Greece implosion

[Amazon 7]

lawrocket

Clinton cut the capital gains tax. The one that the left hates so much.

I hear he got some blow jobs.... no wonder conservative men hate him so much..

[brenthutch 383]

lawrocket

*********

Don't think the US, UK and other non-Euro nations won't be affected. The big US banks are all involved, the $US and UK pound will rise (affecting trade balance), Europe will probably enter another recession and drag the rest of the world with it.

And the rich will get richer, as someone already stated.

Well, there really aren't any wealthy in Greece anymore. The only ones are going to be the ones that got the hell out of there before the government took everything.

.
G
Not quite true. I was there last year; there are plenty of very wealthy folks left in Greece. What they did is get their MONEY the hell out.

Yeah.

Greece owes about $325 billion. That's the debt that was borrowed.

Greece has a population of 11 million people - a little more than LA County. Where did all that money go? Did it go to the wealthy? Did that massive amount of money just go to the rich to park it offshore?

Of course it didn't. The easiest way to destroy wealth is to spread it around. Greece created too many takers. Then they created very high taxes.

Bingo! I was listening to a sob story on NPR about two pensioners, one a retired school teacher and the other a retired cop. They were lamenting their plight, and had me feeling sorry for them until it was disclosed that they were 42 and 47 years old respectively.

[lawrocket 3]

Amazon

***Clinton cut the capital gains tax. The one that the left hates so much.

I hear he got some blow jobs.... no wonder conservative men hate him so much..

Nice to see a substantive response. sire, you just got your ass handed to you. Kinda like Monica has her whole life since giving Clinton the blow job. If you think the Clinton tax cuts ruined the economy, you should see what the Clinton blow job did for Monica's life. Democrats refuse to employ her.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[yoink 321]

And once again, a thread in Speakers Corner which might just possibly have started out with some interesting international commentary has devolved to US right wing vs left wing bullshit.

Good job guys.


*Golf claps

[Amazon 7]

lawrocket

******Clinton cut the capital gains tax. The one that the left hates so much.

I hear he got some blow jobs.... no wonder conservative men hate him so much..

Nice to see a substantive response. sire, you just got your ass handed to you. Kinda like Monica has her whole life since giving Clinton the blow job. If you think the Clinton tax cuts ruined the economy, you should see what the Clinton blow job did for Monica's life. Democrats refuse to employ her.

In you're dreams The deficit was headed in the right direction ... down under Billy ... till the deserter got into office. W's policies got us to the deficit we see today.... but I don't expect anyone on the fringe right to ever cop to that. This president has presided over the fixing of all the fuck ups with a bunch of fuckups elected by more fuck ups to do everything they can to completely fuck up the economy. Welcome to your wet dream oligarchy...

[coozer 0]

Quote

Something to think about when US debt exceeds $20 trillion by the end of the year. (that's straight up debt and doesn't include unfunded future liabilities).

That is correct, if you add in derivatives risk and change the word debt to risk...

The the US figure jumps up to around 800 trillion... so approaching a quadrillion.

Derivatives are so complex that even the regulators could not understand them enough to legislate restrictions on them.

The whole kicking the can down the road will only work for so long, and while the big banks continue betting against each other, heck betting against themselves, with derivatives... then the end result of the impending crash only gets worse.

Greece may or may not be a catalyst fora major meltdown, but it would appear that liquidating the Greek debt would be much cheaper for everyone, than pursuing it for profit.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/09/risk-quadrillion-derivatives-market-gdp/

***Big Risk: $1.2 Quadrillion Derivatives Market Dwarfs World GDP[/url]

[Coreeece 2]

Quote

Greece implosion

...and in other news, homosexuals are gay...

Up Next:
Obama care doesn't cover cancer - the new #1 killer in America...but who gives a shit, we'll still treat you anyway- hooray!!! Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die! The dollar is fucked!

You people think I'm joking, lol....

......to be honest...it's probably a good thing while it lasts...

We have failed to live up to the standards of humanity, as little as they are....might as well do what we can, eh?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Skyrad 0]

Grexit is inevitable, even if not this week then in a few years time and once they go so will the rest of the EU PIGS nations. They should never have been allowed in when they were.
I think the UK will leave by 2020 as well.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kallend 1,621]

Skyrad

Grexit is inevitable, even if not this week then in a few years time and once they go so will the rest of the EU PIGS nations. They should never have been allowed in when they were.

That is correct. Greece (with the assistance of Wall St. banks, particularly Goldman Sachs) fudged its books to meet the defined requirements for entry into the Euro zone. It fudged its military expenditures, its health expenditures, and its tax revenues, and really had no budget with a basis in fact. Not even finance minister Papaconstantinou knew what the fiscal situation was.

It's easy to blame "socialism" for the troubles, but as Scandinavia shows, socialism can work very effectively. Greece's troubles are simply due to incompetence and greed, with no adults in charge.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Kallend. The Greek people voted themselves the goodies. The drawing pensions at at 40 isn't how to build a sustainable government.

