Planned Parenthood and the term "slippery slope" .

[gowlerk 2,156]

Quote

I can see, just in the same way as if someone is attacking you and you are in fear of your life, or are in mortal danger, that there are cases of justified murder.

I will interpret that as meaning that abortion can be justified to save a woman's life, but not in cases of rape. Which is still a consistent position. I will note that although homicide can sometimes be justifiable murder is a legal term and is always a crime.

As in when the state executes a criminal it is a homicide, but it is not a murder.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 757]

What does your female reproductive organ tell you the answer is?

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

What does your female reproductive organ tell you the answer is?

The same as yours does you.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 757]

So when women can legally tell you what you can and can't do with with your coin purse, you can then return the favor.
In the meantime, their body, their decision, fully legal.

No matter what anyone thinks.

The public shaming efforts I regularly see at a clinic here in Orlando is ridiculous. Those people should be ashamed of their behavior.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

So when women can legally tell you what you can and can't do with with your coin purse, you can then return the favor.
In the meantime, their body, their decision, fully legal.

No matter what anyone thinks.

The public shaming efforts I regularly see at a clinic here in Orlando is ridiculous. Those people should be ashamed of their behavior.

Over react much?

I'm not telling anyone what they can and can't do. I simply state that I think it is murder. Sometimes justified, sometimes not. Regardless, it is still murder.

I have a certain belief, but I have to be wrong because it's not your belief. That's pretty arrogant.

I am not in Orlando. I don't protest PP. What makes you an authority on what people should be ashamed of?

I think people that are careless and then destroy a life should be much more ashamed of themselves.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[gowlerk 2,156]

Quote

Over react much?Crazy

I can agree that he is overreacting. Probably because he is equating your thinking with the actions of the protesters. There is some validity in that.

My point is that when you call women who have had abortions murderers in a public way you are unknowingly hurting all the woman that can hear you who have had abortions. And it is a near certainty that you know some.

That is also public shaming. You may think that it's okay because they deserve it. But I'm willing to bet that if you knew for sure that a woman you know did have an abortion you would avoid calling her a murderer. Out of respect for the difficult decision she felt she needed to make.

You are entitled to your belief. It's valid. Other people have different beliefs that are just as valid, and have the support of the law of the land. Murderer is a harsh word, murder is a harsh act, and this is not a mere intellectual exercise. You have friends who are hurt when they are called such things.

Abortion is a tough issue, both sides need to show more respect. But the only legally valid use of the word murder anywhere near this debate have been acts perpetrated by people who protest against innocent men and women helping each other. Because of those killings protesters touch a raw nerve with pro choice thinkers.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 757]

Not overreacting, just tired of the people with the "my opinion is the only one and it's the right one" attitude.
Your delivery was much nicer than mine.

We all have opinions, they aren't the same as us all having and making choices for our own lives.
Don't like abortion? Don't have one. Don't worry about those that do, it's their life and their choice.
IMO, calling a woman who has an abortion a "murderer" could also be applied to a man that masturbates. I don't see any difference.
How many have you killed?

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

IMO, calling a woman who has an abortion a "murderer" could also be applied to a man that masturbates. I don't see any difference.

Perhaps you should educate yourself then.

It's usually covered in some videos about the 4th or 5th grade.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,376]

This is a case where honestly-held beliefs are incompatible. When directly asked, you stated your opinion. It wasn't a surprise, because you've stated it in the past, without its being quite so direct (i.e. "would you call x a murderer?).

But as far as I know you continue to treat people whom you feel are murderers with respect as people, and you don't reduce them to that one facet.

Frankly, personally I don't have a problem with that. It's kind of like keeping your religion to yourself, and not proselytizing all over the place and declaring it to be the only way. Honestly held beliefs are exactly that, and they differ from person to person.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

normiss

...IMO, calling a woman who has an abortion a "murderer" could also be applied to a man that masturbates. I don't see any difference...

And that's the big question. By definition, 'homicide' is the taking of a human life.

So when does "human" life begin?

Conception? That's what most of the anti-abortion crowd claim. In that case, leftover embryos from in virto attempts are also 'human' and destroying them or using them for research should also be considered "murder."

But sperm are alive. So your definition is also valid.

I use the idea of "viable outside the mother's body" as the definition. So a fetus or an embryo are not human yet.

I guess I have a hard time accepting the idea of forcing a woman to go through a difficult and dangerous medical situation. Carrying a baby to term and giving birth is not a trivial process.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rushmc 23]

Quote

What makes you an authority on what people should be ashamed of?

