tandem students and alcohol

[Ron 10]

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I wonder how many of the people posting about alcohol have had a beer before the sunset load?You people need to put down the sticks before you poke yourselfs in the eye.

You don't see the difference between an experienced jumper who had a beer...(not that I think that is a good idea either) and a student?

Even if it is just a tandem, the liability goes through the roof incase of an accident.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I see a huge difference between having a beer and being intoxicated.And no I don't think anyone should drink and skydive.Other than the fact that we are a sue happy country I don't see a problem with a tandem passenger having had a beer.I do have a problem with people reporting things like this rittled with half truths,but having followed this alittle I would not have expected anything more.

This rant not aimed at you Ron


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[PROSpark 0]

I thought i would make another attempt to post some facts on this matter. 1) In 3 weeks of operation this DZ has had the aircraft down for maint. 2 of them. While the owner has stated that the plane is a good solid aircraft this last bought with the DZ will result in a new engine replacement. 2) Here is a post in todays paper i think everyone needs to realize that this is not a DZ war but rather a political issue with the city/zoning. Remember skydiving in the US is a priveldge not a RIGHT!!
Lead Story...
Zoning appeals board turns down skydiving
By Andrew Mouzin, Staff Reporter


?An almost full room of people in opposition to a proposed skydiving center adjacent to the Lawrence Smith Memorial Airport heard the Cass County Board of Zoning Appeals on July 6 unanimously deny a request from PJE Properties, the KC Skydiving Center, for a special-use permit for a skydiving center on its five-acre property.

The county had initiated a stop order in April with the skydiving owners, Paul and Joanna Eriksmoen, to cease and desist their operations until zoning applications could be approved.

The Eriksmoens have appeared before the planning and zoning board twice, each time their request for the special-use permit was denied.
The first time the denial was issued because of an improper land use request.

However, in spite of the stop order the Eriksmoens continued to operate their skydiving center at the airport.

Cass County Presiding Commissioner Gary Mallory said the county’s intention is to make the skydiving operation stop operating at the airport.

“If we have to go to court to make them stop, that’s what we’ll do,” he said.
Opponents voiced their concerns about the possibility of the Eriksmoens continuing their skydiving operation over the airport.

Jim Selph, an opponent of the request, was worried about what could happen if someone does get hurt.

“I’ve been through these operations (at the airport) before and I don’t want to do this again,” he said.

He said the Eriksmoens would have operated over the Fourth of July holiday weekend, but their engine was fried.

“He (Eriksmoen) doesn’t care about any rules or regulations,” he said. “He’s going to open at any and all costs,” Selph said.

Cass County assistant prosecuting attorney Debbie Moore said she would file a civil action against the Eriksmoens if they continue to operate.

Paul Eriksmoen said he and his wife did not show up at the July 6 meeting because they believed the board was not going to listen to what they had to say.

“At that point, the Cass County board had already made up its mind at the fact they believed they owned the airspace over Cass County which they are mistaken upon,” Eriksmoen said.

Despite the possible legal ramifications, the skydivers have continued to sky dive at the airport.

Eriksmoen maintains the Federal Aviation Administration regulates the airspace over the United States, not the county and under FAA guidelines, they have the full authority to sky dive.

Eriksmoen said he believes the board didn’t care to hear what they had to say.

“It didn’t seem like they wanted to listen to anything that we submitted and we submitted quite a bit of paperwork from the FAA and the United States Parachute Association and even with all of that, they really didn’t want to listen to us,” he said.

Eriksmoen said they would file a formal appeal in Cass County Circuit Court asking a judge to review their request.

[Andy9o8 1]

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this is not a DZ war

Yeah, right.
You guys must really think the rest of us are idiots. You just keep trying and trying.

Psst! Zip up your fly. Your agenda is showing.

[Skymonkey13 0]

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Thanks for the info JR and pointing me to this thread.I needed some entertainment this morning.I thought these people would have gotten bored of this crap and gone back to skydiving.Who has not seen an airplane leak oil.I wonder how many of the people posting about alcohol have had a beer before the sunset load?You people need to put down the sticks before you poke yourselfs in the eye.


And why do you think he pointed you to it?....hmmmmmm....let me guess.....because he knew you'd bring your spoon?

Don't you have a life, spence



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[CSpenceFLY 1]

I guess about the same as the rest of you people.If you don't like my posts stop reading them.If you people don't like the attention stop posting all of this crap.


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[HippieCain 0]

Alright, now seriously - That article was interesting

(the original is here: http://www.demo-mo.com/news2-071406.html ).

But what is really going on? It doesn't make sense. If the county can't keep them from operating, then why bother with any of the zoning issues in the first place? If you are going to operate under a stop order, then you will probably operate no matter what the "Officials" say. So why bother with the appeal and all that jazz?

Let's not forget this is the same city/county (airport for that matter) that ousted one dz already.

