determined burglar. A locked door AND a wireless burglar alarm with warning signs posted does a much better job. I should know. Not one attempted break-in since the alarm was installed.
There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

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Anvilbrother

I have the unlimited power of Google and stats. The world is not so large anymore.



If you see another group doing something better; by all means copy them and try it yourself.

It’s not all anti USA. I think both our CAA/EASA and BPA would be well served to copy your FAA and USPA respectively.

I’ve travelled to over 80 countries and have lived on three continents. No, I don’t think web searches are a substitute for experiencing a different culture first hand.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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Driver1

******

Quote

When a level of neglegence is involved everything changes
If I leave a load gun in the yard there is a level of neglegence involved.

Not the same if I leave that same loaded gun in my locked house.



Yet taking an object from a locked house, an unlocked house or an open, private yard are all theft.

Hence, you do clearly believe that as an owner you bare some responsibility for some one stealing your gun and using it for nefarious purposes.

You just draw the line at "locked house".



What right do you have to tell me what I have to do with my objects in my house?

All my other valuable stuff is protected by that locked door.

I see locking my door as a reasonable precaution
Anti gun activists whould have us go further and have another level of precaution regarding guns

Linking these all together to just call a theft a theft is a dishonest argument

Locked doors don't stop a determined burglar. A locked door AND a wireless burglar alarm with warning signs posted does a much better job. I should know. Not one attempted break-in since the alarm was installed.

I have the same
But I did not install it just because of guns
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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kallend

***Agreed.


It's not like criminals steal stuff.
:P



Thieves don't obey laws against theft anyway, so what's the point of laws against theft?

I wonder how many times people like him have had visitors with young inquisitive children over for a holiday or seeing their irresponsible grandpa....

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Here's a nice responsible gun owner - talks safety just like you and anvilbrother:

www.statesville.com/news/father-talked-guns-safety-hours-before-shooting/article_5447be90-3f08-11e5-9025-1784c43f4be9.html

Shot and killed his two sons yesterday.

Seems he was a conservative, Bible thumping, homophobic, Confederate flag waving advocate of always carrying. This image is from his Facebook page: freakoutnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Fuller-FB.jpg

Just a few hours earlier he was shopping in a store: “He had a gun on his belt,” Simko said of her interaction with Fuller earlier in the day. “He told (the clerk) he wouldn’t shop anywhere he couldn’t bring his gun.”

Yep, nice, responsible guy.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Anvilbrother

The UK version care to address it?

Proportion of homicides: 39% Sharp object
http://www.statista.com/statistics/288166/homicide-method-of-killing-in-england-and-wales-uk-by-gender/\

The knife homicide is their U.S. gun problem. Now insert your thinking

Quote

They are responsible for firing stabbing the weapon knife. You are responsible for making it accessible to them



You mandating everyone lock up their steak knives in the UK too?



Ummmm NO.

US firearm homicides average around 70% of total. Knives and other sharp instruments around 13%

UK knives comprise 39% of homicides according to you. Last time I checked, 39<70 by a long way.

The USA has a murder rate way way higher than any other western democracy, and the overwhelming majority are by guns.

The per capita knife murder rate in the UK is about the same as that in the USA. So the UK in fact has no greater knife problem than the USA. The difference in overall rate is due to one weapon only - the gun.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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The per capita knife murder rate in the UK is about the same as that in the USA. So the UK in fact has no greater knife problem than the USA. The difference in overall rate is due to one weapon only - the gun.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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You know the argument I am trying to make and are acting obtuse to avoid the realities. It deals with the two largest methods of homicide between the two countries. One is a knife because guns are for all purposes compared to the US scarce.

This argument is used not to compare rates between countries, but the sources of available homicide. The US is obviously gun. The UK is obviously knife. Now that we have established them as being the top methods of homicide in each country respectively. Now apply the argument that they should be required to lock all knives in a safe.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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So extrapolating this hillbilly method of reason, if say cholesterol and heart disease are the major killers; we should lock away all the fried chicken in a safe?
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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>So extrapolating this hillbilly method of reason, if say cholesterol and heart
>disease are the major killers; we should lock away all the fried chicken in a
>safe?