Greek also went first because not only did it pull that pension bs but it also isn't keen on manufacturing. Two thirds of the Greek economy are services. services don't create wealth on a macroeconomic level.

Take a look at the attached for the U.S.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[coozer 0]

Quote

They can always follow the Cyprus model.

Just roll up the banks and confiscate anything in an account over 100k Euros.

You will be suprised how many nations have implemented legislation to allow exactly that by law since then...

[kallend 1,621]

lawrocket

Greek also went first because not only did it pull that pension bs but it also isn't keen on manufacturing. Two thirds of the Greek economy are services. services don't create wealth on a macroeconomic level.

Take a look at the attached for the U.S.

Yes, and who has been driving the US economy away from manufacturing? Not the blue collar workers, that's for sure. (The 1983 SOTU address has a clue).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

***
Greek also went first because not only did it pull that pension bs but it also isn't keen on manufacturing. Two thirds of the Greek economy are services. services don't create wealth on a macroeconomic level.

Take a look at the attached for the U.S.

Yes, and who has been driving the US economy away from manufacturing? Not the blue collar workers, that's for sure. (The 1983 SOTU address has a clue).

Actually, fed gov regualations have been the biggest driver of moving/forcing manufacturing jobs out of the US

The lead mine in MO is the lastest example

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,621]

rushmc

******
Greek also went first because not only did it pull that pension bs but it also isn't keen on manufacturing. Two thirds of the Greek economy are services. services don't create wealth on a macroeconomic level.

Take a look at the attached for the U.S.

Yes, and who has been driving the US economy away from manufacturing? Not the blue collar workers, that's for sure. (The 1983 SOTU address has a clue).

Actually, fed gov regualations have been the biggest driver of moving/forcing manufacturing jobs out of the US

The lead mine in MO is the lastest example

I gave you the clue. Your research-fu is weak.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Good old Bernie Sanders has just let the world know that if he becomes President, he will solve the problem of mounting US debt. He blasted Greece's creditors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/bernie-sanders-greece_n_7709322.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

This is how the Socialist works. Borrow money under terms that are agreed to. Socialist doesn't pay it back. Borrows more money under additional terms. Blows through all of it and doesn't pay it back.

Then blasts the lenders for wanting the money back and for offering more money on new terms.

Bernie: you actually scare me more than Santorum did.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 1,621]

lawrocket

Good old Bernie Sanders has just let the world know that if he becomes President, he will solve the problem of mounting US debt. He blasted Greece's creditors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/bernie-sanders-greece_n_7709322.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

This is how the Socialist works. Borrow money under terms that are agreed to. Socialist doesn't pay it back. Borrows more money under additional terms. Blows through all of it and doesn't pay it back.

Must be why the Scandinavian and other highly socialized countries are in such bad shape.

Sweden - AAA
Norway - AAA
Denmark - AAA
Finland - AA+
Germany AAA
UK - AAA
Netherlands - AA+

Oh, wait. Maybe you're just plain wrong.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 908]

Skyrad

Grexit is inevitable, even if not this week then in a few years time and once they go so will the rest of the EU PIGS nations. They should never have been allowed in when they were.
....

Quite right(from 2011):
"“I was among many economists in Germany warning against premature entry into the monetary union and against too many countries.”

The commission this month estimated Greece’s 2011 budget shortfall will be 9.5 percent on debt of 158 percent of gross domestic product, more than twice the EU’s limit of 60 percent. Its debt burden will continue to swell to 166 percent in 2012 without policy changes, according to the commission.

The currency blocs “rules were not observed,” Issing said at a speech yesterday. “There are flaws in the design.” The euro will survive, “but I would not bet on all 17 countries,” he said. "
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-05-26/greece-cheated-to-join-euro-sanctions-since-were-too-soft-issing-says

[lawrocket 3]

kallend

***Good old Bernie Sanders has just let the world know that if he becomes President, he will solve the problem of mounting US debt. He blasted Greece's creditors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/bernie-sanders-greece_n_7709322.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

This is how the Socialist works. Borrow money under terms that are agreed to. Socialist doesn't pay it back. Borrows more money under additional terms. Blows through all of it and doesn't pay it back.

Must be why the Scandinavian and other highly socialized countries are in such bad shape.

Sweden - AAA
Norway - AAA
Denmark - AAA
Finland - AA+
Germany AAA
UK - AAA
Netherlands - AA+

Oh, wait. Maybe you're just plain wrong.

You must be right. Obviously, government debt is the result of capitalist laissez faire policies. A government that doesn't spend is the one that goes bankrupt first.

It's simple. Greece ran out of money. It has now run out of other places' money to throw away. Because it is laissez faire all the way, right? I'll bet Milton Friedman sees Greece as the pinnacle of his dogma, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[yoink 321]

The sad thing is that it's now a game of poker.

Both players (I believe) were playing bluffs. The Greek government's was on national pride and the belief that a strong pushback would allow them to negotiate stronger terms with creditors, the rest of the EU on the inevitability of Greek exit.

Both of those options SUCK.

Either the EU gives in and throws good money after bad, (and let's see where that leads!), or it imposes a really bad time on the Greek people who have been led down the garden path by corrupt officials.

