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rushmc

Planned Parenthood and the term "slippery slope" .

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rehmwa

***If you want to claim that PP should be classified as a "for profit" business because they take in more than they need to operate, I am good with that. My only condition would be that this is applied equally to ALL non-profit organizations including any church/mosque/synagogue that takes in more than they require to operate. We shouldn't be selective, if we are going to redefine how non-profits are categorized it should be across the board. Would you agree, or is it just the NPs that you don't like that we should single out and apply different rules to?



YES - this is a great idea. All these groups are capable of being self sustaining.

Well, except those that aren't...and it shouldn't be a matter of "capability." Either you ARE self sustaining, or not. Even then, wtf is "self sustaining? I can sustain a church with a bag of peanuts and a box of wine...who wants that?

If there is any positivity in Christianity today, it is certainly not from my bitter sweet lip and drunken tongue....it's coming from the thousands of small churches around the country that are preaching a legitimate message and providing for their community....These are the churches that would ultimately "feel the pain" if taxed.

Now...perhaps you're no so much a vengeful bigot. Perhaps you'll say, ok, maybe those small churches shouldn't be taxed - but them big mega monster christian churches need to learn some humility....

Ok...I agree. I've worked for some of them. They are. They are monsters....evil, greedy, demons...whatever.

They are very politically motivated and extremely powerful. You can tax them all you want, but they're gonna want something more in return...and personally, I think have too much control as it is...
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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tkhayes



They are not baby parts. Baby has a specific legal and medical definition. you do not get to redefine it to suit your own needs.



But you'd kinda sound like a dick if you said that to a new mom having an ultrasound:

Mom:
"Oh, look at the baby's little hand..."
"Oh, look at the baby's little foot..."
"Oh my, is that his penis?"

"Oh...hehe...the baby just kicked!"

Buzzkill Hayes:
"Look lady, it's not a fucking baby ok?

Quit using normal people words for medical jargon that has been redefined by the law to suit it's own needs!"
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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Coreeece

Now...perhaps you're no so much a vengeful bigot....



Well, playing a card of some kind there did you? I've seen your posts, you're a better person than that.

Seems, we found the preferential tax treatment you want then didn't we?

IMO - church is a business, like any other. None of them should be given special treatment - taxes or penalties.

church does not equal religion, nor does church or religion equal faith

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Abortions are neither free nor easy, and it's illegal to use government money for them.

The estimate for post-24 weeks is less than 2000/year (from Wikipedia on late-term abortion), and that doesn't break down which were elective, which were to save the life of the mother, which were for fatal fetal abnormalities.

While that's more than the estimate of already-born children killed by accidental gunshot per year, it's way less than the number hospitalized for gunshot wounds.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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rehmwa

***Now...perhaps you're no so much a vengeful bigot....



Well, playing a card of some kind there did you? I've seen your posts, you're a better person than that.

No, no...that pretty much sums up my view of most atheists here - and I have no problem saying it.

If it helps, I didn't mean it as personally as it sounded...I certainly think more highly of you.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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Human tissue is used in research all the time. You and your kind are merely trying to spin an ordinary non issue to try and make it support your narrow moral beliefs.



...your kind? what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

to date I have been ambivalent on this issue, choosing to not take a side because abortion, as a choice, is deeply personal and i don't have to live with that choice.

however, these videos and the implications make me physically ill.

your callous response to the OP leads me to believe that the videos have not affected you at all.

I can only hope that this is not the case.

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littlestranger


your callous response to the OP leads me to believe that the videos have not affected you at all.
I can only hope that this is not the case.




Personally, these videos haven't affected me at all - at least not in my outlook. They were definitely unpleasant to watch.... but as a society we sometimes choose to be shielded to some of the unpleasant realities of the world we live in.

Some people are perfectly happy to eat chicken until they see the video of a battery farm.

Some people are perfectly happy to use cosmetics until they see a video of how those cosmetics are tested on animals.

Some people are perfectly happy with their government going to war until they start to see videos of the torture and killing of civilians that happens.

I try to make myself aware of the realities of all of these types of situations so that I can make informed decisions. Some people prefer not to know...

Personally I did some pretty distasteful things to rodents as part of one of my degrees. I hope that I advanced the treatment of Parkinsons just a tiny bit to make it worthwhile. I see this as a similar issue - extremely distressing to watch (which is why it's not a TV show), but the choice to do it is absolutely necessary.

I watch the videos to remind myself that it may be upsetting, but that it's really nothing to do with me - the choice to abort a foetus is entirely the parents. Some people may call that callous and uncaring. I call people who think they should interfere arrogant and controlling. C'est la vie.
Once I remember that, then for me it's purely a case of not wasting the biological samples which may be used to further treatment and medical causes.


It's not pleasant and shouldn't be celebrated. But it's absolutely their right and we should make the effort to make the most out of the situation.


This is an extremely difficult topic, which is one of the reasons my previous posts were targeted solely on (what I see) as the legal flaws in Rushmc's arguments.

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>Buzzkill Hayes:
>"Look lady, it's not a fucking baby ok?"

Close. The actual terminology techs and OB-GYN's use early in the pregnancy around here is "your pregnancy" up to about week 22. That terminology is used so that if they determine that the fetus will not be viable, they can say "your pregnancy isn't going to be successful" and not put the mother through any more trauma than she's already going to go through.

(Rather than, to use your terminology, "your baby is fucking dead, OK?")

