Another police shooting of unarmed suspects

[tikl68 6]

The gun laws in UK are strict to say the least. Yet there are many in prison for life for murder. I was watching an episode of lock up UK and surprised at how many people were in prison. The popular method to commit murder seemed to be by knife. The bad people in this world will find different ways to be "bad". If you remove all guns and some a-hole wants what you have cuz he is to lazy to go earn it , or some punk gets pissed for looking at him the wrong way they will find a way, to harm you and take what they want by any means they can. It will not stop criminals from being criminals.

[BartsDaddy 4]

tikl68

The gun laws in UK are strict to say the least. Yet there are many in prison for life for murder. I was watching an episode of lock up UK and surprised at how many people were in prison. The popular method to commit murder seemed to be by knife. The bad people in this world will find different ways to be "bad". If you remove all guns and some a-hole wants what you have cuz he is to lazy to go earn it , or some punk gets pissed for looking at him the wrong way they will find a way, to harm you and take what they want by any means they can. It will not stop criminals from being criminals.

Exactly and people still want to deny others of the best way to protect themselfs from a much bigger overpowering assailant.
Sorta like the nuke agreement with Iran, allowing everyone might not be the best solution but it is a Hell of a lot better then taking them away from law abiding citizens while acknowledging criminals will not give them up.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[Amazon 7]

BartsDaddy

***The gun laws in UK are strict to say the least. Yet there are many in prison for life for murder. I was watching an episode of lock up UK and surprised at how many people were in prison. The popular method to commit murder seemed to be by knife. The bad people in this world will find different ways to be "bad". If you remove all guns and some a-hole wants what you have cuz he is to lazy to go earn it , or some punk gets pissed for looking at him the wrong way they will find a way, to harm you and take what they want by any means they can. It will not stop criminals from being criminals.

Exactly and people still want to deny others of the best way to protect themselfs from a much bigger overpowering assailant.
Sorta like the nuke agreement with Iran, allowing everyone might not be the best solution but it is a Hell of a lot better then taking them away from law abiding citizens while acknowledging criminals will not give them up.


I do not worry about getting shot by CCW carriers and law abiding citizens... I do worry about gang violence.... and that includes the Blue Gang that is supposed to be protecting us. Shall we say.. some of them are just a tad too trigger happy and ill suited to the job they are supposed to be doing. You have to wonder where they possibly learned that it is ok to open fire so quickly because they are too fucking stupid to figure out a civilized way to deal with another human being.

[tikl68 6]

To start off, the two cops in the video were in the wrong 500 percent. That being said when a cop tells me to keep my hands up or out of my pockets I do as im asked. I was pulled over for speeding coming home from the shooting range. When the cop approached my vehicle I kept my hands on the wheel til he asked for my license...etc. As I gave him these things I told him I had fire arms on board. He asked are they yours?Are they stolen?I answered yes and no. I told him they are in the back of my truck properly stored. He asked me to keep my hands where he could see them and he opened my door and took off my seatbelt, and asked me to step out , all of this in a very calm voice and manner. After receiving a ticket(I was speeding so no complaining) he admired and complimented my 1911 that my father built for me. So if you do what they ask MOST of the time, CHANCES are you will NOT GET SHOT! Just saying.

[jtiflyer 0]

gowlerk

******Comparitively speaking, yeah, I'm going to tell you exactly that.

I'm also going to tell you that any major US city with the shooting stats of Toronto would be held up as the achievement of the impossible dream and a shining beacon of success for whatever policy made it that way. So yeah, it's pretty much the gun violence panacea

ATTN WORLD.... no criminals in LONDON.... Manchester.....Liverpool... Glasgow.... etc... lots of victims.. go get them victims... they is unarmed and unafraid of you...


