Southern_Man 0 #1 August 5, 2015 http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/the-chutzpah-of-a-police-union-in-orange-county-california/400502/ I am so tired of this. Guns drawn raid for a misdemeanor. Well past time for this nonesense to end."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 August 5, 2015 Southern_Man http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/the-chutzpah-of-a-police-union-in-orange-county-california/400502/ I am so tired of this. Guns drawn raid for a misdemeanor. Well past time for this nonesense to end. Twitch sucka... and I get another notch on my six shooter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #3 August 5, 2015 I don't understand why there is not more public backlash against this half-assed policing in the US. They just love to dress up in riot gear and get their guns out. Must have read too many superhero comics as children. Now the idiot police are complaining about being caught: http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/04/suspended-cops-say-video-of-them-eating"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #4 August 5, 2015 how can they justify destroying the surveillance system??You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #5 August 5, 2015 How can they justify stating that they wanted to physically abuse an amputee? How can they justify consuming marijuana on the job?"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #6 August 5, 2015 Rick how can they justify destroying the surveillance system?? They shouldn't be able to. Their complaint is that a couple of cops were undercover, and once they thought they got them all disabled, the cops took their masks off. Still doesn't make what they did overall, right. If I were the chief of police, I'd suspend the cops involved for a month without pay, at the very least. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #7 August 5, 2015 Southern_ManHow can they justify stating that they wanted to physically abuse an amputee? How can they justify consuming marijuana on the job? Who can even begin to justify this type of GANG VIOLENCE on American citizens.... and apparently the GANG members include Judges in bed with them as well. I think this kind of malfeasance would need to be dealt with as a FELONY and none of these tools EVER allowed to have any power OR weapons ever again... like any other FELON should be treated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,047 #8 August 5, 2015 Hi Southern, QuoteI am so tired of this. Last week, in another thread, there was a discussion about having a non-LEO as the head of all LEO organizations. As I posted then: The first step must be to decertify the unions. Everybody should read that at least one more time. It will never get any better until this happens. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #9 August 5, 2015 Makes me wish that people would be more selective in the cops that they shoot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #10 August 5, 2015 Not all departments have unions, not all unions are recognized or even allowed to cooperate with departments though. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #11 August 5, 2015 JerryBaumchenHi Southern, QuoteI am so tired of this. Last week, in another thread, there was a discussion about having a non-LEO as the head of all LEO organizations. As I posted then: The first step must be to decertify the unions. Everybody should read that at least one more time. It will never get any better until this happens. Jerry Baumchen Hi Jerry, Honestly I don't think Unions are really at the root of the problem. I don't think they are exactly helping anything, but I don't believe that is the root cause. Too much of this is cultural, from police having a view that everybody they come in contact with is the enemy and a threat. Such an attitude has many causes and contributors such as the increasing use of military technology in local police departments (because if I have a hammer...), the idea that they will not be held accountable, etc. Having civilian leadership would surely help. Decertifying unions might help (although the thick blue line is firmly in place in many localities with weak or nonexistent unions, etc. Just my thoughts."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #12 August 5, 2015 The problem I see with these unions is that they protect the bad cops way too much. Makes it really tough to fire anybody that's broken the law, or rules of engagement. I'm not sure what cops have to rely on if their force is not unionized though.There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,119 #13 August 5, 2015 It's tough in a lot of government jobs, be they local, state or national,'to get rid of the incompetent. Some of that was earned by the wholesale exercise of patronage though. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #14 August 5, 2015 Driver1The problem I see with these unions is that they protect the bad cops way too much. Makes it really tough to fire anybody that's broken the law, or rules of engagement. I'm not sure what cops have to rely on if their force is not unionized though. Unions are in the business of making money. Yes, they protect cops but that is their job. Get as much benefit for their members as possible. And if a member gets canned, that is one less dues paying member. So they negotiate protections and enforce those protections. But the unions aren't the root of it. The root of it is that the People got the police forces they said they wanted. The Daryl Gates model of the LAPD took hold. SWAT raids became more commonplace. SWAT now uses old military gear. And as if to show how bad ass they are dress up in military uniforms. (I mean, come on. Wearing desert BDUs in Missouri?). And no-knock warrants on anyone and everyone. Those kids were selling lemonade without a license and if the police knock to serve it evidence will be destroyed and a reliable anonymous informant has told police that the 8 year-old has been known to weild a recoiless rifle and is a threat. thus, the BATF, the State Police, the FBI, DHS and the FDA will be assisting the sheriff in this raid. They can't be too careful or someone could die or get hurt. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #15 August 5, 2015 Southern_Man Honestly I don't think Unions are really at the root of the problem. I don't think they are exactly helping anything, but I don't believe that is the root cause. Too much of this is cultural, from police having a view that everybody they come in contact with is the enemy and a threat. Also, in this case, the insane laws against recording police officers. The union wouldn't have a leg to stand on (pun intended, unfortunately) if they couldn't argue, even with their most twisted of logic, that the recording was illegal.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #16 August 5, 2015 QuoteUnions are in the business of making monet SOME unions are in the business of making money. The union for SGFD here has about $20k for lawyer stuff, the rest goes to helping members family's with cancer etc. Small items are voted on for station improvements like Tv's and exercise equipment. Before the union takes on any big cases for the guys it gets voted on. If the guy is getting screwed they help him, if he fucked up they don't waste money for silliness they tell him he is on his own. That's what unions should be like. Also it has been linked here before that almost 50% of the departments in the nation have less then 10 people on the payroll TOTAL. with that number of people I doubt they have a union or that it is even big enough to make some large bank roll. IMO Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #17 August 6, 2015 RMKI don't understand why there is not more public backlash against this half-assed policing in the US. They just love to dress up in riot gear and get their guns out. Must have read too many superhero comics as children. Now the idiot police are complaining about being caught: http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/04/suspended-cops-say-video-of-them-eating Then we should ban comic books to alleviate this behavior.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #18 August 6, 2015 QuoteAlso it has been linked here before that almost 50% of the departments in the nation have less then 10 people on the payroll TOTAL. with that number of people I doubt they have a union or that it is even big enough to make some large bank roll. IMO Can one union only represent one department?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #19 August 6, 2015 Yes we tried to start one but our chief said he did not want anyone else bringing it up, we then tried to join SGFD's uniin and were not allowed to. So as a comprimise we were able to start an "employee relations" meeting where one day out of the month the chief listens to people's complaints but 90% of it just goes over his head and nothing is done. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 4 #20 August 6, 2015 AnvilbrotherYes we tried to start one but our chief said he did not want anyone else bringing it up, we then tried to join SGFD's uniin and were not allowed to. So as a comprimise we were able to start an "employee relations" meeting where one day out of the month the chief listens to people's complaints but 90% of it just goes over his head and nothing is done. No a union can represent more then one department or company. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #21 August 6, 2015 jakee*** Honestly I don't think Unions are really at the root of the problem. I don't think they are exactly helping anything, but I don't believe that is the root cause. Too much of this is cultural, from police having a view that everybody they come in contact with is the enemy and a threat. Also, in this case, the insane laws against recording police officers. The union wouldn't have a leg to stand on (pun intended, unfortunately) if they couldn't argue, even with their most twisted of logic, that the recording was illegal. This really is insanely twisted logic. Courts have already ruled that it is legal to record police officers when they are performing their duties and that they have no expectation of a right to privacy. I have no idea why courts even entertain such arguments anymore. They were in public, they were performing public duties (Sort of)."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #22 August 6, 2015 We tried. Each department had to set up their own local. True it's under the same IAFF Union parent organization but had to be separate locals for each FD. BFD, SGFD, ZFD, ESFD ETC. We were told we could not start a local by our chief and was told not to bring it up again. We can not join another departments local, although you can merge once you have one but that brings us back to the first issue. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,047 #23 August 6, 2015 Hi Anvil, QuoteWe were told we could not start a local by our chief and was told not to bring it up again. I am not a labor expert. But, I think you've been handed a whole lot of horsepuckey. Right up there with: My ex-wife's 2nd cousin's son said . . . . . Contact your congress critter and get in touch with their staff member who handles issues regarding the Dep't. of Labor. Just a thought, Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #24 August 6, 2015 Agreed, this is only two months in the making. At this juncture we are surveying all involved and thinking if the fight will be worth it in the end. At this point our biggest indicator we need one is the adamant objection of starting a union from the chief. We take the objections as a sign of how much he is going to start following procedures and laws if we get a union. He has been overheard saying there is always a loophole, or a way to get something done the way he wants it when it comes to following the rules when dealing with us. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #25 August 6, 2015 AnvilbrotherYes we tried to start one but our chief said he did not want anyone else bringing it up, we then tried to join SGFD's uniin and were not allowed to. So as a comprimise we were able to start an "employee relations" meeting where one day out of the month the chief listens to people's complaints but 90% of it just goes over his head and nothing is done. Don't cha just love the rights of working people in the south.... ain't that just great???? This is what happens when you continually vote agin all yall's best interests Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
