Nuclear Deal with Iran

[Andy9o8 0]

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I just do not see how doubling down on the course of action that created modern Iran in the first place, that has failed to change their behavior, and that undermines a general pro-Western sentiment among the younger and educated population, is supposed to make anything better.

Why not? It worked with Cuba.

That said, though, my analysis still tells me this is a bad deal on several levels, the day of which we will someday come to rue.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into debt so we can give money to those that hate us.

You aren't giving them any money.

[Andy9o8 0]

SkyDekker

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It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into debt so we can give money to those that hate us.

You aren't giving them any money.

The reduction of economic sanctions is the functional equivalent. And it really kicks in immediately, before they ever earn an extra Euro from it, for it instantly makes them more credit-worthy, thereby giving them immediate access to financing.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Andy9o8

***

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It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into debt so we can give money to those that hate us.

You aren't giving them any money.

The reduction of economic sanctions is the functional equivalent.

How does that put you into further debt?

I don't think this deal is a great deal by any stretch of the imagination, but making comments about going into debt to give them money is nowhere near accurate.

[Andy9o8 0]

I wasn't addressing Turtle's point, I was addressing yours.
I don't think it necessarily puts us in debt, but I do think it functionally equates to giving them money.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Exactly my point Andy gets it thank you.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

***How did appeasement work out for Chamberlain? Hitler called them "worms" after the deal, then grew his military and resources to the point where avoiding war was impossible.

The Ayatollah already chants death to America and a few days ago said nothing will change between Iran and the "arrogant" Americans. As we give him the reins and $150 billion dollars.

Appeasement will fail here too.

It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into debt so we can give money to those that hate us. They giggle all the way to the bank, where they cash the check, spend a very very small percentage on their people and use the rest as the want.

It's akin to the black couple down the street, taking out a loan, and donating the money to the KKK organization on the other side of the lake, just so they wouldn't buy ammo for their guns. Think it will work?

... UH.. no one is giving them money.. it is their money locked away from use due to sanctions.. I guess the spin zone machine left that part out of their disinformation campaign.

It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into FACTS... they matter.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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That said, though, my analysis still tells me this is a bad deal on several levels, the day of which we will someday come to rue.

Would you mind saying why you think this is a bad deal on several levels? Also if you have a suggestion about a better deal, one that the Iranians might actually agree to, I'd like to hear it. I realize one might dislike this deal without necessarily having a concrete alternative. I'm fairly confident you aren't a proponent of the "glass parking lot" school of thought.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Amazon 7]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

That said, though, my analysis still tells me this is a bad deal on several levels, the day of which we will someday come to rue.

Would you mind saying why you think this is a bad deal on several levels? Also if you have a suggestion about a better deal, one that the Iranians might actually agree to, I'd like to hear it. I realize one might dislike this deal without necessarily having a concrete alternative. I'm fairly confident you aren't a proponent of the "glass parking lot" school of thought.

Don

I wonder how many others are standing shoulder to shoulder with Huckabee at the "Doors to the Ovens"

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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I wonder how many others are standing shoulder to shoulder with Huckabee at the "Doors to the Ovens"

It's a stretch (to say the least) to suggest Andy is standing shoulder to shoulder with Huckabee. I'm sure he's got something intelligent to say (unlike, say, Huckabee), and I'd like to hear it.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 1,623]

Anvilbrother

How did appeasement work out for Chamberlain? Hitler called them "worms" after the deal, then grew his military and resources to the point where avoiding war was impossible.

The Ayatollah already chants death to America and a few days ago said nothing will change between Iran and the "arrogant" Americans. As we give him the reins and $150 billion dollars.

Appeasement will fail here too.

In 1938 the RAF was ill equipped to deal with a vastly superior Luftwaffe fresh from the Spanish Civil War. The Luftwaffe had Bf109s, against which the RAF's biplane Gladiators would have been sitting ducks. Had the UK gone to war in 1938 the the Battle of Britain (alternative history) would have definitely gone the other way. The UK outproduced Germany in fighter aircraft between Munich and the summer of 1940, significantly closing the fighter gap.

Appeasement bought the RAF the time it needed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

******How did appeasement work out for Chamberlain? Hitler called them "worms" after the deal, then grew his military and resources to the point where avoiding war was impossible.

The Ayatollah already chants death to America and a few days ago said nothing will change between Iran and the "arrogant" Americans. As we give him the reins and $150 billion dollars.

Appeasement will fail here too.

It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into debt so we can give money to those that hate us. They giggle all the way to the bank, where they cash the check, spend a very very small percentage on their people and use the rest as the want.

It's akin to the black couple down the street, taking out a loan, and donating the money to the KKK organization on the other side of the lake, just so they wouldn't buy ammo for their guns. Think it will work?

