tandem students and alcohol

[billvon 2,720]

>If you can tell they have been drinking they cannot be flown.

Well, no. If they're intoxicated they cannot be flown. When we'd fly to Conn for the $100 hamburger, my friends would have a few beers while I drank pepsi, and then we'd fly back. Nothing illegal about that - although if they got falling down drunk I wouldn't have flown back with them. (Obvious problems might ensue in a C172 with two drunk guys in it.)

[kkeenan 14]

Quote

At our dz no alcohol is being served at alle during the activites. Whoever wants to have a beer will have to wait untill the jump activities are finished. Visitors of the dz follow the same policy.

Yeah, right. I don't suppose that DZ has a parking lot, does it ?

Kevin
---------------------------

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[gthomas101 0]

As far as the drinking thing going on I dont know and cant say for sure, as far as a group leaving the dropzone after watching a 206 not have such a good day and going to another dopzone and doing there tandems there I can say 110% this happened, because well I photographed everyone of them and listened to the stories, some of the stories were typical non jumper stories, I dont know about you guys but I have seen my share of 182s jump started with a pickup, Ive seen planes blow engines , but some of the stories hit the nail right on the head.

The reason I replied to this is the couple of threads attacking the reason for this post, is it politics to give a shit about the skydiving community in KC well maybe you can call it what you want, but ask yourself this since the tandem accident a few weeks back how many of you have been ask about this, 75% of our students know about it and ask about it, and that happend in another state, so lets say something happens in little old hickville MO just out side of KC at the largest dropzone in kansas city just how many of the tandems are going to give us a call and say hey did you here about somebody getting hurt and by the way can I come spend 200 bucks. so everybody that calls this dropzone politics can well for the lack of a better word F#%$OFF. this about keeping things real and making skydives in the safest way possible.

Oh and if this post weems a little grumpy welp its monday and I jumped my ass off this weeked and Im tired and my ex wife has all of my money but I still stand on the F^$% OFF statement.

gthomasphoto.com

[KCSkydivingCtr 0]

I would just like to emphasize what The Kansas City Skydiving Center's steadfast policy on alcohol consumption is. If a tandem student shows up and has had anything to drink, they will not be allowed to jump, period. We will reschedule them and let them know that if they return again after drinking, they will not be rescheduled again and their deposit will be forfeited.

As for experienced jumpers, if one so much as tried to get on one of our aircraft after consuming alcohol, they would be asked to leave and to never return. Alcohol consumption and skydiving do not mix!

This group of tandems showed up as part of a bachelor party. Two members of the group had been consuming alcohol and were told that they would not be able to make a skydive that day. The remaining nine tandems were informed that they could not drink and that if they did, they would not be allowed to jump. Manifest even went so far as to state to them that they would be keeping an eye on them.

There was a group of tandems before them that had already undergone training and was in the process of jumping, while this group was being checked in and filling out paperwork. Unlike many dropzones, we do not train everyone as one large group. We take each group seperately and they receive personalized, detailed training. They are shown how the parachute system works, as well as each person spending time on our arch table to show them correct body position. I have worked at dropzones around the country and can say with absolute certainty that our first-jump tandems receive far more detailed training than any dropzone that I have seen.

Before their group was up to be trained, our aircraft began leaking some oil (it was not "belching oil all over the tarmac".) It was a small leak, and the aircraft probably could have been topped off and kept flying. Nonetheless, despite the fact that this was a large group of people, all from out-of state, who would not be able to reschedule, I made the call to ground the aircraft until we could fix the oil leak. I radioed manifest and instructed them to let the tandems know what the situation was and to issue them refunds. These tandems never even saw the aircraft, but we did inform them that the airplane had an oil leak and we were not willing to compromise their safety in order to get them in the air. We even went so far as to give them the contact info for the other area dropzones so that they might be able to jump that day.

Fireballgrl, you may be the girlfriend of a competing dropzone owner and therefore think you know "all the facts", but I suggest that you not make public comments about something that you don't have first-hand knowledge of. The only thing in your post that has a bit of truth to it is the fact that our aircraft was leaking oil. Everything else was a blatant lie.

