Planned Parenthood and the term "slippery slope" .

[SkyDekker 1,393]

cvfd1399

******...Why is so difficult to call abortion what it is , infanticide. Whether it is legal or not is another issue. To say that a embryo is part of a woman's body like some sort of neoplastic growth or that it is not a biologically self contained human life form is blind and purposefully naive.

...

It's not called "infanticide" because it isn't. Pure and simple.

A fetus is not an infant. Nor is an embryo.

Those three stages of human development each have separate definitions.

Neither the embryo nor the fetus is "self contained", they are fully dependent on the host (mother) for survival.

Who is being purposefully naive?

If a full term baby is born placed in a crib and not fed it will die. It is fully dependent on someone for half a dozen years......

They are fully dependent yes, but not on the host. Anybody can step in at that point. Yes, that does make a difference, maybe not to you, but to definitions.

[wmw999 2,371]

We magnify the importance of people with relation to other animals. Many consider a recently implanted embryo (generally someone else's, not their own) to have all the attributes of humanity. But as long as we don't hold full funeral services for the significant percentages of embryos that don't implant (many particularly heavy periods), then maybe it's partly politicization.

It's interesting how we magnify the value of those individual, close, lives, but not the value of the lives of industrial workers and civilian casualties of war, disease or famine in other countries.

When you consider the opinion that militant vegans or PETA members have of the more carnivorous among us, or that self-employed prostitutes or porn stars have from the GP, etc, well, why does it matter outside of legislation? So my focus is on making sure that birth control is as cheap, reliable, and available as possible, and that abortions then remain legal.

I fully understand that some people think I'm depraved with those opinions, or others (I vote on the fiscally-responsible side of liberal), but that's OK with me. Most of them don't care about my opinion of them, either.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tkhayes 324]

Quote

Societies and governments can decree and legalize whatever they want.

yes they can...and in the case of abortion, America HAS legalized it. regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of it.

We also legalize guns which are at the heart of 30,000 deaths each year. and we legalize surgery, which is also at the heart of thousands of deaths each year. And cigarettes, and cars, and flying, and skydiving and playing with gasoline and matches......

and please, brush up on your medical knowledge and the knowledge of the entire pregnancy cycle - it might do you some good and save you from posting incorrect information in the future.

Main Entry: in·fan·ti·cide
Pronunciation: in-'fant-&-"sId
Function: noun
1 : the killing of an infant
2 : one who kills an infant
- in·fan·ti·ci·dal /-"fant-&-'sId-&l/ adjective

....not....

[maadmax 0]

Yes I am familiar with all of the justifications used to assuage the moral recriminations one might feel after condoning such a procedure. But I find it interesting how a mother who wraps her unwanted baby in a trash bag and dumps it in a garbage can is charged with murder, while the mother who has a 3rd trimester or late term abortion is just getting rid of some unwanted tissue.

[ryoder 1,590]

The CO Springs shooter wants to fire his lawyer and represent himself.

http://gazette.com/accused-planned-parenthood-shooter-wants-to-fire-attorney/article/1566359

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wmw999 2,371]

Third trimester abortions are, as far as I know, only legal for health and safety reasons, not just for birth control. So your parallel is invalid.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[gowlerk 2,155]

maadmax

Yes I am familiar with all of the justifications used to assuage the moral recriminations one might feel after condoning such a procedure. But I find it interesting how a mother who wraps her unwanted baby in a trash bag and dumps it in a garbage can is charged with murder, while the mother who has a 3rd trimester or late term abortion is just getting rid of some unwanted tissue.

It's alright for you to wonder that. It's not alright for you or anyone else to spew vile hatred at that woman or her doctor. The difference is the law, like it or not. There are ways to change laws that are proper. Hatred and violence are not among them. Too many of the people who feel like you use bullying and even terrorist tactics.

So keep your efforts confined to legal lobbying and trying to pass restrictive laws. I will still disagree with you, and fight against you in the political arena but I will respect you.

Most of the people who go on about late term abortions are just throwing them up as a red herring. They will not be happy just to stop those, they wish to stop all abortions. So climb down from your high horse and tell the truth about just what you would allow if you were in charge.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,922]

maadmax

Yes I am familiar with all of the justifications used to assuage the moral recriminations one might feel after condoning such a procedure. But I find it interesting how a mother who wraps her unwanted baby in a trash bag and dumps it in a garbage can is charged with murder, while the mother who has a 3rd trimester or late term abortion is just getting rid of some unwanted tissue.

The ONLY relevant point is that it's her business and absolutely none of your business.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,877]

>But I find it interesting how a mother who wraps her unwanted baby in a trash
>bag and dumps it in a garbage can is charged with murder, while the mother
>who has a 3rd trimester or late term abortion is just getting rid of some
>unwanted tissue.

I don't. One is a human being; the other is not. Legal definitions matter within the law.

[maadmax 0]

wmw999

Third trimester abortions are, as far as I know, only legal for health and safety reasons, not just for birth control. So your parallel is invalid.

Wendy P.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/18/us/politics/abortion-restrictions.html?_r=0

Some states do others don't.

...

[maadmax 0]

Quote

I don't. One is a human being; the other is not. Legal definitions matter within the law.

Sure but certainly you can examine history and identify times where the laws of the land were made by confused individuals with evil intent.

...

[maadmax 0]

Quote

The ONLY relevant point is that it's her business and absolutely none of your business.

