Freddie Gray autopsy

[skycop 0]

Quote

I'm sorry, they have to prove the driver did something intentional to show he was negligent?

I think you need to double check what negligence means...

Not having him buckled in COULD be criminal negligence. Hitting the brakes, turning sharply ON PURPOSE would be murder (maybe), that's what he's charged with.

The prosecutor made a huge mistake charging "up" on this, once the actual facts come out, they will matter. Unlike the media reports.

But then again, in all these situations, the facts didn't matter to the media.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,121]

skycop

Quote

I'm sorry, they have to prove the driver did something intentional to show he was negligent?

I think you need to double check what negligence means...

Not having him buckled in COULD be criminal negligence. Hitting the brakes, turning sharply ON PURPOSE would be murder (maybe), that's what he's charged with.

The prosecutor made a huge mistake charging "up" on this, once the actual facts come out, they will matter. Unlike the media reports.

But then again, in all these situations, the facts didn't matter to the media.

Facts didn't matter to the cops either. Those facts not mattering are what lead to Freddie's death.

Baltimore's "finest" have a long history of not letting facts stand in the way of a good ass kicking, false arrest, death or severe injury.

[skycop 0]

Quote

Facts didn't matter to the cops either. Those facts not mattering are what lead to Freddie's death.

Baltimore's "finest" have a long history of not letting facts stand in the way of a good ass kicking, false arrest, death or severe injury.

More platitudes, coming from you, that's surprising...........

Take one look at the current crime rate in Baltimore, then argue facts.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Amazon 7]

skycop

Quote

Facts didn't matter to the cops either. Those facts not mattering are what lead to Freddie's death.

Baltimore's "finest" have a long history of not letting facts stand in the way of a good ass kicking, false arrest, death or severe injury.

More platitudes, coming from you, that's surprising...........

Take one look at the current crime rate in Baltimore, then argue facts.

Are you arguing those people need ass kicking's.. to keep em in control???

[skycop 0]

Not at all,
What I am saying is when the cops back off, bad things happen. Proactive police work prevents crime, it's that simple.

The Ferguson situation was based on a lie, the narrative simply wasn't true, the facts didn't matter. Put that with the Baltimore prosecutor burning a bridge with the police she has to prosecute cases with, you are looking a recipe for crime to spike significantly, and it has.

We've enjoyed historically low crime rates for the last 15yrs, that is going to change at least for the short term.

I've been in numerous situations where if someone videoed the interaction, it would have looked bad, but was 100% right. No cop wants the 24 hour news cycle to fall on his head, Ferguson showed you can be right, and they still come down.

You've never heard me defend police misconduct, nor will I.
This is going to be a mess at trial, my WAG is several of the officers will walk, one or two will get convicted of some type of manslaughter. Most likely the van driver and the supervisor at the scene.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 622]

Cuff 'em and stuff 'em failed in this case.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

skycop

Quote

Facts didn't matter to the cops either. Those facts not mattering are what lead to Freddie's death.

Baltimore's "finest" have a long history of not letting facts stand in the way of a good ass kicking, false arrest, death or severe injury.

More platitudes, coming from you, that's surprising...........

Take one look at the current crime rate in Baltimore, then argue facts.

The city tax payers have paid enough settlements in Baltimore.

Of course crime is up, the cops are giving everybody a big "fuck you". The thin (thick?) blue line in action. No surprise.

[lawrocket 3]

skycop

Quote

Facts didn't matter to the cops either. Those facts not mattering are what lead to Freddie's death.

Baltimore's "finest" have a long history of not letting facts stand in the way of a good ass kicking, false arrest, death or severe injury.

More platitudes, coming from you, that's surprising...........

Take one look at the current crime rate in Baltimore, then argue facts.

This sounds like condoning the behavior. When the cops were the thugs the crime rate was down. When the cops had to stop being thugs it went up again.

Baltimore should be instituting some proactive policing. It hasn't. The impression is they just don't know how to do.

I saw what you wrote afterward, and I agree. On the other hand, cops have a legitimate reason to fear the system. Because cops know how it really works. Overcharging? You bet.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skycop 0]

Quote

Baltimore should be instituting some proactive policing. It hasn't. The impression is they just don't know how to do.

Feigning knowledge, but knowing zero about implementation.

IMHO all the prosecutors office had to do was lead, they decided to go the "social justice" route. Much like our current POTUS in regards to police matters. The leadership in Baltimore has failed, I think we'd all agree on that.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 622]

I don't understand.
How was this different from charging civilian criminals?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

normiss

I don't understand.
How was this different from charging civilian criminals?

It was different, because it wasn't different, which of course is highly offensive. Don't you know we have a badge? You can't treat us like the regular scum that roams the streets.

[billvon 2,396]

>How was this different from charging civilian criminals?

Strong charges against civilians is being "tough on crime."

