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wan2doit

Please Help Stop This - It just Ain't Right

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All I want to do is be a whuffo tunnel rat and never wanted to bring a weird non-tunnel or non-skydive issue here - but here I go.

Well down here in the Everglades they now want to build a bike path 76 miles through the Everglades from Miami to Naples they say along side a highway but that ain't necessarily so.

The plan can be seen here but is secured so you can't copy,paste, highlight etc. http://www.miamidade.gov/rogg/2015-may-report.asp

Nobody down here has anything against cyclists or other potential users of it but the proponents have been BS'ing everyone all the way on this plus preventing access to documents then when we force them to make them available they are secured to prevent efficient communicating about them.

The name of this bad idea promised to cost $145,000,000 not including mitigation for massive destruction of habitat is River of Grass Greenway (ROGG).

This thing will be cutting thru Deep Cypress swamps off the road in 53 different locations (maily below bridges) for 600 feet minimum everywhere totaling 5 miles as per the plan's preferred alternatives shown in routing alternatives with red bordered squares. Some preferred design alternatives shown below.

Many diverse groups have joined to fight prevent ROGG from moving ahead past this stage - Indigenous peoples nationwide, hunters, fishermen, hikers, botanical groups, Sierra Club who has developed a sign on letter for organizations to sign in agreement with available at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxwha-5-SWekY2w2QWthTVhrcFU/view

This is a national issue anyone can comment on at [email protected] if they care to since hundreds of millions of Federal dollars are gonna be used. Hell the study at the link above is costing $1,000,000 dollars alone.

All I ask is that one would help by commenting or having your organization sign on to the letter if you agree after studying the information provided.

I can be pm'd if questions arise.

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wan2doit

All I want to do is be a whuffo tunnel rat and never wanted to bring a weird non-tunnel or non-skydive issue here - but here I go.

Well down here in the Everglades they now want to build a bike path 76 miles through the Everglades from Miami to Naples they say along side a highway but that ain't necessarily so.

The plan can be seen here but is secured so you can't copy,paste, highlight etc. http://www.miamidade.gov/rogg/2015-may-report.asp

Nobody down here has anything against cyclists or other potential users of it but the proponents have been BS'ing everyone all the way on this plus preventing access to documents then when we force them to make them available they are secured to prevent efficient communicating about them.

The name of this bad idea promised to cost $145,000,000 not including mitigation for massive destruction of habitat is River of Grass Greenway (ROGG).

This thing will be cutting thru Deep Cypress swamps off the road in 53 different locations (maily below bridges) for 600 feet minimum everywhere totaling 5 miles as per the plan's preferred alternatives shown in routing alternatives with red bordered squares. Some preferred design alternatives shown below.

Many diverse groups have joined to fight prevent ROGG from moving ahead past this stage - Indigenous peoples nationwide, hunters, fishermen, hikers, botanical groups, Sierra Club who has developed a sign on letter for organizations to sign in agreement with available at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxwha-5-SWekY2w2QWthTVhrcFU/view

This is a national issue anyone can comment on at [email protected] if they care to since hundreds of millions of Federal dollars are gonna be used. Hell the study at the link above is costing $1,000,000 dollars alone.

All I ask is that one would help by commenting or having your organization sign on to the letter if you agree after studying the information provided.

I can be pm'd if questions arise.



I think its a great idea to build snapper feedin areas out there in the Glades and the Big Cypress Swamp..... hell Miami has plenty of people who could not peddle or run fast enough to get away from a 13 footer... it would cut down on the overpopulation in the state.:)

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Talkin a bike path on Alligator Alley? Good luck. History>http://www.naples.net/history/aalley.htm They's some big gators warming in the sun sometimes. Don't wanna piss em off. Make sure your're covered in Deep Woods Off. And ride fast. Big sketters will fuck you up. Swarms of em after dark. Like a black cloud. But what would I know. ;)

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

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The bike path is proposed for US 41/Tamiami Trail a two lane road from Miami to Naples.

They actually have to trade off motorist safety to do it - one popular design that endangers folks is one that removes 50% of the space available to pull off highway forcing parked vehicles close to moving traffic.

There is also a petition that one can sign here - https://www.change.org/search?q=rogg

Thousands have already signed it maybe folks here can help too.

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No Way would ever I oppose a good road project - since we need good transportation systems and I am all for them.

Big problem nowadays is gas tax collection is way down and funds scarce for motorized vehicle road repairs but we piss away hundreds of millions on special non-motorized trails for folks that aren't chipping in a nickel. Can't blame them if they can get away with it - nobody wants to pay more taxes.

This one is the only road project (bike path) I oppose due due understanding after around 50 years of using it to access swamps and driving on it the reality of what is happening with this bike path. I have driven it all my life since age 18.

A person in the road building industry in Collier county founded a special group (Naples Pathway Coalition) around 10 years ago to promote it to Collier County government. Over the years it morphed to ensnare Dade County who in turn hooked up with NPS/RTCA to to get the $1,000,000 conduct the current study with that federal grant.