The Kansas City Skydiving Center

[Ron 10]

Quote

>If you can tell they have been drinking they cannot be flown.

Well, no. If they're intoxicated they cannot be flown

Depends on your definition of "Intoxicated"

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Belgian_Skygirl 0]

Well... maybe the drinking habbits are different in Europe (off topic). In Italy, France, Spain it is not unusual to take a glass of wine with dinner.

It reminds me of a story. We were on a holiday in Portugal once and we met a couple that used to live in the States. They asked for a bottle of wine in a restaurant (dinner) and they were asked: a whole bottle? They had the feeling they were considered as alcoholics, whil here it is not unusual to drink a bottle of wine while having dinner in a restaurant. Of course, this is not done dayly or at home...

But at our dz there is a strict alcohol restriction during the activities, even for non-jumpers. In £empuria f.i. one can have a beer if I am not mistaken, but I never saw a jumper drinking during the activities... but this may be just what I saw and I had other things to do of course ....

-------------------------------------------------

No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it?

[fireballgrl 0]

For those that have pmed me with questions about details or my involvment, I have been advised to be quiet about the situation as there is an investigation in progress.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Of course, light the fire, get called out, then refrain from speaking... because of the "process" of "investigation"

Jeesh dont people realize were not all stupid and can see right through alot of bullshit. Damn annoying. Entertaining since its not in my life but damn annoying that its part of this sport and that alot of jumpers are suffering in KC because of jealous shit.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[WatchYourStep 0]

Quote

I have been advised to be quiet about the situation as there is an investigation in progress.

That's the best thing I've heard all day and probably some good advice.

I've not weighed in on this issue since the beginning. I've stayed neutral. I didn't pass judgment, but actually went and saw the dreaded KCSC. You know what? I had an effing blast up there. Paul was really nice and even jumped with me on 2 jumps. I also watched the training that the tandems received. It was comparable to what students receive at my home DZ, Skydive Kansas. I didn't hear any bad mouthing about other DZs. Paul's big concern was being safe and having fun.

Since the KCSC has opened up it's been one thread after the next about; landing off, tandems being allowed to drink, false advertising, etc and it's all been from the same group of people. Geez guys come on. I look forward to jumping at the other KC dropzones but you're posts are leaving a horrible taste in my mouth. The vibe some of you are putting off is horrible.

Now I'll admit when the original website for KCSC went up, it was indulging to say the least, but it seems Paul has fixed a lot of things on there. We could look at other websites (skydiving and non-skydiving) and find "questionable" claims.

Look quit worrying about what so and so is doing. Have fun where you are at, with your friends. When I go some place I don't care what the politics are of the DZ. I'm there to have fun. I hope that when I come up to another KC dz to visit I don't get attitude because I jumped at "that place." If I do whatever, I'll gladly pack up and move on.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[Ron 10]

Quote

If that were true, airlines couldn't serve alcoholic beverages, could they?

Sure they could. But notice they will not let you get "Intoxicated".

Tell ya what, call the FSDO in your area. Ask them if a Tandem student is allowed to have a beer before they jump.

Then please, post what they tell you.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,720]

>I have been advised to be quiet about the situation as there is an investigation in progress.

D'oh! A good reminder to everyone that what is posted here can be used in a libel suit, or in other sorts of legal proceedings.

[vpozzoli 0]

Quote

For those that have pmed me with questions about details or my involvment, I have been advised to be quiet about the situation as there is an investigation in progress.

Could you at least calirfy what is actually under investigation? Is it the "facts" you reported or is it your own involvement?
One cannot help but wonder.

Vale

[bch7773 0]

Quote

Fireballgrl, you may be the girlfriend of a competing dropzone owner and therefore think you know "all the facts"

and we wonder what her motivation was for posting

MB 3528, RB 1182

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

For those that have pmed me with questions about details or my involvment, I have been advised to be quiet about the situation as there is an investigation in progress.