As sad as it is, I don't think the EU can blink. Greece needs to go and find its own way for a while - as painful as that may be. And the rest of the EU need to learn some pretty fucking serious lessons.

[Guest]

Iago

And it's looking like it's finally done.

Projecting a 60%+ NO vote on a new deal with creditors.

I really believe the rest of the EU needs to kick them out. Five years of paying someone bills for a bunch of check-cashing wankers that want full pensions at 40 is enough.

If you bought Greek debt you're screwed. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Better luck in Vegas.

If you had a fiduciary responsibility and you bought Greek debt on behalf of your clients, pension, or mutual funds you should go to jail.

I spent some time in Greece, and I found it to be much like a lot of Eastern Europe: an inflated sense of entitlement coupled with corruption and graft.

IMO he only reason they lasted so long in the EU was because of German guilt.

The Greeks can go join the rest of the rotten East Europe penny-ante kleptocracies. Come back when you have some sense of responsibility. Maybe Greece should have gone commie back in the 50's along with Yugoslavia. Couldn't be any worse.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[muff528 3]

Iago

***Good old Bernie Sanders has just let the world know that if he becomes President, he will solve the problem of mounting US debt. He blasted Greece's creditors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/bernie-sanders-greece_n_7709322.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

This is how the Socialist works. Borrow money under terms that are agreed to. Socialist doesn't pay it back. Borrows more money under additional terms. Blows through all of it and doesn't pay it back.

Then blasts the lenders for wanting the money back and for offering more money on new terms.

Bernie: you actually scare me more than Santorum did.

Well, that depends. What do the socialists have in trade?

Let's say I've got a note for a sizable chunk of cash that was lent to the Greek people. They can't pay it back. Well, it just so happens I've got my eye on a couple of hundred acres of coastal property on Crete. I'll take that and we'll call it even.

Well, you'll call it even. This would be a win-win for Greece. I wonder how many times over they will make you pay for that property (in the form of confiscatory property taxes and other "taxes" on "the wealthy") before they finally quit playing and "nationalize" all your stuff. They'd probably wait until you develop a resort or something before they liberate it and cast you as the villain. The real "Golden Fleece".

Reminds me of the old snake parable.

[kallend 1,621]

markharju

***And it's looking like it's finally done.

Projecting a 60%+ NO vote on a new deal with creditors.

I really believe the rest of the EU needs to kick them out. Five years of paying someone bills for a bunch of check-cashing wankers that want full pensions at 40 is enough.

If you bought Greek debt you're screwed. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Better luck in Vegas.

If you had a fiduciary responsibility and you bought Greek debt on behalf of your clients, pension, or mutual funds you should go to jail.

I spent some time in Greece, and I found it to be much like a lot of Eastern Europe: an inflated sense of entitlement coupled with corruption and graft.

IMO he only reason they lasted so long in the EU was because of German guilt.

The Greeks can go join the rest of the rotten East Europe penny-ante kleptocracies. Come back when you have some sense of responsibility. Maybe Greece should have gone commie back in the 50's along with Yugoslavia. Couldn't be any worse.

mh
.

If (when) Greece goes down it will take a bunch of European banks with it. The US banks don't have much direct exposure to Greek debt, but Wall St. has about $2 Trillion of exposure to European banks. And then there are the credit default swaps - who remembers AIG?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

lawrocket

******Good old Bernie Sanders has just let the world know that if he becomes President, he will solve the problem of mounting US debt. He blasted Greece's creditors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/bernie-sanders-greece_n_7709322.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

This is how the Socialist works. Borrow money under terms that are agreed to. Socialist doesn't pay it back. Borrows more money under additional terms. Blows through all of it and doesn't pay it back.

Must be why the Scandinavian and other highly socialized countries are in such bad shape.

Sweden - AAA
Norway - AAA
Denmark - AAA
Finland - AA+
Germany AAA
UK - AAA
Netherlands - AA+

Oh, wait. Maybe you're just plain wrong.

You must be right. Obviously, government debt is the result of capitalist laissez faire policies. A government that doesn't spend is the one that goes bankrupt first.

It's simple. Greece ran out of money. It has now run out of other places' money to throw away. Because it is laissez faire all the way, right? I'll bet Milton Friedman sees Greece as the pinnacle of his dogma, too.

You are both right....sort of.

The issue isn't capitalism or socialism. The issue is spending money you do not have.

Those countries on the list also have high taxes to pay for the social programs. And, somehow they aren't all populated by lazy people living off welfare.

The problem with Greece is mounting debt and a population which has always refused to pay their taxes.

In the US they have gone so far as convincing people that lowering taxes will dramatically increase revenue and therefor mounting debt isn't a problem, as long as we also lower taxes.

[kallend 1,621]

Iago

(shrug)

Doesn't bother me. I use a credit union.

So you weren't in any way affected by the Wall St. implosion in 2007-9?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,380]

>Doesn't bother me. I use a credit union.

That seems similar to saying "I don't really care if the farms go under - I get my food from a supermarket."