Cyclists and hikers already traverse the route "as is" with no problem since there are 4 ft wide paved shoulders on both sides of the highway that were put there at a cost of $7,000,000 dollars a few years ago by the same road builder pushing ROGG. Many years ago (cerca 1999 - 2000) some of the same proponents for ROGG were asking for the 4ft strips for cyclists, then they got them 'round about 2012 and now they want this for another $145,000,000 dollars of our money.

As far as I am concerned I would prefer just giving this road builder all the fucking $145,000,000 dollars of our money if he would take this bad idea and shove it where the sun don't shine for perpetuity.

ROGG being in the most beautiful parts of the Everglades and Big Cypress Swamp that remain relatively untouched is just the wrong project in the wrong place especially as cyclists get killed in Dade and Collier regularly due to the lack of safe trails in town.

ROGG's plan also discusses narrowing the total width of the pavement on this highway by 25% in unspecified places - not to smart IMHO but no surprise. In the 1st ROGG meeting I attended a consultant mentioned that to avoid an unpopular speed reduction they can narrow this 2 lane road so folks get nervous and slow down - she referred to that stunt as "traffic calming" which upon research showed it can have positive results in urban settings but not on a main arterial highway containing 2 of only 6 lanes connecting Naples to Miami and Ft Laud.

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wan2doit


Big problem nowadays is gas tax collection is way down and funds scarce for motorized vehicle road repairs but we piss away hundreds of millions on special non-motorized trails for folks that aren't chipping in a nickel. Can't blame them if they can get away with it - nobody wants to pay more taxes.



Bullshit.
#1: Every adult cyclist you see probably also has one or more motor vehicles.
#2: Fuel taxes only pay a portion of road maintenance, and that portion is decreasing.

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/05/debunking-the-myth-that-only-drivers-pay-for-roads/393134/

ETA And this belongs in SC, not BF.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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This is what I love about this community -everyone says it like it is.

As to point #1 Agreed 90% and the gas tax they contribute IMHO should go to facilitate their motorized vehicles getting where owners want to drive them to.

As to point #2 Agreed 90% fuel taxes only pay a portion but if they only went to vehicular oriented projects they could be stretched farther. You are right - user pay (per mile maybe) is on the way

This guy seems to understand transportation and has a good deal of transportation http://reason.org/news/show/surface-transportation-news-138#f

Hopefully I won't derail my own thread. :)

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Somebody must need to buy a new boat. We've been fighting a proposal in Glenwood for years to pave the median of a beautiful old road for a bike trail. Nobody wants it. The locals, the bikers. The public meetings have to have cops, because people are so against it. Watch out for all the tricks. They show you three choices and ask which one is best. Just keep telling them to stay out.
I worked in alligator alley forty years ago building bridges. What a hell hole. You'd have to be nuts to ride a bike through there.
U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

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This bike trail is on Tamiami Trail which is about 20+ miles South of Alligator Alley now I-75 but parallel to it.

These suckers have even controlled access to plan info plus tight security on pdf's (no copy/paste/highlight) that greatly slows peoples ability to communicate by rapidly focusing someone to a particular section of text in a document.

Dirty tricks everywhere on this scam but we are prepared for most of them having dealt with scammers down here for decades.

We would just like all the help we can get on this petition.

jackwallace if u need help up your way let me know.

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While driving through alligator alley; I had to take a leak. Went to the side of the road and was attacked by about 1/2 million rather large and hungry mosquitoes. I jumped back in the car and brought about 500 of them with me. Turned the A/C up, was killing them with my hat as they continued to eat me. Had so many bites, it was ridiculous.

Yeah, build a bike trail that nobody would ride. :S

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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BIGUN

While driving through alligator alley; I had to take a leak. Went to the side of the road and was attacked by about 1/2 million rather large and hungry mosquitoes. I jumped back in the car and brought about 500 of them with me. Turned the A/C up, was killing them with my hat as they continued to eat me. Had so many bites, it was ridiculous.

Yeah, build a bike trail that nobody would ride. :S




You just gotta watch out for the 13' long speedbumps.... they snap..... I used to see em frequent like on the road to our training area at Turkey Point....

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I only drove it once.... We are NOT at the top of the food chain in that area.

Humans are to gators in that area; what humans are to bears in Montana. Dinner. :o;)

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Hopefully some can see fit to sign the petition - we could use the help.

When at the link [/url]https://www.change.org/p/help-save-the-everglades-from-more-destruction-stop-rogg-river-of-grass-greenway[url]

Just found out today that an Indigenous lady (Ms Osceola) I am working with on this has a daughter who skydives out of South Miami.

Just clik the link in the center of the page to sign it.

Thanks Much

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Federal funds $1,000,000 dollars of them are paying for this so every resident in America has a right to comment.

We are gathering these signatures so as to send a message to those with the authority to stop this project because it can actually decrease existing levels of motorist safety and cause some major environmental damages.

Federal $$$ = all the people have a say.

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BIGUN I get it but personally I and many others have refused to let risks associated with speaking out on River of Grass Greenway intimidate us in any way.

America (not that it's perfect) wouldn't even be here if our forefathers let themselves be intimidated from speaking out way back around 1773.

Fuck the internet, new world order and all of them.

No Risk = NO Gain!

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