It seems to me that the advise to be quiet came a little late. Next time you want to rat out someone/someplace be up front about it.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jumper410 0]

Quote

Of course, light the fire, get called out, then refrain from speaking... because of the "process" of "investigation"

I was at MRVS the day these tandems arrived from KCSC. They were very upset at what they saw at KCSC versus what their website bosted. They could not believe the level of deception. They were amazed at the striking difference in facilities when they arrived at MRVS.

The issue fireballgirl is referring to about the investigation is not a hoax or an excuse not to divulge. It is a real deal. The Eriksmones immediately that afternoon called USPA, on a weekend, and manged to file a formal complaint against the owner of MRVS (Tom Dolphin) for an ethics violation. Tom was contacted on a Sunday and notified he was placed under investigation by the central conference director for this. How unbelievable this political move being made by a DZ that is still to this day not even a group member DZ and has been paying Ed Scott to represent them to MO DOT (MO Dept. of Transpo). I think the ethics violation here has to do more with the Eriksmones business practices in promoting their DZ, something that has been brought up here before in these forums.

Just thought I would enter in this factual info I observed firsthand that weekend.

[Freeflysmiley 2]

Looks like u may of been a bit hasty!!!

--------------------------------------------------
Practise the 6 P's!
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[BaumsAway 0]

So, the investigation that fireballgrl referred to is against MRVS? That makes a little more sense. I was wondering how there could be an investigation against KCSC if it was MRVS that took the tandems up after they had been drinking. Was it KCSC or Skydive KC that opened the investigation on MRVS for this violation?

[mark 107]

Quote

I was wondering how there could be an investigation against KCSC if it was MRVS that took the tandems up after they had been drinking.

As far as I know, it is an FAR violation to allow intoxicated persons to fly. But drinking a beer is not the same as being intoxicated, is it?

I am in favor of the traditional ban on alcohol before skydiving, but can someone please explain why it would be illegal if the passenger were not intoxicated?

Mark

[bch7773 0]

what was the ethics violation for?

taking up intoxicated tandems or slander or what?

MB 3528, RB 1182

[jurgencamps 0]

Quote

I am in favor of the traditional ban on alcohol before skydiving, but can someone please explain

why it would be illegal if the passenger were not intoxicated?

Mark

illegal if the passenger were not intoxicated?

Jurgen

[jrsides 0]

I finally found all of the information on this subject from the City of Harrisonville website. The minutes of these meetings are publicly posted. I think we should look at these minutes from an unbiased source, not ranting and raving skydivers.

CITY OF HARRISONVILLE
BOARD OF ALDERMEN
REGULAR MEETING
MINUTES
FEBRUARY 6, 2006
7:00 P.M.

http://ci.harrisonville.mo.us/pdfs/2006_minutes/020606%20Minutes.pdf

ITEM NO. 9 - COUNCIL BILL NO. 005: A RESOLUTION TO
AUTHORIZE THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR TO ENTER INTO AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF HARRISONVILLE,
MISSOURI, AND KANSAS CITY SKYDIVING CENTER, LLC. FOR
LEASE OF CERTAIN PORTIONS OF A TERMINAL BUILDING
LOCATED AT THE LAWRENCE SMITH MEMORIAL AIRPORT
- Attorney Tracy Peterson read Council Bill 005 by title only.
City Administrator Dianna Wright explained that the Kansas City Skydiving
Center desired to lease office space in the upstairs of a hanger at the
Lawrence Smith Memorial Airport. She then introduced Airport Manager
James Green. Ms. Wright further explained that this had been an ongoing
issue and had been before the Airport Committee. That Committee had
directed staff to conduct research regarding the issue.
The owners, Paul and Joanna Eriksmoen, desire to establish the skydiving
school and offer tandem skydiving, continuing education and licensed
skydiving.
There was discussion concerning LifeFlight Eagle opposing such an
operation at the airport to which several of the aldermen expressed their
concern that they did not want to jeopardize the LifeFlight Eagle operation
in any way.
Mr. Eriksmoen indicated that it took LifeFlight Eagle five to eight minutes
from the time the call came in until they took off the ground. He explained
that they did not want to interfere at all with LifeFlight Eagle but if they
were on the same radio frequency, the skydiving aircraft would know when
LifeFlight got a call and be able to abort the skydiving mission or if the
divers were already out of the plan, they would have time to land before the
helicopter took off.
LifeFlight had written a letter indicating a 3,000-foot separation between
helicopters and skydiving operations was recommended by other helicopter
emergency medical service providers who work in the same area as
skydiving centers.
There was discussion regarding a former skydiving school at the airport and
the death of a skydiver in 1995.
Ms. Wright reported that the Kansas City Skydiving Center was now
purchasing private land for the drop zone and they now only wanted to lease
office space in a hanger. This would not affect the LifeFlight lease of
hanger space.
Aldermen Howell, Minich and Roberts indicated they would like additional
information. They wanted more time to learn more about the proposal and
operations of the school. A work session was requested.
The Board requested Ms. Wright to attempt to find unbiased experts to speak
to the Board on this subject and to schedule a work session for further
discussions.