Absolutely, no argument. But like you l just like to call "bull shit" when blind individuals do one thing and call it something else.

...

[tkhayes 324]

maadmax

Yes I am familiar with all of the justifications used to assuage the moral recriminations one might feel after condoning such a procedure. But I find it interesting how a mother who wraps her unwanted baby in a trash bag and dumps it in a garbage can is charged with murder, while the mother who has a 3rd trimester or late term abortion is just getting rid of some unwanted tissue.

that is the line in the sand and I am fine with that. I have zero issues with that as it stands. no issue whatsoever. and neither does a majority of the US population. And again, abortion procedures are upheld by the Supreme Court, and I am fine with that too, and as well the other comments on third trimester abortions, (apparently in the eyes of the pro-life movement an everyday occurrence with no regard for the law...not)

I am fine with all of that yes. In the same way that i am fine with 30,000-40,000 children dying of starvation in the world every single day. It is what it is and probably not going to change, morally repugnant and I am fine with it.

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

***Yes I am familiar with all of the justifications used to assuage the moral recriminations one might feel after condoning such a procedure. But I find it interesting how a mother who wraps her unwanted baby in a trash bag and dumps it in a garbage can is charged with murder, while the mother who has a 3rd trimester or late term abortion is just getting rid of some unwanted tissue.

It's alright for you to wonder that. It's not alright for you or anyone else to spew vile hatred at that woman or her doctor. The difference is the law, like it or not. There are ways to change laws that are proper. Hatred and violence are not among them. Too many of the people who feel like you use bullying and even terrorist tactics.

So keep your efforts confined to legal lobbying and trying to pass restrictive laws. I will still disagree with you, and fight against you in the political arena but I will respect you.

Most of the people who go on about late term abortions are just throwing them up as a red herring. They will not be happy just to stop those, they wish to stop all abortions. So climb down from your high horse and tell the truth about just what you would allow if you were in charge.

That first part is simply untrue.
The first amendment guarantees people the right to spew vile words and hatred if they wish.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[gowlerk 2,155]

Quote

The first amendment guarantees people the right to spew vile words and hatred if they wish.

This will just go around in a circle, but.....The constitution also provides other guaranteed rights.......one of them is a right to choose. At least that's the considered opinion of the Supreme Court.

I live in a city where James Kopp paid a visit one night. He hid sniper like in a suburban back yard and took a shot at one of our fine physicians one night in the late '90s. I draw a straight line between hateful evil rhetoric and events like that and like the recent killings in Colorado. These are murders in the true meaning of the word.

As far as I know, no anti-choice protesters have ever been murdered for their actions.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Stumpy 284]

maadmax

Quote

The ONLY relevant point is that it's her business and absolutely none of your business.

Absolutely, no argument. But like you l just like to call "bull shit" when blind individuals do one thing and call it something else.

...

Ahhh - so everyone who doesn't share your (wrong in all aspects of science and law) viewpoint is "blind?" And then you wonder why Christianity becomes increasingly irrelevant.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

Quote

The first amendment guarantees people the right to spew vile words and hatred if they wish.

This will just go around in a circle, but.....The constitution also provides other guaranteed rights.......one of them is a right to choose. At least that's the considered opinion of the Supreme Court.

I live in a city where James Kopp paid a visit one night. He hid sniper like in a suburban back yard and took a shot at one of our fine physicians one night in the late '90s. I draw a straight line between hateful evil rhetoric and events like that and like the recent killings in Colorado. These are murders in the true meaning of the word.

As far as I know, no anti-choice protesters have ever been murdered for their actions.

I suppose you are going to lump Syed Ramook and draw a strait line to all Muslims too.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[gowlerk 2,155]

Quote

I suppose you are going to lump Syed Ramook and draw a strait line to all Muslims too.

I don't know who that is, and Google was no help. You may misspelled him name? But in any case, yes, I do draw a straight line from Islamic leaders who spew hatred and preach violence to those Muslims who practice violence. It's the same principle. You've got it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,877]

>I suppose you are going to lump Syed Ramook and draw a strait line to all
>Muslims too.

Never heard of him. But I would certainly draw a line between the hateful rhetoric of Khalid Muhammad and the resulting increase in Islamic terrorism.

[normiss 750]

maadmax

Quote

I don't. One is a human being; the other is not. Legal definitions matter within the law.

Sure but certainly you can examine history and identify times where the laws of the land were made by confused individuals with evil religious intent.

...

FIFY

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

Quote

I suppose you are going to lump Syed Ramook and draw a strait line to all Muslims too.

I don't know who that is, and Google was no help. You may misspelled him name? But in any case, yes, I do draw a straight line from Islamic leaders who spew hatred and preach violence to those Muslims who practice violence. It's the same principle. You've got it.

Yes, evidently auto correct is versatile.

It should be Syed Farook

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[maadmax 0]

Quote

Sure but certainly you can examine history and identify times where the laws of the land were made by confused individuals with evil religious intent.



FIFY

Interesting, so in the past when one group of people were exterminating large numbers of others they deemed a nuisance it was a " religious " act. This fetal genocide we are engaged in has to be one of the largest "politically correct" mass exterminations of all time.

...

[normiss 750]

How did you change "laws of the land" to extermination?

[cvfd1399 0]

Are you saying that because something is a law it has been completely thought out and right in all areas? I can think of dozens and dozens of laws that were on the books and followed for decades that when looking back was pure evil and wrong, but common practice in its day.

[normiss 750]

Try to follow the conversation please.