So to simplify this to see if I understand, you have Cass County saying "Stop" and then you have the dzo saying "Make Me". That's pretty much where things are at this point, right? Can the county keep this business from operating? I know the FAA has jurisdiction over what happens in the air, but doesn't the city, county, or state have some say as to what businesses operate on the airport? And isn't that what we're talking about here?

I know this topic has a tendency to get out of hand, but there are some very real issues at play here. First of all, we have the local governing bodies dead set against a skydiving center opening - and that sux. But we also appear to have a defiant dz that maybe left out a few steps in their due dilligence prior to opening the business and is now in a knock-down-drag-out with the local governments. Nothing about this situation appears to be helping our sport.

Fuck The Details

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Your right it's not helping our sport.Neither is a DZ being refused access to a federally funded airport.Or a DZ being forced off of an airport after 12yrs of doing business there(Skydive Monroe in Ga.)All of you people that think you are helping our sport by helping to get this DZ put out of business you are sadly mistaken.What you are doing is helping set precedent for the same thing to happen somewhere else.You might think you are safe because you have been there for X numbers of years.Tell that to Skydive Monroe,tell that to Gold Coast.You people better wake up and smell the Jet-A.Your DZ might be on the next airport that aspires to be the new corporate aviation meca.To this town and any other that does not want to play by the rules I say fine,give back all of the tax money that you have taken to build your airport and you can have your own little sand box.Don't take the tax dollars with strings attached and then try to play by the same good old boy system.This town caused their plight.They took the money,now their airport is fair game for skydiving.


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[Skymonkey13 0]

Noone said they did'nt like reading your post, Spence. Actually they are kind of amusing, sort of like watching reruns of Forrest Gump.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Is that the best you can do?


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[live2skydive 0]

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Nothing about this situation appears to be helping our sport.

You’re right. I’m sure it didn’t help our sport when your boss, Chris Hall, distributed fliers door to door in Harrisonville that stated that “a school of this size on this airport could ultimately result in the loss of your Life Flight operation, as they would be forced to operate in a less congested and safer airport” and that “there is no economical growth or compensation for the city for this inconvenience to its residents” and that “in fact, it may affect the property value of those closest to the airport.”

I’m sure it also didn’t help the sport when Chris (cessnas), Tommy Dolphin (chutejump), Allen Strausbaugh (PROSpark), and Don Zarda (jumper410) all spoke about all of the negative effects of having a skydiving center in this community at both the city board meetings and recently at these county zoning meetings.

All that this did was create an even worse picture of a sport that many people already don't understand. These individuals may think that what they are doing is best for their own businesses, but I can assure you that in the end it is detrimental to this sport as a whole.

[Ron 10]

The pettyness of you folks is killing me.

Spence is right on.

You folks who are trying to willingly shut down a DZ are really stupid. Competition brings better prices. Lets try and take a small sport and kill it by being children

On a personal note Don Zarda!!! Tennis Ball Head!!!! I have not seen or heard from him in years.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[HippieCain 0]

I think you may have mis-understood me. I have done nothing to stop this dz from operating. I have watched this topic with great interest, and the most difficult thing has been sifting through the finger-pointing and hesaidshesaid crap. People on both sides of this issue have behaved like children (especially in these forums).

As soon as someone sees that Skydive Kansas City is listed as my home dz they assume that I'm trying to kill any and all possibility of competition. I was actually looking forward to the possibility of having a place to jump during the week. SDKC is my home dropzone because that's where I started and that's where my friends are. That doesn't mean that it's the only place I can jump. Or that I'm at war with any other dz in the area.

The assumption is also made that if anyone says anything even remotely negative about the new dz that person is trying to kill the new dz in the name of competition. Let's be honest, Paul (whom I don't know and have never met, so it's nothing personal) maybe didn't go about this endeavor the best way he could've. I have read all the meeting minutes (I know those don't include every word) and newspaper articles and have tried to base my opinions on that rather than what I heard from this person or what that guy said on dz.com.

Either way, my questions in my previous post were genuine: Can Cass County really stop this dz from operating? If the County cannot stop a skydiving operation on a Federally Funded Airport, then why bother with the zoning process to begin with? And, is it true that anyone can operate any business they want because it's a Federally Funded Airport?

This has been my first experience with dz politics, and so far, it really sux. The worst part is, people that I really enjoy jumping with won't jump anywhere in KC because they HEARD that this dzo or that dzo did something they feel was unethical. If the county does block this dz the finger-pointing will really get bad. I didn't see anywhere in the Harrisonville Meeting Minutes that suggested the City was swayed by anything that any of the skydivers said.