CITY OF HARRISONVILLE
BOARD OF ALDERMEN
REGULAR MEETING
MINUTES
FEBRUARY 21, 2006
7:00 P.M.

http://ci.harrisonville.mo.us/pdfs/2006_minutes/022106%20Minutes.pdf
ITEM NO. 13a - DISCUSSION OF THE PROPOSED Kansas City
SKYDIVING CENTER, LLC AT THE LAWRENCE SMITH
MEMORIAL AIRPORT – Mayor Wood asked those in the audience who
were not in attendance for the skydiving issue, to please give their seats to
those waiting in the hallway for the skydiving issue.
City Administrator Dianna Wright explained the KC Skydiving School is
requesting to lease hanger space from the City to locate their office. The
drop-zone is now being proposed off-site on private property.
She further explained the controversy surrounding the school includes the
safe operation of the airport, Life Flight operations, concerns of adjacent
property owners, operations of the proposed skydiving school, city liability
and the proposed lease agreement with KC Skydiving School. A copy of
Ms. Wright’s memo and its attachments are attached and made a part of
these minutes.
Ms. Wright further explained that even with the drop-zone being proposed
on private property the City continues to be concerned about the safety of
the operations of the airport with skydivers in the airport traffic pattern.
Staff has asked the FAA for an interpretation of the compliance handbook
regarding a request to establish a drop-zone “within the boundaries of an
airport” and is this airspace considered a part of the ‘boundaries of an
airport’? As of the date of the meeting, the FAA has not made a
determination. She also explained Airport Manager James Green reported
he was concerned about skydivers in the traffic pattern but the traffic pattern
could be moved to one side
Mr. Chuck Walker, Director of Program Operations for Life Flight
addressed the Board. Mr. Walker reported the skydiving school would pose
safety concerns but they would work proactively with the drop-zone
operator to establish communication procedures to best coordinate the
activities of both operations.
Upon questioning, Mr. Walker reported that the operation of Life Flight is
dedicated to serving the community and they have no short term plans for
relocating. Alderman Minich asked about the rumor that Life Flight was
looking into moving to the Clinton area. Mr. Walker responded that they do
have a lot of calls from the Clinton area as well as the Sedalia, Lamont and
Warrensburg areas and they are looking into the possibility of adding
another aircraft rather than move. He further commented that the skydiving
school applicants are very accommodating and their business plan is within
the requirements of the FAA and he would suggest moving forward with
them contractually. Life Flight would not start their aircraft while divers
are in the air for safety reasons. The drop-zone is closer than they would
prefer but operations would continue.
Upon questioning from Alderman Linthicum, there was discussion
regarding the leasing of the hanger space and how that would affect the
operations of Life Flight. Mr. Walker suggested the City enforce whatever
restrictions are stipulated in the contractual agreement and speculated there
would be more foot traffic. Also, the busier the airport became, the foot
traffic would become busier but it shouldn’t interfere with Life Flight’s
operations.
Mayor Wood questioned the length of time involved in responding to calls
and how that might affect response time. Mr. Walker responded that could
take approximately five minutes from the time the call came in and they
started the aircraft.
Alderman Howell asked about Life Flight adding an aircraft and where they
might locate it to which Mr. Walker indicated they did not want to reveal
their plans but it would be to the east.
Alderman Walters commented that whether true or not, if Life Flight did
move, the public perception would be that it was because of the proposed
skydiving school. If the school becomes a reality, would this be detrimental
in their decision to stay or leave? Mr. Walker responded that it would affect
their daily operations to some degree but it would not be detrimental to their
decision to stay or leave.
Alderman Burdick asked if additional communication would help to which
Mr. Walker indicated yes, they would be in radio contact however, the
radios might interfere with rest time.
Mayor Wood asked Mr. Walker’s opinion of a best-case scenario. Mr.
Walker responded that he would suggest the City sign the lease with
perimeters in the lease that were enforceable.
Alderman Howell commented that the adjacent property owners had
concerns and wondered why the applicants couldn’t purchase land farther
away. Mr. Walker responded that would give Life Flight a better comfort
zone but they would still not start the aircraft with divers in the air.
Alderman Roberts commented that he had concerns regarding observers and
how that might impact operations and the City’s liability.
Ed Scott, Director of Government Relations from the United States
Parachute Association (USPA) addressed the Board. Mr. Scott reported that