Criminals here, and there are just as nasty and mean as everywhere else in the world. I travel extensively in the US and I do not fear the gun toting public while I'm there. It's mostly a peaceful place with nice people. All I'm saying is that you pay a price for having so many guns in so many hands. Like the guy in the theater who gets mad because someone is on their cell phone. Words get said, pushing starts, and maybe there is an assault. But if the angry man happens to be packing heat, boom, a murder charge in the heat of the moment for no good reason. If there are more guns more people will use them. If there are less guns, less people will use them. Most of the western world has decided on giving up the pure pleasure of owning and shooting pistols because they don't want to pay the price. America has largely made the opposite decision. I respect that, but I don't respect those who refuse to acknowledge the cost of an armed society.


According to Heinlein an armed society is a polite society. There is quite the difference between the legally armed citizen and a turd with a firearm. Most legally armed citizens hold themselves to a higher standard of social interaction. Knowing the difference between an imminent threat and some asshole kicking the back of your seat in a theater is really not difficult to understand. However a criminal is a criminal, is a criminal. They are not going to be following the law anyway (hence the title of criminal). So adding more laws does not remove the firearms from the dangerous criminals. All it does is disarm the law abiding citizen.

Seriously if "laws" work so well to stop crime, how is that war on drugs still around?

[Coreeece 2]

tikl68

To start off, the two cops in the video were in the wrong...

No shit...

tikl68

being said when a cop tells me to keep my hands up or out of my pockets I do as im asked.

right, but being a confused dumbass high on meth and alcohol while trying to explain to the cops that they got the wrong guy, should not be a death sentence. The cops should know better...

If you can't handle the job and constantly fear for your life, then quit...you should know what you're getting into.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[bigbearfng 9]

right, but being a confused dumbass high on meth and alcohol while trying to explain to the cops that they got the wrong guy, should not be a death sentence. The cops should know better...

______________________________________________

Oh yea-cops should be mind readers too...........

[tikl68 6]

"No shit",easy killer! yes it should not be a death sentence for being a complete idot and as you put it "a confused dumbass on meth and alcohol". But again COMPLY. That is also why my post also said something... I dont know about,less than lethal training for the "cops that constantly fear for their life" and the" confused dumbass meth heads that are drunk", dont forget the crackheads.

It should also not be a death sentence just going to work. Yes the cop chose the job over being a mechanic or a lawyer, but if no body wanted to be a cop cause its dangerous, doesnt sound like a society i want to live in, unless you let me legally police myself then all is good.

[BartsDaddy 4]

Amazon

******The gun laws in UK are strict to say the least. Yet there are many in prison for life for murder. I was watching an episode of lock up UK and surprised at how many people were in prison. The popular method to commit murder seemed to be by knife. The bad people in this world will find different ways to be "bad". If you remove all guns and some a-hole wants what you have cuz he is to lazy to go earn it , or some punk gets pissed for looking at him the wrong way they will find a way, to harm you and take what they want by any means they can. It will not stop criminals from being criminals.

Exactly and people still want to deny others of the best way to protect themselfs from a much bigger overpowering assailant.
Sorta like the nuke agreement with Iran, allowing everyone might not be the best solution but it is a Hell of a lot better then taking them away from law abiding citizens while acknowledging criminals will not give them up.


I do not worry about getting shot by CCW carriers and law abiding citizens... I do worry about gang violence.... and that includes the Blue Gang that is supposed to be protecting us. Shall we say.. some of them are just a tad too trigger happy and ill suited to the job they are supposed to be doing. You have to wonder where they possibly learned that it is ok to open fire so quickly because they are too fucking stupid to figure out a civilized way to deal with another human being.

Amazon there is a lot of stuf you post I shake my head and wonder, but this you and I agree completely.

I grew up being taught to respect and obey LEO, and that worked at that time. Now they are the last people I want involved in just about any dispute I am involved in. It is better to handle it without them a lot of times.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[BartsDaddy 4]

tikl68

"No shit",easy killer! yes it should not be a death sentence for being a complete idot and as you put it "a confused dumbass on meth and alcohol". But again COMPLY. That is also why my post also said something... I dont know about,less than lethal training for the "cops that constantly fear for their life" and the" confused dumbass meth heads that are drunk", dont forget the crackheads.