... UH.. no one is giving them money.. it is their money locked away from use due to sanctions.. I guess the spin zone machine left that part out of their disinformation campaign.

It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into FACTS... they matter.

See Andys reply above.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Anvilbrother 0]

What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[turtlespeed 212]

Anvilbrother

What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

It doesn't, fuck the kids and the children left behind.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

***What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

It doesn't, fuck the kids and the children left behind.

I bet that the kids and children of those who cut the security budgets for the state department will be just fine... and I bet they will never be in uniform... or go off to war... that is reserved for the lesser folk in our society.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

******What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

It doesn't, fuck the kids and the children left behind.

I bet that the kids and children of those who cut the security budgets for the state department will be just fine... and I bet they will never be in uniform... or go off to war... that is reserved for the lesser folk in our society.

Always has been, are you bitter about that?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

*********What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

It doesn't, fuck the kids and the children left behind.

I bet that the kids and children of those who cut the security budgets for the state department will be just fine... and I bet they will never be in uniform... or go off to war... that is reserved for the lesser folk in our society.

Always has been, are you bitter about that?

Noblesse oblige... are you bitter about that??

I guess that went out of style in this country 70 years ago.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

************What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

It doesn't, fuck the kids and the children left behind.

I bet that the kids and children of those who cut the security budgets for the state department will be just fine... and I bet they will never be in uniform... or go off to war... that is reserved for the lesser folk in our society.

Always has been, are you bitter about that?

Noblesse oblige... are you bitter about that??

I guess that went out of style in this country 70 years ago.no. I understand reality.

Those that have the gold make the rules.

Ask your buddy Bill Clinton if he served in the military. I did, I volunteered. I did my part as I thought everyone who loves this country should.

I'm sure you did too.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

I did, I volunteered.

Did you turn down a Rhodes Scholarship to do so? Would you have?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[turtlespeed 212]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

I did, I volunteered.

Did you turn down a Rhodes Scholarship to do so? Would you have?

Don

No, I didn't, but I'm pretty sure I would have and just postponed it until I did my duty for my country.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

***************What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

It doesn't, fuck the kids and the children left behind.

I bet that the kids and children of those who cut the security budgets for the state department will be just fine... and I bet they will never be in uniform... or go off to war... that is reserved for the lesser folk in our society.

Always has been, are you bitter about that?

Noblesse oblige... are you bitter about that??

I guess that went out of style in this country 70 years ago.no. I understand reality.

Those that have the gold make the rules.

Ask your buddy Bill Clinton if he served in the military. I did, I volunteered. I did my part as I thought everyone who loves this country should.

I'm sure you did too.

I certainly did serve.. 8 years from 71 to 79.... but then again... he was not upper class like so many of the GOP leaders we have had for the last 20 years.... who managed to find champagne units to "serve" in... or like Rmoney who demonstrated FOR the war... but found it convenient to never serve.
He grew up with a single mother household... like I did. I think he did a bit better than I did... although I seem to have done fairly well and will retire well.

[kallend 1,623]

turtlespeed

***************What does it even matter anymore?- Hillary

It doesn't, fuck the kids and the children left behind.

I bet that the kids and children of those who cut the security budgets for the state department will be just fine... and I bet they will never be in uniform... or go off to war... that is reserved for the lesser folk in our society.

Always has been, are you bitter about that?

Noblesse oblige... are you bitter about that??

I guess that went out of style in this country 70 years ago.no. I understand reality.

Those that have the gold make the rules.

Ask your buddy Bill Clinton if he served in the military. I did, I volunteered. I did my part as I thought everyone who loves this country should.

I'm sure you did too.

There's a very long list of people who served their country well without serving in the military: Alan Turing (and the rest of the Enigma codebreakers) comes to mind. The physicists at Los Alamos too.

OTOH, poor old Harry Moseley chose to be cannon fodder, much to the very great loss to his country and the world.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Very good point.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Anvilbrother 0]

"Iran will have outside inspectors to monitor the progress".....insert side deal...welllll maybe you can just use your own Iranian inspectors. Why is this deal so secret? MSNBC is saying it is possible the White House doesn't even know the details of all these side deals.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,395]

>"Iran will have outside inspectors to monitor the progress".....insert side
>deal...welllll maybe you can just use your own Iranian inspectors. Why is this
>deal so secret?

"Iran can use its own inspectors" - Google News search - About 93,300 results

>MSNBC is saying it is possible the White House doesn't even know the details
>of all these side deals.

Right, because it's a deal between the IAEA and Iran, not Iran and the US. The US uses the IAEA as the organization that actually does the inspections.

Personally if they allow inspections with Iranian inspectors AND IAEA inspectors, I am fine with that. If they can self-inspect with no oversight, that's a bad idea.