he assisted in establishing skydiving centers. He commended Ms. Wright
and Mr. Green for providing good information and indicated that it was not
an easy task.
Mr. Scott indicated there were two major issues at hand. The first is the
compatibility of an airport helicopter with skydiving. Most skydiving
facilities are on or adjacent to airports and the airports continue their
operations and many use radios for communicating. Parachuters descend in
traffic patterns and aircraft take off and land while the parachuters continue
to descent. They are visible and can be seen to avoid. Also, traffic patterns
can be moved to one side and that may optimize the separation.The second issue is safety. There may be a full range of safety issues
involved. One is the opening of the chute and there can be automatic
activation devises on chutes. Steps can be taken to monitor and regulate
operations.
The City can require certain steps to be taken also in the lease agreement.
Some of these steps might include: 1) be a member of the United States
Parachute Association (USPA) and to be in compliance with their
guidelines. The applicant is willing to do this; 2) have an active operational
drop-zone manual; and 3) have a self-inspection program and check what
items the City desires to address such as verify credentials, member of
USPA, etc.
Further Mr. Scott reviewed why the City might want a skydiving school in
their city. He indicated 1) it would bring in out-of-town visitors; 2) there
would be need for lodging, food, gas, etc.; 3) the airport would become
known and this would be good for a small non-busy airport; and 4) the
activity is good for the local youth.
Mayor Wood asked if he had seen the airport and did Mr. Scott think it
would or would not be a good location for a skydiving school. Mr. Scott
responded that it was not an active facility and there is not a lot of aircraft;
therefore it would be a perfect airport of such a business.
Alderman Minich commented that Mr. Scott was invited to the meeting by
the applicants and were they members of USPA. Mr. Scott responded that
they were.
Alderman Minich further voiced concern about the adjacent property
owners and what was the percentage of times skydivers might land off
course and on neighbors’ properties.
Mr. Scott indicated that GPS helps the pilot in fixing the jump location so
there is a minimum of off field landings. It is rare but will happen. The
operators would then take steps to find out why it happened and what steps
to take to prevent future off field landings.
Upon further questioning, Mr. Scott said he couldn’t predict how often this
could happen as there are no statistics.
Alderman Roberts questioned how the business could be evaluated with no
statistics in place and if found to be in non-compliance what could be done.
Mr. Scott indicated that membership in USPA could be suspended and that
with few schools and sites for jumping, this could have a great impact on
the business.
Discussion continued regarding requirements the City could impose in the
lease agreement as well as certain insurance requirements.
Alderman Walters asked if there were any statistics for air ambulances and
skydiving at the same airport. Mr. Scott responded that some research had
been done and he had not heard of any problems and no complaints.There was then discussion regarding the City’s liability. City Attorney
Steve Mauer commented that by entering into a lease agreement, there is no
additional liability to the City. If the City does not enter into a lease
agreement, KC Skydiving Center could still use the airport for take off and
landings in connection with their business. A lease may put the City in a
better position as they can have more control by putting in stipulations and
restrictions in the lease agreement. Ms. Wright commented that any
restrictions the Board desired could be incorporated in the agreement.
Alderman Roberts expressed concern about whether this business would
require more staff time and extra duties. Mr. Mauer commented that it
would not be any different whether there is a lease agreement or not.
Alderman Linthicum commented that the lease agreement needed to be
changed.
Ms. Wright commented the fuel truck would be parked on the site in a safe
location but would have no impact on the airport operations.
Alderman Walters indicated she believes that a vote for the agreement
would be seen as giving the business her blessing and she did not want to
have this perception.
Alderman Check commented that there were letters opposing this issue
being distributed all over town, unsigned. They were on cars in parking
lots, churches and even on cars at a funeral where she had to pick up the
litter made from these letters flying off the cars. She expressed her
displeasure of this type of tactic.
Mayor Wood invited the applicants, Paul and Joanna Eriksmoen to address
the Board regarding the issues that have been raised.
Mr. Eriksmoen indicated that he agreed with Mr. Scott’s suggestions and
planned to take those steps anyway.
Alderman Roberts asked if they had a plan to fall back on if the County did
