South Carolina to remove Confederate flag

[brenthutch 383]

Will we now have to rename Forts Benning, Bragg, Gordon, A.P. Hill, Lee, Hood, Polk and Picket? How is naming an Army base after a KKK leader less offensive then the Stars and Bars?

#can of worms

[Bolas 5]

My biggest objection to all of this is it's all happening the wrong way for the wrong reasons.

An act of unspeakable violence was committed by a deranged psychopath (terrorist?) against his secondary target. A fixed flag on the capital building was also a prop in his pictures.

Disinformation ran rampant. Then vandalism. Threats of riots and looting followed.

The changes being made aren't being done in the name of progress, but intimidation and fear. Some may think the ends justify the means.

The worst part of all of this is their are those out there that may think the flag removal was the solution that will prevent something like this from happening in the future.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

wmw999

Absolutely they can fly it as individuals. Just as they can fly any other flag as individuals: the Mexican flag, the Soviet Union, or the (Godwinning this thread now ) the Nazi flag.

And it says something about them.

Wendy P.

Absolutely agree that, as private citizens, they can fly whatever flag they wish.

But it does say a lot about them.

So does this:

Quote

"We can all believe in what we want to believe in, but this flag needs to move past what it actually stood for”

That quote seems to be saying that they acknowledge the history behind the flag, the truth of what a lot of people are saying about it, but simply refuse to believe that their display of it means any of that.

Riiiiight.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[masterrig 1]

I'm sure that will happen.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

I'd be willing to bet that a very high percentage of soldiers going to or stationed at those bases have no clue who those bases are named after. Oh... and I'd bet they don't care!


Chuck

[Amazon 7]

RonD1120

Here comes the push back, more will follow.

http://wfla.com/2015/06/25/tampa-bay-area-group-rallying-with-confederate-flags/

And I pushed back personally over the last few days... If anyone in my Facebook friends list put up a Confederate flag........ they have been unfriended... that included redneck family members. Good Riddance!!!!

[Amazon 7]

masterrig

I'd be willing to bet that a very high percentage of soldiers going to or stationed at those bases have no clue who those bases are named after.


Chuck

Guaranteed..... history as found in books approved by the Texas Board of Education has done a disservice to America for quite a while now

There it is...

It just got worse for Texas.... http://www.donna4texas.com/

SURE... make a fringe right wing whack job head of the board of education.... a woman who homeschooled her children... graduated from a questionable university.... it just gets worse and worse.

[brenthutch 383]

Amazon

***Here comes the push back, more will follow.

http://wfla.com/2015/06/25/tampa-bay-area-group-rallying-with-confederate-flags/

And I pushed back personally over the last few days... If anyone in my Facebook friends list put up a Confederate flag........ they have been unfriended... that included redneck family members. Good Riddance!!!!

Good for you!
It is funny that you don't become outraged until the NYT and MSNBC tell to be. Reminds me of the kerfuffel over the Redskins.

[futuredivot 0]

Finally, someone who gets it. Last year would have been good. Six months from now would be good. Now it is just a source of division.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Amazon 7]

brenthutch

******Here comes the push back, more will follow.

http://wfla.com/2015/06/25/tampa-bay-area-group-rallying-with-confederate-flags/

And I pushed back personally over the last few days... If anyone in my Facebook friends list put up a Confederate flag........ they have been unfriended... that included redneck family members. Good Riddance!!!!

Good for you!
It is funny that you don't become outraged until the NYT and MSNBC tell to be. Reminds me of the kerfuffel over the Redskins.

And another swing and a miss.


I have had a problem with people who love to fly it for a long time.... usually for the reason that they are not celebrating heritage.. but segregation based on race.... I guess all that blithering about the constitution and patriotism etc is also reserved for whites only in that segment of the population.

[brenthutch 383]

Why did it take you so long to take action?

[Driver1 0]

Amazon

***Here comes the push back, more will follow.

http://wfla.com/2015/06/25/tampa-bay-area-group-rallying-with-confederate-flags/

And I pushed back personally over the last few days... If anyone in my Facebook friends list put up a Confederate flag........ they have been unfriended... that included redneck family members. Good Riddance!!!!

I live in a 25K population southern town and there have been pick-up trucks running around town with big 3 x 5 or 5 x 8 confederate flags mounted from their truck beds... and the drivers almost always look like rednecks, with beards and ball caps.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[Amazon 7]

brenthutch

Why did it take you so long to take action?

The ones who did it must have been closet cases... or newer adds.. distant relatives who are also working on our family trees. That is one problem with having so much extended family from the deep south where the family lines have lived for hundreds of years

[kallend 1,623]

Bolas

My biggest objection to all of this is it's all happening the wrong way for the wrong reasons.

I think it should have happened decades ago. Its removal from public property is the right thing to do. As for the reasons being wrong, this serial shooting was just a catalyst, not the reason.