Nope; feel free to eat all the fried chicken you like, because then the only person you will harm will be yourself. That is unfortunately not the case with gun negligence.

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billvon

>Of course if I shoot through my walls and inujure someone I should be held
>responsible

Yes. You are also responsible for taking sufficient care with your weapons so that that doesn't happen. Which is why I support laws that require safe storage of weapons.

>If someone breaks into my house and shoots someone through the walls I
>should NOT be held responcible.

They are responsible for firing the weapon. You are responsible for making it accessible to them.



if the gun is in storage when the guy is cleaning it, then yes, he should have used safe storage. But it wasn't was it? Now if you want to charge him with negligence for shooting his neighbor through the wall, go ahead.

Same with a thief breaking in shooting your gun. he could do that anyways if he has time to get into a locked closet etc. It's him breaking into the house that is the root cause of that scenario...
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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>Same with a thief breaking in shooting your gun. he could do that anyways if
>he has time to get into a locked closet etc.

Right. But he wouldn't need the time to do that if the gun was loaded and just sitting on the coffee table in plain sight of the front window. The gun owner's irresponsibility in that case would be a factor in the subsequent shooting.

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normiss

Sadly, way too many Americans are ignorant of the rest of the world.
It's uncomfortably funny how arrogant most of them are about it.
:D:D:D



it's uncomfortably funny how arrogant many Europeans are about life in the usa...
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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RMK

So extrapolating this hillbilly method of reason, if say cholesterol and heart disease are the major killers; we should lock away all the fried chicken in a safe?



uhh, no you shouldn't ... That's the point. You don't like fried chicken, don't eat it. Don't tell me I can't....

Sheesh. You still don't understand, do you?
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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Ooh but he has been to 80 countries so his perception trumps factual statistics, reasoning, and polite conversation skills tho. It's funny I am NEVER rude with anyone first until they fire the first shot, and around here it only takes a few replies to start getting insults from them.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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I lived in the US for 17yrs; how much time have you spent in Europe?

I'll be the first to note that travel cost money; so it is a function of disposable income. I don't deride those that don't travel because they can't afford to. But I don't understand those who have the means yet no desire to ever see the rest of the world.

Likewise, I can Google Louisiana, but you know more what living there is like than I do.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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Less than a year in Amsterdam, and in Brussels. My wife travels a month at a time for her job, and when I have the time and school is out I go with her and lodge on Albermarle's dime.

No one is asking about GDP or customs, it's facts based off of statistics. I don't need to know that it's delicious to eat french fries dipped in a mayo ketchup mix in the Netherlands, or the ferry times to cross the river to know that the knife is most used weapon in homicides in the UK.....

nor do I need to be told that my thinking on this topic is hillbilly by someone as arrogant as you who thinks that traveling has made you some all knowing seer.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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Yes but if the per capita knife murder/manslaughter rate is equal then then knife homicides can be canceled between the countries meaning that if guns were removed along with the gun culture then the per capita homicide rate would equal the UKs.


The other benefit of banning all guns and realistic imitations is that If a MOP sees someone on the street with a gun (which in a city the use is only to kill, in self defence or otherwise) they can be swiftly delt with aggressively to lower the risk to all involved.

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All of this has turned into a GUN vs KNIFE argument. It never was. It was HIGHEST rate of HOMICIDE METHOD vs HIGHEST rate of HOMICIDE METHOD. I chose UK due to the fact that the gun problem is controlled and people are still being killed by the NEXT available means

Billvon said all guns should be locked up as it is a METHOD OF HOMICIDE that kills so many people in the US but he does not acknowledge(?)(who knows because he refused to answer) If the same should be done to knives the HIGHEST METHOD OF HOMICIDE in the UK.

Its not about who kills more with what weapon its about controlling the largest instrument of homicide in an area. If locking guns up helps here why is he silent if I asked him about locking all steak knives up in the UK.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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