not approve the re-zoning request to which Ms. Wright commented that the
County would not rezone but it might be considered for a Special Use
Permit. Mr. Eriksmoen responded that he didn’t know.
Alderman Howell asked why they didn’t buy property farther south. Mr.
Eriksmoen said the proposed drop-zone exceeds clearance requirements so
there was no need to attempt to purchase land farther away. He said he did
not know where the 3,000 foot separation came from.
ITEM NO. 13b. - PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE PROPOSED
KANSAS CITY SKYDIVING CENTER, LLC -
Mayor Wood emphasized that the City was not deciding if skydivers could
come to Harrisonville or not but were only deciding whether or not to lease
hanger space to the KC Skydiving School. Mayor Wood then invited
anyone in the audience to speak with a 4-minute time limit on why or why
not to lease the space to the skydiving school.
Don Zarda addressed the Board. He identified himself as a professional
skydiver and skydiver instructor in Lexington and had traveled extensively
in his line of work. He commented that it is best to have a business such as
this at a privately owned airport. This airport is too small and the drop-zone
is too close with the prevailing winds. Also, a maximum of seventeen
jumpers poses increased risks. He suggested more information be gathered
before making a decision. Mayor Wood again explained that the only issue
the City would decide upon is the option to lease to the skydiving school
office space in a hanger.
Alderman Check asked why a person from another location several miles
away is so concerned about this issue. Mr. Zarda said he worked in
Lexington. He further stated that the City is not required to lease property
because of the federal funding they received for the airport. He further
commented that he did not want to see any more accidents from a bad dropzone.
Nick Wheeler from Peculiar addressed the Board stating he had rented
space at the airport for the last fifteen years. He indicated that all aircraft
exit the hangers with the propellers running and with the increase foot
traffic as well as jumpers in the air who could miss the drop-zone; it would
pose further safety concerns. He indicated he had a personal experience of a
jumper landing at the edge of the runway and he had to take other measures
to avoid an accident. He indicated there was not enough room for both
jumpers and aircraft taking off and landing.
Mayor Wood reported that certain criteria could be stipulated in the lease
agreement to reduce the risks. There was discussion regarding the airspace
to which Ms. Wright commented that the City had not heard back from the
FAA yet on this definition however, the traffic pattern could be moved.
Airport Manager James Green spoke indicating he had talked with the
Central Region of MoDot and several other agencies at the state and federal
level asking about the airspace and the airport boundaries. As of this date,
he had not received a response.
John Balthis addressed the Board stating he had rented hanger space at the
airport for the last 15 to 16 years. During the 1990’s he said he saw some
bad things happen. There was a disregard for the rules; saw someone come
close to getting hit by propellers as an aircraft was coming out of a hanger,
etc. He commented that the City would be liable if someone were killed
and wondered why the pilots renting from the airport had not been told of
the proposed skydiving school. He indicated he would not rent from the
airport if the school came. He further indicated that many pilots wouldn’t
fly on the weekends in the 1990’s because of the skydivers in the air. He believes the airport will dry up if skydivers are allowed.
Mayor Wood asked Mr. Green if the Airport meetings were posted at the
airport to which Mr. Green responded they were.
There was discussion regarding the need to have the office and the public
restrooms open for use by the public.
Steve Schonfeldt from Overland Park, Kansas addressed the Board. He
indicated he was skydiver of six years. He said this was a new vision and it
should be a successful drop-zone. He expressed his opinion that the
skydiving school, private properties owners and the city would be very good
neighbors and the applicants would do everything they could to cooperate.
Greg Rogers of Cass County addressed the Board. He indicated that when
flying, the pilot cannot see above in the plane and not all pilots use a radio
so they won’t have any way of knowing if there are jumpers in the air. He
indicated that if the City leased the hanger space, he would not be coming
back to use the airport because of the danger.
At this point, the Mayor declared a 10-minute break at 9:10 p.m.
At 9:20 p.m. Mayor Wood reconvened the meeting.
Alderman Minich noted that at this point there was nothing to vote on
because the Board wants various stipulations written in the lease agreement.
Alderman Roberts questioned the time element involved which it was noted
that in reality, the applicants didn’t need the lease to start jumping.
Ms. Wright asked the Board to give her direction as to whether or not the
