Cincinnati cop faces murder charge in driver's killing

[airdvr 197]

Quote

CINCINNATI -- A University of Cincinnati police officer who shot a motorist during a traffic stop over a missing front license plate has been indicted on murder charges.

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/ohio/2015/07/29/cincinnati-cop-faces-murder-charge-in-drivers-killing/30833417/

From what I've seen and read this is as it should be. Unfortunately it casts another shadow of doubt over law enforcement.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[skycop 0]

Can't and won't defend this one.
At the very least the officer made a very bad tactical use of force decision, at the most it was a conscious act.
The Hamilton County Prosecutor doesn't play games, if he says he is going after this guy, he will.
If any other officers made false statements he will go after them too.
This is the second incident in the last year, where I shake my head and say "why would you do that".
With that said the guy is innocent until proven guilty, and deserves due process just like anyone else.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[airdvr 197]

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/2015/07/29/publish/30830777/

Bodycam video.

It does bother me that the victim attempted to flee in his car. You'd have to be in a cave not to know at this point, regardless of right v. wrong, that it's a much better decision to comply with the requests of law enforcement personnel than it is to attempt escape.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[skycop 0]

Exactly true BUT:
It went from 0-100 in less than a second, it was a really poor decision to reach into the car. Unless you are trying to save someone's life, reaching in a car hardly ever has a good outcome, and is a bad tactical decision.

LEO's make split-second decisions, he unnecessarily escalated the situation, the decision was self induced and most likely a violation of policy.

This was also a University officer, not a city cop, there is a big difference between the two.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Anvilbrother 0]

Bet he won't try to drive away again.

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[pchapman 261]

airdvr

It does bother me that the victim attempted to flee in his car.

Definitely!
A lot of media make it sound like some innocent guy who the cop just shot.

But then one watches the video.

The motorist held his door closed and started his engine, and a brief struggle ensued. Since the car rolled at some point, it likely was moved into gear. So in the cop's mind, the guy was attempting to escape, and was struggling with him. And the car may even have started moving, thus the "dragged with the car" idea in the cops mind -- even if it was for 2 ft at 1 mph. It is hard to tell from the video, but I could see someone fearing for their life -- someone grabs your arm that's through a car window and starts driving?

The cop may have been incredibly hasty to use his gun -- but the motorist was not the total innocent some of the news is portraying. Poorly done by the news media. (And I'm saying this as a slightly left of centre Canadian.)

I'm not sure what the penalty should be for struggling with and trying to flee from a cop by car. Probably not to be instantly shot. But it is behaviour that goes beyond just innocent contempt of cop.

[Kadde 0]

Anvilbrother

Bet he won't try to drive away again.

Attempt of a bad joke? Whats the point? Want people to come with stupid oneliners when you die?

Even looks like he is being shot before the car takes off and that it is just a result of his dead foot sitting on the gas pedal.

[Anvilbrother 0]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows_humor

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[Anvilbrother 0]

Is it completely clear that he purposly discharged his weapon? or despite proper form had his finger in the trigger guard and the action of driving away caused the weapon to discharge by contact with the vehicle?

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[gowlerk 1,904]

Anvilbrother

Is it completely clear that he purposly discharged his weapon? or despite proper form had his finger in the trigger guard and the action of driving away caused the weapon to discharge by contact with the vehicle?

I guess those questions will be answered in the trial.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Anvilbrother 0]

I'm guessing the first because of the charge but there is a lot of changes that can be made I guess between now and the end of a trial as far as charges go.

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[skypuppy 1]

skycop

Can't and won't defend this one.
At the very least the officer made a very bad tactical use of force decision, at the most it was a conscious act.
The Hamilton County Prosecutor doesn't play games, if he says he is going after this guy, he will.
If any other officers made false statements he will go after them too.
This is the second incident in the last year, where I shake my head and say "why would you do that".
With that said the guy is innocent until proven guilty, and deserves due process just like anyone else.

didn't look like murder to me. maybe manslaughter or negligent homicide, but the cop was in danger, so I don't think he set out with any intent to murder someone on that shift.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Kadde 0]

Unless you were the person in the car, this doesnt really apply to you.

[normiss 622]

How, exactly, was he ever in "danger".
Someone leaving, away from said officer???
He slaughtered him before any threat even started.

Thankfully, those in the right places are starting to see this type of action for what it is.

[Amazon 7]

normiss

How, exactly, was he ever in "danger".
Someone leaving, away from said officer???
He slaughtered him before any threat even started.