The flag is a battle flag of an organization that fought a bloody war AGAINST the United States. It is a symbol of the willingness to do violence against the USA in order to perpetuate an institutionally racist society.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skypuppy 1]

TriGirl

***
First it was never a state flag. It was designed as a battle flag for the southern states. The X is the main difference. It represents the south wanting out of the Union after the northern aggression to push their laws on the south. It was the succession movement which is what lead to the civil war. ... Simply their wanting to leave the union.

This has always been my point about that flag. It represents a group of states that wanted to secede. Isn't that treason? To me it symbolizes the group of states who advocated treason. Or if the state is flying the flag today, it's by default saying it wants to secede (form another Confederacy).

The founders in the 1770s got away with treason because their declaration and campaign was successful. Why would any member of the Union (today) want to cling to the membership of another (no longer existing) country?

So, that's my argument on the subject. I really don't like the informal polls that are asking people whether the flag symbolizes heritage or slavery (only two choices), when there are so many other nuances to consider.

the confederate states decided to get out of the union because the union was set up as a confederation of largely autonomous states, and the gov't unilaterally decided to decrease the autonomy of the states to run things the way they wanted and to impose their governance from Washington. They created some extra democratic territories in order to swing the votes their way. When the southern states realized they were losing the original powers to govern themselves, they quite rightly decided they hadn't signed up for that...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Anvilbrother 0]

I also read that the north wanted to impose 40% tax on slaves but the south was countering with 10% showing that the north wasn't against slavery at one point just wanted their cut.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[jclalor 12]

I never was a big NASCAR fan, but I have a whole new respect for this father and son.



http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/dale-earnhardt--junior-both-criticized-confederate-flag-165220032.html;_ylt=AwrTHQg8iI1Vs18AKSbBGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTEyM3Vna2FsBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQTAwNTdfMQRzZWMDc3I-

[kallend 1,623]

skypuppy

******
First it was never a state flag. It was designed as a battle flag for the southern states. The X is the main difference. It represents the south wanting out of the Union after the northern aggression to push their laws on the south. It was the succession movement which is what lead to the civil war. ... Simply their wanting to leave the union.

This has always been my point about that flag. It represents a group of states that wanted to secede. Isn't that treason? To me it symbolizes the group of states who advocated treason. Or if the state is flying the flag today, it's by default saying it wants to secede (form another Confederacy).

The founders in the 1770s got away with treason because their declaration and campaign was successful. Why would any member of the Union (today) want to cling to the membership of another (no longer existing) country?

So, that's my argument on the subject. I really don't like the informal polls that are asking people whether the flag symbolizes heritage or slavery (only two choices), when there are so many other nuances to consider.

the confederate states decided to get out of the union because the union was set up as a confederation of largely autonomous states, and the gov't unilaterally decided to decrease the autonomy of the states to run things the way they wanted and to impose their governance from Washington. They created some extra democratic territories in order to swing the votes their way. When the southern states realized they were losing the original powers to govern themselves, they quite rightly decided they hadn't signed up for that...

So when they were lying in their secession statements, and their Vice President was lying when he said the foundation of the Confederacy was maintaining slavery and the inferiority of the African race.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

brenthutch

Will we now have to rename Forts Benning, Bragg, Gordon, A.P. Hill, Lee, Hood, Polk and Picket? How is naming an Army base after a KKK leader less offensive then the Stars and Bars?

#can of worms

How do you think US WW2 vets would feel if in 2015 German military bases were named after Goering, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Canaris..., and the Nazi banner was flown outside the Bundestag, with the excuse "it's who we are"?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

>How do you think US WW2 vets would feel if in 2015 German military bases were named
>after Goering, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Canaris..., and the Nazi banner was flown outside
>the Bundestag, with the excuse "it's who we are"?

How do you think US WW2 vets would feel if we named a US town in Kentucky after Goering? And if the people who lived there used the lame excuse "well, that's the name of the town?"

[Anvilbrother 0]

Why don't you step back over here and answer my question.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4738644;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=50;

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[DanG 1]

Let it go, dude. It's a political subforum on a skydiving website.

- Dan G

[Anvilbrother 0]

DanG

Let it go, dude. It's a political subforum on a skydiving website.

Ok I will put you down for being ok with him lying to everyone here two times in a week.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 1,623]

Anvilbrother

***Let it go, dude. It's a political subforum on a skydiving website.

Ok I will put you down for being ok with him lying to everyone here two times in a week.

Ummm - YOU confirmed that I live on the south side of Chicago, after telling me that I didn't. YOU spent many posts trying to tell me I don't know where I live.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Ok I will put you down for being ok with him lying to everyone here two times in a week.

Whatever. Like I said, it's a political subforum on a skydiving website.

And it's your blood pressure, do with it what you will.

- Dan G