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wmw999

Abortions are neither free nor easy, and it's illegal to use government money for them. Wrong, Obama lied to some of his own Democrates to get them to vote for Obamacare. If anyone thinks PP is not using federal funds they get to do the same I got a bridge to sell them

The estimate for post-24 weeks is less than 2000/year (from Wikipedia on late-term abortion), and that doesn't break down which were elective, which were to save the life of the mother, which were for fatal fetal abnormalities.CBO estimated over 7000. Other reports estimated 11,000 late term abortion

While that's more than the estimate of already-born children killed by accidental gunshot per year, it's way less than the number hospitalized for gunshot wounds. Strawman.

Wendy P.


"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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billvon

>Buzzkill Hayes:
>"Look lady, it's not a fucking baby ok?"

Close. The actual terminology techs and OB-GYN's use early in the pregnancy around here is "your pregnancy" up to about week 22. That terminology is used so that if they determine that the fetus will not be viable, they can say "your pregnancy isn't going to be successful" and not put the mother through any more trauma than she's already going to go through.

(Rather than, to use your terminology, "your baby is fucking dead, OK?")



Yep
Keep using these kind of terms to let yourself off the hook[:/]
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc



While that's more than the estimate of already-born children killed by accidental gunshot per year, it's way less than the number hospitalized for gunshot wounds. Strawman.

Wendy P.



After all these years you still haven't learned what a "strawman" argument is.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

***

While that's more than the estimate of already-born children killed by accidental gunshot per year, it's way less than the number hospitalized for gunshot wounds. Strawman.

Wendy P.



After all these years you still haven't learned what a "strawman" argument is.

3 days and 187 posts on, and I'm still waiting to see the connection to unethical Asians.

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Quit using normal people words for medical jargon that has been redefined by the law to suit it's own needs!"



sure because legal definitions are not important at all.....I mean let's just redefine the Constitution into 'normal people words' and see how that goes, allowing you to define it whatever way you want.

Quote

But you'd kinda sound like a dick if you said that to a new mom having an ultrasound:



The new mom is allowed to be excited about her upcoming birth and think of it as a positive thing and say whatever she wants about it. But you are not because it is HER choice, not yours.

The expecting mom is also allowed to abort that fetus and that is also HER CHOICE, not yours.

You still do not get to redefine what a fetus is.

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however, these videos and the implications make me physically ill.



what makes you ill has no bearing on its validity, its legality or its morality. Or for that matter, any other aspect of it.

Just because you have a weak stomach does not mean that anyone is doing anything wrong, nor should your illness dictate public policy in any way.

Some people cannot stand the sight of a nice plate of liver and onions.

So just like those people, perhaps your tactic should just be to 'not look' and leave it at that.

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littlestranger

Quote

Human tissue is used in research all the time. You and your kind are merely trying to spin an ordinary non issue to try and make it support your narrow moral beliefs.



...your kind? what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

to date I have been ambivalent on this issue, choosing to not take a side because abortion, as a choice, is deeply personal and i don't have to live with that choice.

however, these videos and the implications make me physically ill.

your callous response to the OP leads me to believe that the videos have not affected you at all.

I can only hope that this is not the case.




In this case "your kind" was meant to refer to those who want to force their view upon others and to make others comply with what is essentially their religious view. A little like Taliban.

I have not looked at the linked videos of medical procedures. The same as I eat cows, but I don't want to watch them die. I do avoid watching unpleasant things if I can. I also get a little queasy when I have blood taken. That fact that something is unpleasant to watch does not make it wrong.

Once more, if it's not your womb, it's not your business. You seem to understand that, but the OP clearly does not. I will admit that my words are a little harsh and judgmental. Sometimes my emotions lead me to use words that convey feelings instead of logic.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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rushmc

Keep using these kind of terms to let yourself off the hook[:/]



You're begging the question. There is no the hook. You can't just walk around carrying a hook and refer to it as the hook. That'd be fucking weird. Be honest; it's your hook (note: only slightly less fucking weird to carry around.)

SkyDekker

***Wrong, Obama lied to some of his own Democrates to get them to vote for Obamacare. If anyone thinks PP is not using federal funds they get to do the same I got a bridge to sell them



Rush, when you read that sentence does it make sense to you?

There's an awkward noun phrase and a comma missing before, "I got a bridge...", but other than that it makes sense. I'm sometimes guilty of hard to parse sentences myself.

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billvon

>Buzzkill Hayes:
>"Look lady, it's not a fucking baby ok?"

Close. The actual terminology techs and OB-GYN's use early in the pregnancy around here is "your pregnancy" up to about week 22. That terminology is used so that if they determine that the fetus will not be viable, they can say "your pregnancy isn't going to be successful" and not put the mother through any more trauma than she's already going to go through.

(Rather than, to use your terminology, "your baby is fucking dead, OK?")



So sugar coating is ok then, instead of saying, sorry ma'am, you are going to lose your baby. KNOWING that the mother of the child knows it's a fucking baby.

Obama did the same fucking thing when talking about the fort hood incident.

Why does the left love to delude its self so much and so often?

Are they really that scared of the hard truth?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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>So sugar coating is ok then

Well, compassion is OK. So is being careful about what you say to spare the patient needless pain. Many OB-GYN's think such things through carefully, so as to best care for their patients.

>Obama did the same fucking thing . . . .

Gratuitous Obama slam noted and ignored.

>Why does the left love to delude its self . . .

Gratuitous political slam noted and ignored.

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Who cares what happens to ANY human tissue after the person dies? God, move on.

Cemeteries are a waste of space, cremation is a waste of energy. If we can benefit from the tissue in some way, be it scientific research or feeding sharks, why not do it?

Sentimentalism is lame.

As for abortion itself? Hell, the more the merrier.
cavete terrae.

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