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Gunman opens fire at cinema in Lafayette

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normiss

Defending the issuing of weapons without a completed background check, is in fact, defending the illegal purchase of weapons.:S



I also made reference to this case in post #197 of this thread, but part of the discussion in the decision is also important here http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Silvester-v.-Harris_Findings-of-Fact-and-Conclusions-of-Law.pdf See pg 20 et seq.

In places like California with an attorney general who loathes firearm ownership, if you don't place a time limit on how long a background check may take, it will simply take forever as a matter of course. As much fun as it sounds to have to sue the state of California / petition for a writ of mandamus every single time I want to purchase a firearm, I think I'll pass on your 100% completion goal.

I agree with background checks, but everyone here knows exactly what happens when you give executives blank checks.

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billvon

>There is no reason there should be a background check to begin with

Do you think it's a good idea to sell guns to convicted murderers?



to me the question here would be = what is a convicted murderer doing out in society anyway - as far as I'm concerned a convicted murderer should be in jail. Or have been executed.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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skypuppy

***>There is no reason there should be a background check to begin with

Do you think it's a good idea to sell guns to convicted murderers?



to me the question here would be = what is a convicted murderer doing out in society anyway - as far as I'm concerned a convicted murderer should be in jail. Or have been executed.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=3




*In 2006 an estimated 69% of all persons convicted of a felony in state
courts were sentenced to a period of confinement–41% to state prison
and 28% to local jails.

*State prison sentences averaged 4 years and 11 months in 2006.

*Men (83%) accounted for a larger percentage of persons convicted of a felony,
compared to their percentage (49%) of the adult population (not shown in table).

*Most (94%) felony offenders sentenced in 2006 pleaded guilty.

Section 1. Felony Sentences in State Court

*State courts sentenced an estimated 1,132,290
persons for a felony in 2006, including 206,140
(or 18% of all felony convictions) for a violent
felony (table 1.1). A drug crime was the most
serious conviction offense for about a third of
felons sentenced in state courts that year.

*In 2006 an estimated 69% of all persons convicted
of a felony in state courts were sentenced
to a period of confinement—41% to state
prison and 28% to local jails (table 1.2). Jail
sentences are usually a year or less in a county
or city facility, while prison sentences are usually
more than a year and are served in a state
facility.

*Among persons sentenced for a felony in state
courts nationwide in 2006, an estimated 27%
received a probation sentence with no jail or
prison time. Four percent of felons were not
sentenced to any incarceration or probation,
but received a sentence that included fines, restitution,
treatment, community service, or some other penalty
(for example, house arrest or periodic drug testing).

*State prison sentences averaged 4 years and
11 months in 2006 (table 1.3). Persons convicted
of a violent felony received the longest
prison sentences in 2006, compared to property,
drug, weapon, and other felonies.

*Felony sentences to jail averaged 6 months
(table 1.3). Among felons who were sentenced
in state courts to probation and no incarceration,
the average probation sentence was
3 years and 2 months.

*Life sentences accounted for less than 1%
(0.3%) of the 1.1 million felony sentences in
state courts during 2006 (table 1.4). However,
among the estimated 8,670 persons sentenced
for murder or nonnegligent manslaughter that
year, 23% received life in prison.

*Among the estimated 460,000 persons sentenced
to prison via state courts, 0.8% received
life sentences (table 1.4).

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rushmc

***

Quote

gun banner

Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true. I've never heard Kallend talking about banning guns. He's opinionated and pointed in his disagreements, but that doesnt change what he actually says

Wendy P.


He never says anything directly. You know that. But one time he stated his so called solutions

Ya. He is a gun banner

I did not say it. He did

You repeat that lie over and over but every time challenged to provide a link to the claimed statement, you go very quiet.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Quote

to me the question here would be = what is a convicted murderer doing out in society anyway - as far as I'm concerned a convicted murderer should be in jail. Or have been executed.

Is this how Canada deals with people convicted of murder? I don't think so.

In the US you can easily be convicted of murder without actually killing anyone. All you have to do is be a party to a crime in which someone ends up getting killed. Example from where I live: college kid asks his friend for a drive so he can pick up some weed, a small amount for personal use (not dealing). At the buy, the person selling the weed instead pulls a gun and robs the college kid, then shoots him. Friend brings college kid to the hospital but college kid is already dead. Friend is charged with felony murder because he drove the college kid to the drug buy, and is sentenced to life (with the possibility of parole after 25 years). Do you think the friend should be executed for what he did? Locked up for life and never let out?