Board desired to consider a lease agreement with the KC Skydiving School.
If not, fine however, if they did desire a lease, the Board would have more
control of the business and they could write certain stipulations into the
agreement.
Alderman Howell questioned Mr. Walker if he thought this could be worked
out to which Mr. Walker indicated whatever stipulations the Board desired
could be written into the lease agreement. He commented that even Life
Flight said it could be worked out.
Mayor Wood questioned the airspace and could the City stop the divers
from using the airport airspace. There was then discussion concerning the
traffic pattern and how that pattern could be changed to allow for greater
distance for safety purposes.
Alderman Minich questioned the third party insurance to which City
Attorney explained that it was no different from any other insurance the
airport now carries but the City could stipulate more in their lease
agreement.
Alderman Minich asked how high a diver would need to be in order to come
across the landing strip in the traffic pattern in order to hit the intended drop
zone. This was with the prevailing winds from the southwest. Mr. Scott
estimated the diver would be 1500 to 2000 feet above the runway.
Mayor Wood asked the Board for direction.
Alderman Minich indicated he did not want this particular lease.
Mary Albright from Pleasant Hill addressed the Board expressing her
opposition to the skydiving school.
Allen Strausbaugh addressed the Board saying it would be a disgrace to lose
Life Flight over this.
Mayor Wood re-emphasized that the City cannot stop the skydivers from
using the airport. The only issue at hand is whether or not to lease them
hanger space and with a lease, the City could stipulate certain regulations
for the skydivers to follow and make sure they are good neighbors to Life
Flight. Also, he reminded that if there is a lease, the $1M insurance could
be a stipulation. With no lease, there would be no insurance required from
the applicant.
Chris Hall addressed the Board indicating he lived in Lee’s Summit and was
a skydiver for 16 years with 9 of those years operating a skydiving school at
the Butler airport. He indicated his interest in this is the safety issue. He
reported that when there was skydiving at this airport in the past, he had
made 1000 jumps but during that time there was not the growth then as
there is now also, there were not 17 divers jumping from a plane. Also, he
said he had checked with the County Recorder and the intended property the
applications are purchasing has not been sold to them yet.
Mr. Hall indicated that MoDot had inspected the airport and determined it
was not safe for skydiving.
Alderman Check asked Mr. Hall why he was so concerned about skydiving
in Harrisonville. He responded it was for safety reasons.
Alderman Minich asked how often the intended drop-zone target is missed.
Mr. Hall estimated perhaps 20% of the time.
Mayor Wood asked how close his drop-zone was to the runway to which
Mr. Hall estimated 500 feet.
Tom Dolphin, Manager of the Lexington Airport addressed the Board and
agreed with the Mayor, that the skydiving cannot be stopped at the airport
but he added, the business could be stopped. There was discussion as to
how the applicants could get $1M in insurance when it was reported from
others experienced in this field that insurance cannot be gotten. Mr. Scott
responded that perhaps they would get it from Lloyds of London.
Alderman Check asked about Mr. Dolphin’s insurance and he indicated he
purchased the airport because he couldn’t get any insurance. He does not
carry any insurance.
Mr. Dana Severalli addressed the Board. He explained that he was the
owner of the former skydiving school that was housed at the airport 11
years ago. He said he was forced out of the business because the Board at
the time forced him to have $1M in insurance and it could not be gotten.
Mayor Wood asked the Eriksmoen about the $1M insurance and Mr.
Eriksmoen said they would comply with whatever is in the lease agreement
and they can get the insurance.
Alderman Check asked if there were no lease then no insurance to which
Mayor Wood responded, yes, that was right.
Alderman Stewart commented that he had heard that MoDot would not
approve the arrangement to which Mr. Green replied he had not heard that
before.
Alderman Roberts made a motion to delay the bill to which discussion
continued and there was no second.
Mr. Eriksmoen said if the agreement was delayed, they would have to start
building in Cass County and won’t come back to Harrisonville. There
would be a loss of revenue for the City.
Mayor Wood responded they would still have to go through the County’s
Planning and Zoning and that would take at least thirty days.
Ms. Eriksmoen asked the Board to please ask Mr. Scott any questions they
desired tonight so that he would not have to be flown back for the next
meeting.
Alderman Walters asked Mr. Eriksmoen if they had purchased land to
which Mr. Eriksmoen said they had it under contract to purchase with no
contingency.