I think that Paul and someone at either the city or the airport got together and tried to ram-rod a deal through and when the deal became public knowledge, whom ever Paul was dealing with had to back-peddle and left him high and dry. Again, I don't know Paul so I can't say anything about his character, but it seems that he tried to jam this thing through before all his bases were covered. I don't think that's entirely his fault, but I don't think that where things are now is the fault of any other area dzo either. Things are so bad at this point in the county fight that it's not even a matter of what's right, it's a matter of who's going to win. And the whole of Kansas City Area Skydiving is going to suffer.

Fuck The Details

[Ron 10]

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I think you may have mis-understood me. I have done nothing to stop this dz from operating. I have watched this topic with great interest, and the most difficult thing has been sifting through the finger-pointing and hesaidshesaid crap. People on both sides of this issue have behaved like children (especially in these forums).

Not even thinking about you....Just a general observation. I didn't even check where you were from.

It juat amazes me how people can band together to shut down a DZ.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[HippieCain 0]

That wasn't actually directed at you Ron. I just hit Reply on the last one. I was just making a general remark about some of the common assumptions associated with this topic.

Fuck The Details

[Fallosophy 0]

Havn't read any of the replies so apologies if this has been said.

I think anyone who has the urge to skydive impaired be it drugs or alcy does not deserve to skydive.

[StreetScooby 5]

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I think anyone who has the urge to skydive impaired be it drugs or alcy does not deserve to skydive.

Get over it...

We are all engines of karma

[Witelli 0]

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I have recently heard reports of tandem students being allowed to drink beer at a local non-uspa dz before going up on their jump. They were told that "since they were going tandem it didn't matter if they drank one or two." This just seems crazy and reckless to me.

Who is impaired enough by 1 or 2 beers to ride tandem? I'd draw the line at 2 in one hour, but that just doesn't make much sense. The human body metabolizes the equivelent of 1 beer per hour. For the one in control, I would say they shouldn't have any. But, 1 or 2 for a tandem passenger, C'mon. That just calmes the nerves enough to strip them of their money. Leave it to the discresion of the tandem master. Noone can possibly measure the amount of impairdness in an individual anyway, it's a hopeless cause. Alcohol is not the only thing that impairs BTW, what about: caffeine, nicotine, dehydration, malnutrition, altitude, hormones, meds, should I go on??? I've hear of people pass out due to dehydration at altitude, much worse than 1 or 2 beers on a tandem, SORRY!!!

[jerry81 10]

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I think anyone who has the urge to skydive impaired be it drugs or alcy does not deserve to skydive.

Get over it...

Agree...some people seem impaired by nature and manage to present a greater hazard to themselves and others in the sky while being completely sober and some other people can remain just as safety-conscious as ever after their midday toke or whatever. But that particular horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp a few times over already.

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[CSpenceFLY 1]

In case no one noticed,this thread has absolutely nothing to do with tandem students and alcohol.


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[PROSpark 0]

***/reply]



I’m sure it also didn’t help the sport when Chris (cessnas), Tommy Dolphin (chutejump), Allen Strausbaugh (PROSpark), and Don Zarda (jumper410) all spoke about all of the negative effects of having a skydiving center in this community at both the city board meetings and recently at these county zoning meetings.

[jrsides 0]

I'm interested in knowing how Allen Strausbaugh knows the engine is fried on the aircraft we have based there? I just brought it back here to have it overhauled and inspected and the engine shop hasn't even opened it up yet. Is there something you know that we don't?
I also find it interesting how you can call me up to totally discredit this DZ and then attempt to lease this aircraft out from under them. (By the way, I have this in a recorded voice mail message)
I don't think anything you say makes sense. I am really sorry for you that instead of spending your time in a positive way helping students and other skydivers, you have made this a personal crusade to tear these peoples dreams to shreds.

[PROSpark 0]

JR,

In reference to your post I would like to clairify that my call to you was to tell you how the aircraft was being flown. When an AG pilot says they are flying the piss out of your aircraft on every load then the writing is on the wall bud. I was told by several pilots,and local management that the engine had to be pulled and now you are saying the case has to be split. Call it what you want but that means the engine is due for an overhaul or fried as the local paper quoted!! In reguards to the voice mail i left you on the aircraft my interest was not to lease your plane, we have a fleet of 3 cessnas that are good solid planes and have no need for a 4th. I was wanting to see how Paul can lease and aircraft, insure it,maint. it and fuel it and still make a profit with only 3 guys going to 11k for 60.00 per load??? So my question was how much do you lease your aircraft per hour. At this point i understand you have no interest in hearing the facts about this man and his relentless dedication to operating reguardless of what the city/county officials have to say. As a business man myself i would have to disagree with the fact that your willingness to assist someone who is about to be shut down must be for money reasons only!!

Allen

[Skymonkey13 0]

As a famous king once said, (Rodney King), Ouch, ouch, ouch

[Skymonkey13 0]

Wait till Spence gets back, he will straighten all this crap out.

He knows all.......at least he thinks so.