Back to the background check issue, there are a lot of crimes less than murder that still suggest a person should not be allowed to own guns for at least a significant amount of time after their release. Would you say that every person convicted of brandishing a weapon during a robbery should be executed, or locked up for life? If not, then they will be released one day and we still have the issue of whether or not they should be allowed to walk into a gun shop and buy whatever they want. rushmc is OK with that, what do you think?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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Amazon

******>There is no reason there should be a background check to begin with

Do you think it's a good idea to sell guns to convicted murderers?



to me the question here would be = what is a convicted murderer doing out in society anyway - as far as I'm concerned a convicted murderer should be in jail. Or have been executed.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=3




*In 2006 an estimated 69% of all persons convicted of a felony in state
courts were sentenced to a period of confinement–41% to state prison
and 28% to local jails.

*State prison sentences averaged 4 years and 11 months in 2006.

*Men (83%) accounted for a larger percentage of persons convicted of a felony,
compared to their percentage (49%) of the adult population (not shown in table).

*Most (94%) felony offenders sentenced in 2006 pleaded guilty.

Section 1. Felony Sentences in State Court

*State courts sentenced an estimated 1,132,290
persons for a felony in 2006, including 206,140
(or 18% of all felony convictions) for a violent
felony (table 1.1). A drug crime was the most
serious conviction offense for about a third of
felons sentenced in state courts that year.

*In 2006 an estimated 69% of all persons convicted
of a felony in state courts were sentenced
to a period of confinement—41% to state
prison and 28% to local jails (table 1.2). Jail
sentences are usually a year or less in a county
or city facility, while prison sentences are usually
more than a year and are served in a state
facility.

*Among persons sentenced for a felony in state
courts nationwide in 2006, an estimated 27%
received a probation sentence with no jail or
prison time. Four percent of felons were not
sentenced to any incarceration or probation,
but received a sentence that included fines, restitution,
treatment, community service, or some other penalty
(for example, house arrest or periodic drug testing).

*State prison sentences averaged 4 years and
11 months in 2006 (table 1.3). Persons convicted
of a violent felony received the longest
prison sentences in 2006, compared to property,
drug, weapon, and other felonies.

*Felony sentences to jail averaged 6 months
(table 1.3). Among felons who were sentenced
in state courts to probation and no incarceration,
the average probation sentence was
3 years and 2 months.

*Life sentences accounted for less than 1%
(0.3%) of the 1.1 million felony sentences in
state courts during 2006 (table 1.4). However,
among the estimated 8,670 persons sentenced
for murder or nonnegligent manslaughter that
year, 23% received life in prison.

*Among the estimated 460,000 persons sentenced
to prison via state courts, 0.8% received
life sentences (table 1.4).

Bill specifically said convicted murderers. If convicted murderers being out on the street is the reason for your gun laws, the convicted murderers should maybe be in jail...
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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kallend

******

Quote

gun banner

Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true. I've never heard Kallend talking about banning guns. He's opinionated and pointed in his disagreements, but that doesnt change what he actually says

Wendy P.


He never says anything directly. You know that. But one time he stated his so called solutions

Ya. He is a gun banner

I did not say it. He did

You repeat that lie over and over but every time challenged to provide a link to the claimed statement, you go very quiet.

It was from an exchange and i have looked

It is there and i stand by my statement

And you what i am talking about too. You just will not repeat what you said

And we know why
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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GeorgiaDon

Quote

to me the question here would be = what is a convicted murderer doing out in society anyway - as far as I'm concerned a convicted murderer should be in jail. Or have been executed.

Is this how Canada deals with people convicted of murder? I don't think so.

In the US you can easily be convicted of murder without actually killing anyone. All you have to do is be a party to a crime in which someone ends up getting killed. Example from where I live: college kid asks his friend for a drive so he can pick up some weed, a small amount for personal use (not dealing). At the buy, the person selling the weed instead pulls a gun and robs the college kid, then shoots him. Friend brings college kid to the hospital but college kid is already dead. Friend is charged with felony murder because he drove the college kid to the drug buy, and is sentenced to life (with the possibility of parole after 25 years). Do you think the friend should be executed for what he did? Locked up for life and never let out?

Back to the background check issue, there are a lot of crimes less than murder that still suggest a person should not be allowed to own guns for at least a significant amount of time after their release. Would you say that every person convicted of brandishing a weapon during a robbery should be executed, or locked up for life? If not, then they will be released one day and we still have the issue of whether or not they should be allowed to walk into a gun shop and buy whatever they want. rushmc is OK with that, what do you think?