Strong charges against cops is liberal "social justice" nonsense. THANKS OBAMA!

[skycop 0]

Political motivation perhaps?

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,121]

skycop

Political motivation perhaps?

Or ego is a good possibility too.

Like the go involved with, how dare you run away from me and try and show me up. I am going to arrest you on questionable charges regarding this knife that may or may not be legal. Then, I am going to give you the ride of your life. That should teach you not to challenge me again.

[skycop 0]

Quote

Strong charges against cops is liberal "social justice" nonsense. THANKS OBAMA!

I know it's taken a while, but Bill, you're finally coming around...........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

SkyDekker

***Political motivation perhaps?

Or ego is a good possibility too.

Like the go involved with, how dare you run away from me and try and show me up. I am going to arrest you on questionable charges regarding this knife that may or may not be legal. Then, I am going to give you the ride of your life. That should teach you not to challenge me again.

Well, he won't be challenging their authority again, now will he?

Ego is a huge factor.

Failure to "respect their authority" can be a capital offense.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[normiss 622]

How is it politically motivated when you charge someone suspected of a crime, with the actual crime they are suspected of committing?
I must be thick, I'm really having trouble understanding that.

If I take a large solid box, and bounce you around town in it for a couple of hours and it kills you, why would you not expect me to be charged with a stack of crimes?

Surely you're familiar with the typical over-charging within the "justice" system in order to make sure some charges stick?
It's the seed of the plea deal.

[skycop 0]

Quote

It's the seed of the plea deal.

I seriously doubt there will be a plea in this, during trial the actual facts come out. There will be no chanting crowds and political grandstanding, at least inside the courtroom (hopefully).

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[rehmwa 2]

1 - to the driver and the cops - seriously guys, seatbelt the kid in, drive nice, once he's in your custody and for all intents and purposes, HELPLESS - you have a duty to keep him safe. NO matter what happened prior to that point.

2 - to the kid, don't be a dumbass, if you are in the back of the van, don't stand up, scream, try to walk around, or be a jackass. Especially if you already have damage.



but in this case, the cops were supposed to be the responsible ones - I have a hard time seeing them get off for real, or on any trumped up technicality

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,254]

skycop

Quote

I'm sorry, they have to prove the driver did something intentional to show he was negligent?

I think you need to double check what negligence means...

Not having him buckled in COULD be criminal negligence. Hitting the brakes, turning sharply ON PURPOSE would be murder (maybe), that's what he's charged with.

Um, no it isn't.

The offence he is charged with is defined as acting with indifference to human life (knowing that his actions are putting someone in increased danger) resulting in someone's death.

That does not in any way imply deliberately driving the van in a way that was intended to hurt or kill Mr Gray. It is fully covered by shackling him hand and foot and putting him unrestrained into a metal box knowing that, driving being driving, the van may need to swerve or brake sharply.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 622]

Betcha a beer they don't walk. Not fully.
They tripped, they will fall.

This one isn't as easily covered up and justified like so many others.

[skycop 0]

Some will, some won't.

But remember we are basing all this on media accounts. If there is some kind of prosecution bombshell that could change the dynamics, things could change, but I doubt it.

Juries can be unpredictable as well, we'll see. I'd be surprised if someone pleas.

I hear all this bullshit about the "Thin Blue Line" of silence, cops will roll just like anyone else, sometimes more so, I've seen it happen.

This is something different, the prosecution created a high burden of proof, I don't think they can reach it.

Like I said, this thing is going to be interesting.
It's obvious they violated policy, taking that to a murder charge is going to be extremely difficult.

We'll see, meanwhile Baltimore burns.............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[mirage62 0]

If he wasn't belted in someone should get in trouble - period.

But as a previous poster stated, Ferguson showed that the police can be doing their job and the press, white house, Sharpton ect, ect can and will make a mess of things.

I realize that some here just have to believe that Ferguson (Wilson) had to do SOMETHING wrong because heck someone died.

Here someone died, therefore someone did something wrong and I tend to agree but the officers that made the arrest....the knife.....ect, ect......well I'll hold my judgment till the facts come out but unless it was there job to belt him in my guess is they just got screwed cause the country is going ape shit over this kind of thing.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

But as a previous poster stated, Ferguson showed that the police can be doing their job and the press, white house, Sharpton ect, ect can and will make a mess of things.

The biggest problem with Ferguson in my opinion is with how the messaging was handled after the incident.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Juries can be unpredictable as well, we'll see.

Jury selection is always crucial. It can be a huge wild card. This case, once it's finally over some day, will almost certainly reinforce that principle.

One illustrative example just off the top of my head: the jury in the first OJ Simpson criminal case, resulting in his acquittal, was quite different from the jury in the first civil lawsuit against Simpson (arising out of the same facts and basically the same evidence), which ended in a huge monetarily punitive civil verdict against Simpson. That was not mere happenstance.

And yes, juries can also be very unpredictable.