It should also not be a death sentence just going to work. Yes the cop chose the job over being a mechanic or a lawyer, but if no body wanted to be a cop cause its dangerous, doesnt sound like a society i want to live in, unless you let me legally police myself then all is good.

You are right it should not be a death sentence just going to work, but if you pick a dangerous occupation it could be on any given day. It sucks but that is reality.
I worked for many year's contracting in oil refineries. Any day I went to work could have been my last. There were a couple that came close to that.

LEO is not the only ones that can die on their job. And they actually are rated lower then many other jobs for risk of dieing on the job. But they are one of the few that can maim and kill people on the job without much fear of going to jail.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[tikl68 6]

agreed. I chose a dangerous job also. Cops are human beings and there for not perfect. If they do shoot and maim or kill a person and it was found not justifiable then they should be prosecuted and treated like any other criminal.

An armed society is a polite society.

[BartsDaddy 4]

tikl68

agreed. I chose a dangerous job also. Cops are human beings and there for not perfect. If they do shoot and maim or kill a person and it was found not justifiable then they should be prosecuted and treated like any other criminal.

An armed society is a polite society.

Yes but what is deemed justifiable for a LEO gets you or I 20 to life. It gets them 2 to 6 months paid vacation. Now I know that is not all the time but to many times it is.
What we need is when it is found to be unjustified the LEO has to pay the judgements to the families, rather then the taxpayers. And a neutral party to decide what is justified or not. Rather then coworkers.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[Coreeece 2]

bigbearfng

right, but being a confused dumbass high on meth and alcohol while trying to explain to the cops that they got the wrong guy, should not be a death sentence. The cops should know better...

______________________________________________

Oh yea-cops should be mind readers too...........

Exactly...cops aren't mind readers - that much is apparent. That's why they probably shouldn't shoot unarmed victims. I mean, there wasn't even a shiny object to blame...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

tikl68

An armed society is a polite society.

Indeed, just look at how lovely all those street gangs are to each other.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[bigbearfng 9]

Coreeece

***

right, but being a confused dumbass high on meth and alcohol while trying to explain to the cops that they got the wrong guy, should not be a death sentence. The cops should know better...

______________________________________________

Oh yea-cops should be mind readers too...........

Exactly...cops aren't mind readers - that much is apparent. That's why they probably shouldn't shoot unarmed victims. I mean, there wasn't even a shiny object to blame...


You missed the point............It would be great to put all the armchair quarterbacks thru some shoot/don't shoot scenarios.

[kallend 1,621]

bigbearfng

******

right, but being a confused dumbass high on meth and alcohol while trying to explain to the cops that they got the wrong guy, should not be a death sentence. The cops should know better...

______________________________________________

Oh yea-cops should be mind readers too...........

Exactly...cops aren't mind readers - that much is apparent. That's why they probably shouldn't shoot unarmed victims. I mean, there wasn't even a shiny object to blame...


You missed the point............It would be great to put all the armchair quarterbacks thru some shoot/don't shoot scenarios.

Same goes for all the armchair Rambos.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tikl68 6]

An armed society is a polite society refers to legitimate law abiding citizens. If a criminal knows Im carrying a firearm and can legally use it they would probably think twice about robbing me. If one person had been carrying a firearm in the theater in the recent shooting, that person could have possibly changed that outcome. Same with the recent church shootings.

Key phrase "street gangs"

[tikl68 6]

"It would be great to put all the armchair quarterbacks thru some shoot/dont shoot scenarios" "and armchair rambo's". I have done some competitive shooting on a local level, and again dad is an orange county sheriff. They have a mobile 40 ft trailer that is set up as a mobile training center that has a life size screen in it and reacts to specially designed laser pistols that resemble and function like a real firearm. I spent 8 hours in it one day. Very intense. One of the scenarios I went thru I was called to a business for a drunk being disorderly. I made contact and asked him to come off the dock and talk to me. He was belligerent and not complying and reached in to a brown paper bag after I asked him to keep his hands where I can see them. I drew my weapon and asked again to see his hands. He pulled his hand out of the bag and it was just donuts. My dad said why did you pull out your weapon. I said common sense says he MIGHT be reaching for a gun, I did not shoot only drew my weapon. He said you can not escalate only match force with force. He ran the scenario again,and this time I did not draw just continued with voice commands and same thing, hand in bag not complying but eventually did and yep donuts again situation resolved. He ran it a third time and this time when he reached into the bag, before I could finish telling him" sir let me see your hands" he pointed the bottom of the bag at me and it exploded, BANG, video stooped, I just got shot. Its a tough job and yes they chose it, and people make mistakes and should be held accountable for them, but not all cops are bad. Dealing with people on a daily bases is tough, and add criminal element, and drugs and alcohol to the mix, it takes a unique person, to do that job perfectly all the time.