Don



Again, Bill is the one who specifically brought up convicted murderers.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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Quote

It was from an exchange and i have looked

It is there and i stand by my statement

And yet, you are totally unable to provide a link to the alleged offending post. I wonder why?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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Quote

Again, Bill is the one who specifically brought up convicted murderers.

Not a very convincing dodge to the question.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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rushmc

*********

Quote

gun banner

Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true. I've never heard Kallend talking about banning guns. He's opinionated and pointed in his disagreements, but that doesnt change what he actually says

Wendy P.


He never says anything directly. You know that. But one time he stated his so called solutions

Ya. He is a gun banner

I did not say it. He did

You repeat that lie over and over but every time challenged to provide a link to the claimed statement, you go very quiet.

It was from an exchange and i have looked

It is there and i stand by my statement

And you what i am talking about too. You just will not repeat what you said

And we know why

How about a link, since you *claim* to have one.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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We know why you will not give specifics ever again.

Cause you will not admit your position, ever again.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

We know why you will not give specifics ever again.

Cause you will not admit your position, ever again.



No link looks to the rest of us like an admission that you are just making stuff up.

You've done this repeatedly.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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GeorgiaDon

Quote

Again, Bill is the one who specifically brought up convicted murderers.

Not a very convincing dodge to the question.

Don



In the case of your example, I would have no problem, all things being equal, with giving the guy a gun permit after he got out, if he was not the one who committed the murder. If however, he was a violent felon who drove a getaway car in an armed robbery, that's a different story.

If it was a violent felon driving a getaway car in an armed robbery where someone was killed, then no, he shouldn't get out. If it was similar to your more passive example, he shouldn't have been convicted.

In that case, I would suggest the problem is not gun control, it is your justice system.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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Andy9o8

Quote

But in the end that is what he proposes (backdoor)



:o:o

What a dirty ole basterd!

:|

Not that there's anything wrong with it.



Not that any of that sort of thing doesn't happen with a fairly high frequency behind closeted congressional GOP doors.

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Amazon

***

Quote

But in the end that is what he proposes (backdoor)



:o:o

What a dirty ole basterd!

:|

Not that there's anything wrong with it.



Not that any of that sort of thing doesn't happen with a fairly high frequency behind closeted congressional GOP doors.

I used to live in Illinois's 18th congressional district....can confirm...

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JohnnyMarko

******

Quote

But in the end that is what he proposes (backdoor)



:o:o

What a dirty ole basterd!

:|

Not that there's anything wrong with it.



Not that any of that sort of thing doesn't happen with a fairly high frequency behind closeted congressional GOP doors.

I used to live in Illinois's 18th congressional district....can confirm...

As also confirmed by my VERY out first cousin in Wisconsin. He said something more than once about straight in the halls of the staffers in Madison..... gay in the sheets.

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rushmc

***

Quote

gun banner

Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true. I've never heard Kallend talking about banning guns. He's opinionated and pointed in his disagreements, but that doesnt change what he actually says

Wendy P.



BTW Wendy
If you still do not believe me, ask kallend.

Ask him what specific actions he thinks should be put into place
My bet? He will not answer you
(uless he does it in a private message)

He did once here years ago. And he got jumped when it became very clear that the actions he proposed would be a ban by defautl

So did he ever directly call for a ban? No

But in the end that is what he proposes (backdoor)

So you admit that I have not, in fact, ever called for a ban and that it's all in your imagination.

I have stated very clearly that felons and the mentally ill shouldn't have guns. Why would you interpret that to mean that you are banned from having a gun?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

******

Quote

gun banner

Saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true. I've never heard Kallend talking about banning guns. He's opinionated and pointed in his disagreements, but that doesnt change what he actually says

Wendy P.



BTW Wendy
If you still do not believe me, ask kallend.

Ask him what specific actions he thinks should be put into place
My bet? He will not answer you
(uless he does it in a private message)

He did once here years ago. And he got jumped when it became very clear that the actions he proposed would be a ban by defautl

So did he ever directly call for a ban? No

But in the end that is what he proposes (backdoor)

So you admit that I have not, in fact, ever called for a ban and that it's all in your imagination.

I have stated very clearly that felons and the mentally ill shouldn't have guns. Why would you interpret that to mean that you are banned from having a gun?

Poor spelling and grammar????:ph34r::ph34r:

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