Thankfully, those in the right places are starting to see this type of action for what it is.

I guess the default statements for the recordings need something new..... the "I thought he was going to run me over" or "stop resisting" are just not cutting it with body cams.....

[DiverMike 5]

Quote

How, exactly, was he ever in "danger".

Being in Danger is a perceived state. Hanging from a 182 strut while wearing a functioning rig does not seem dangerous to most of us, but it does to whuffos.

The prosecutor Joe Deters has indicated the cop was angry and or annoyed at the driver so he just murdered him.

I've watched the body cam video several times. I wasn't there, but what I speculate happened is the cop perceived he was in danger when he was leaning into a car that attempting to drive away. It wasn't the brightest idea to lean into the car, but it appears to me he considers himself in danger and draws his weapon.

Further speculation on my part is he didn't intend to shoot the dude. He just didn't have good trigger control and the movement of the car and/or struggle with the occupant caused him to squeeze off a round.

I live in Cincinnati. I think a lot of this has been orchestrated to avoid having another race riot like we did in 2001. I am willing to bet a jump ticket there will be unrest when this comes to trial in a couple years.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[skycop 0]

I agree,
There are many explanations, very few lead to an intentional act.

I think the kid just overreacted, panicked, or a combination of both.

Putting a young university cop in this situation was a bad ides to begin with. For those not familiar, the University Of Cincinnati is located in the city with potentially dicey neighborhoods on all sides. They were contracted with to assist the Cincinnati Police with off-campus patrols in the vicinity of the university.

I'm not disrespecting the university police, they operate in a different environment, using them to police inner-city neighborhoods is just not a good idea.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[airdvr 197]

DiverMike

I live in Cincinnati. I think a lot of this has been orchestrated to avoid having another race riot like we did in 2001. I am willing to bet a jump ticket there will be unrest when this comes to trial in a couple years.

My step-daughter graduated from UC. I know the area and it is 'the hood' to be sure. I can see how the prosecutor might have felt put upon by the local climate.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jakee 1,254]

DiverMike

I've watched the body cam video several times. I wasn't there, but what I speculate happened is the cop perceived he was in danger when he was leaning into a car that attempting to drive away. It wasn't the brightest idea to lean into the car, but it appears to me he considers himself in danger and draws his weapon.

Further speculation on my part is he didn't intend to shoot the dude. He just didn't have good trigger control and the movement of the car and/or struggle with the occupant caused him to squeeze off a round.

Ok, but the thing about that is that no matter what the motivation or intention it's still all the cops fault. He learned into the car, he initiated a struggle, he fired his weapon.

In any other situation, for anyone but a cop, if you point a gun at someone in anger and it goes off, you're a murderer.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DiverMike 5]

Quote

for anyone but a cop

Police have the power to detain and arrest. You and I do not. They have the authority to lean into a car to attempt to remove the keys of someone who is attempting to leave (not a good idea, but they can do it). Police 'initiate struggles' when perpetrators resist arrest.

A key part of the trial might be determining if the cop was angry, or fearful the driver was about to cause imminent bodily harm to him. I don't see anything in the video that indicates the cop was shooting out of anger.

Stupid mistake that ended a life.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[Amazon 7]

DiverMike

Quote

for anyone but a cop

Police have the power to detain and arrest. You and I do not. They have the authority to lean into a car to attempt to remove the keys of someone who is attempting to leave (not a good idea, but they can do it). Police 'initiate struggles' when perpetrators resist arrest.

A key part of the trial might be determining if the cop was angry, or fearful the driver was about to cause imminent bodily harm to him. I don't see anything in the video that indicates the cop was shooting out of anger.

Stupid mistake that ended a life.

Mr Dubose forget basic driving while black protocols

[skycop 0]

Quote

Ok, but the thing about that is that no matter what the motivation or intention it's still all the cops fault. He learned into the car, he initiated a struggle, he fired his weapon.

This is a good observation, he initiated the struggle, one that was not necessary at that point. He also leaned into the car, a very poor tactical decision.

These could be policy violations, these policies are in place to prevent exactly what happened, from happening.

When it all went bad he immediately drew his weapon and fired, there should be other options available before escalating that fast.

I'm curious to see what detailed analysis shows from the video. I've included a picture of what his supporters are saying shows he was dragged. It would be interesting to see the actual measurements.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 622]

The direction of travel appears off. Is that the same pole?

[skycop 0]

Not sure,
Would appear the same direction.
His car ended up farther up the street, on the left part of the corner.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 622]

Looks like other side of street.