[turtlespeed 212]

tikl68

"It would be great to put all the armchair quarterbacks thru some shoot/dont shoot scenarios" "and armchair rambo's". I have done some competitive shooting on a local level, and again dad is an orange county sheriff. They have a mobile 40 ft trailer that is set up as a mobile training center that has a life size screen in it and reacts to specially designed laser pistols that resemble and function like a real firearm. I spent 8 hours in it one day. Very intense. One of the scenarios I went thru I was called to a business for a drunk being disorderly. I made contact and asked him to come off the dock and talk to me. He was belligerent and not complying and reached in to a brown paper bag after I asked him to keep his hands where I can see them. I drew my weapon and asked again to see his hands. He pulled his hand out of the bag and it was just donuts. My dad said why did you pull out your weapon. I said common sense says he MIGHT be reaching for a gun, I did not shoot only drew my weapon. He said you can not escalate only match force with force. He ran the scenario again,and this time I did not draw just continued with voice commands and same thing, hand in bag not complying but eventually did and yep donuts again situation resolved. He ran it a third time and this time when he reached into the bag, before I could finish telling him" sir let me see your hands" he pointed the bottom of the bag at me and it exploded, BANG, video stooped, I just got shot. Its a tough job and yes they chose it, and people make mistakes and should be held accountable for them, but not all cops are bad. Dealing with people on a daily bases is tough, and add criminal element, and drugs and alcohol to the mix, it takes a unique person, to do that job perfectly all the time.

Of course, if he had donuts, it was prolly a cop anyway. So he wouldn't have shot another cop.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,121]

In skydiving we often say that you can do everything right and still die. Those who continue to skydive accept that risk and generally try to continue to do everything right.

The same is true in policing, you can do everything right and still die. What we appear to be seeing is an increase in cops doing things wrong, since they are scared of doing it right and dying anyways.

(or at least with video becoming so much more common, an increase in cops getting caught)

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi Sky,

Quote

an increase in cops doing things wrong

I tend to think not. I think the difference is:

Quote

(or at least with video becoming so much more common, an increase in cops getting caught)

We know now more than we did before; and we have proof.

Jerry Baumchen

[Amazon 7]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Sky,

Quote

an increase in cops doing things wrong

I tend to think not. I think the difference is:

***(or at least with video becoming so much more common, an increase in cops getting caught)

We know now more than we did before; and we have proof.

Jerry BaumchenIt is far harder for power tripping dickweeds to get away with shit now.... since so many carry smart phones ready to record in an instant.

It make it far harder for the Gang in blue to alibi their bro's

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

It make it far harder for the Gang in blue to alibi their bro's

Sometimes even when police do try to call out bad actors nothing happens. Here is a case where four officers and two other witnesses have all given depositions that an officer shot someone while that person had his empty hands (no weapon) up on top of a screen door, while the person was talking to a police negotiator. Two years later, the prosecutor is "still investigating".

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Amazon 7]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

It make it far harder for the Gang in blue to alibi their bro's

Sometimes even when police do try to call out bad actors nothing happens. Here is a case where four officers and two other witnesses have all given depositions that an officer shot someone while that person had his empty hands (no weapon) up on top of a screen door, while the person was talking to a police negotiator. Two years later, the prosecutor is "still investigating".

Don

Then they need to throw that bitch in the clink for malfeasance as well.
I have no sympathy for good ole boy networks who are culpable.