Cause he is a liberal

They are afraid that those who have religion will do to them exactly what they already do to everyone else

(I am not say you are religious as it is just an example)

Harsh?
Yes, but..

I am so tired of their very obvious two faced bull shit

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

normiss

Not overreacting, just tired of the people with the "my opinion is the only one and it's the right one" attitude.

Irony meter fucking explodes!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 757]

As usual, you are completely wrong.

[rushmc 23]

normiss

As usual, you are completely wrong.

It explodes again

Lmfao

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

As usual, you are completely wrong.

Says the person that said this.

Those facial injuries were false.
I thought that was made clear in that discussion.

Those who throw stones.....

[normiss 757]

cvfd1399

Quote

As usual, you are completely wrong.

Says the person that said this.

Those facial injuries were false.
I thought that was made clear in that discussion.

Those who throw stones.....

Genius.

[turtlespeed 212]

cvfd1399

Quote

As usual, you are completely wrong.

Says the person that said this.

***Those facial injuries were false.
I thought that was made clear in that discussion.

Those who throw stones.....

Gotta hit the right markup button.

Do t get the reference, but meh.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

This is a case where honestly-held beliefs are incompatible. When directly asked, you stated your opinion. It wasn't a surprise, because you've stated it in the past, without its being quite so direct (i.e. "would you call x a murderer?).

But as far as I know you continue to treat people whom you feel are murderers with respect as people, and you don't reduce them to that one facet.

Frankly, personally I don't have a problem with that. It's kind of like keeping your religion to yourself, and not proselytizing all over the place and declaring it to be the only way. Honestly held beliefs are exactly that, and they differ from person to person.

Wendy P.

This is true.

Only when prompted do I make my feelings and beliefs clear.
I'm not going to hate you if you have an abortion.
That doesn't change have I feel about it.

My belief is, the act in and of its self, I imagine, is difficult enough.

Perhaps it isn't. Well, perhaps for some it isn't.

I have seen women struggle with the decision. I have seen then after they have done the deed. It isn't a pleasant experience for the ones that I have known to go through the experience. They all knew that they were killing. They even called it that. Every one of them all said at one point or another, in one way or another, "I can't believe I killed my child."

I am sad with them, and empathize. They have to live with their decision the rest of their lives. Only one of the women I knew commuted suicide because they couldn't live with their decision. It was really devastating. The other four that I know, struggle with the decision constantly.

I guess I look at it like how I would feel if I went out driving drunk and killed someone while I was drinking and driving.

Some people can get over it and not think about it.

I'm not wired that way.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DanG 1]

Quote

They have to live with their decision the rest of their lives. Only one of the women I knew commuted suicide because they couldn't live with their decision. It was really devastating. The other four that I know, struggle with the decision constantly.

These women you know, do tyhey have to live with their friends and families calling them murderers all the time? That might make living with the decision a little harder.

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 212]

DanG

Quote

They have to live with their decision the rest of their lives. Only one of the women I knew commuted suicide because they couldn't live with their decision. It was really devastating. The other four that I know, struggle with the decision constantly.

These women you know, do tyhey have to live with their friends and families calling them murderers all the time? That might make living with the decision a little harder.

Not that I am aware of.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

Quote

They have to live with their decision the rest of their lives. Only one of the women I knew commuted suicide because they couldn't live with their decision. It was really devastating. The other four that I know, struggle with the decision constantly.

These women you know, do tyhey have to live with their friends and families calling them murderers all the time? That might make living with the decision a little harder.

Meh, a small price compared to having some rug rat hanging from your tit for the next 18 years.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[DanG 1]

Well, the women you know who have struggled to find peace after an abortion are very different from the ones I've known. I don't know anyone who killed themselves, or struggles daily with a choice made years ago. I assumed it had to do with the environment. Maybe it's just chance, but it seems more likely that women in very conservative, anti-abortion environments are going to have a harder time dealing with the choice than those in loving, supporting environments.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Well, the women you know who have struggled to find peace after an abortion are very different from the ones I've known. I don't know anyone who killed themselves, or struggles daily with a choice made years ago. I assumed it had to do with the environment. Maybe it's just chance, but it seems more likely that women in very conservative, anti-abortion environments are going to have a harder time dealing with the choice than those in loving, supporting environments.

So
A conservative household is less loving?
Really?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 757]

I know one that had an abortion to deal with family rape by her father.
The abortion is still the least of her demons.
I cannot imagine her not having that choice though, neither could she.

[DanG 1]

Quote

So
A conservative household is less loving?
Really?

In general, no.
Of someone they consider a murderer? Probably.

- Dan G