ITEM NO. 13c. - COUNCIL BILL NO. 005: A RESOLUTION TO
AUTHORIZE THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR TO ENTER INTO AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF HARRISONVILLE,
MISSOURI, AND KANSAS CITY SKYDIVING CENTER, LLC. FOR
LEASE OF CERTAIN PORTIONS OF A TERMINAL BUILDING
LOCATED AT THE LAWRENCE SMITH MEMORIAL AIRPORT -
At the Mayor’s prompting, Alderman Check moved to look into a lease with
the stipulations and regulations that had been brought up earlier in the
meeting. The motion was seconded by Alderman Burdick. The Mayor
asked for a voice vote to which it was indicated that all did not vote.
Therefore the Mayor asked for a roll call vote which passed as follows with
the Mayor breaking the tie:
Ayes: Aldermen Stewart, Check, Burdick, Linthicum and Mayor Wood
Nays: Aldermen Walters, Roberts, Howell and Minich
Ms. Wright commented that staff would work on an appropriate lease
agreement.

CITY OF HARRISONVILLE
BOARD OF ALDERMEN
REGULAR MEETING
MINUTES
MARCH 6, 2006
7:00 P.M.

http://ci.harrisonville.mo.us/pdfs/2006_minutes/030606%20Minutes.pdf

ITEM 7. - COUNCIL BILL NO. 005: A RESOLUTION TO
AUTHORIZE THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR TO ENTER INTO AN
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF HARRISONVILLE,
MISSOURI, AND KANSAS CITY SKYDIVING CENTER, LLC, FOR
LEASE OF CERTAIN PORTIONS OF A TERMINAL BUILDING
LOCATED AT THE LAWRENCE SMITH MEMORIAL AIRPORT –
City Attorney Steve Mauer read the resolution by title only.
City Administrator Dianna Wright explained staff had made the
amendments to the lease as directed by the Board at the last meeting. Those
amendments are noted in her memo which is attached and made a part of
these minutes. She then introduced Mr. Steve Edwards, Claims Manager
from Cretcher-Lynch Insurance Company who was in attendance to explain
the insurance issue and answer any questions. It was noted that the
Eriksmoen’s were not able to obtain the requested $1M third party
insurance but they would carry $50,000 third party insurance through the
United States Parachute Association.
Paul and Joanna Eriksmoen then addressed the Board. Ms. Eriksmoen
thanked the Board and staff for their patience and asked that the Board
decide favorably for the lease of the space for the betterment of the
community. She explained that all the Board’s concerns were addressed in
the revised lease agreement and they would be responsible for any and all
crowd control equipment needed such as fencing, etc. They will also
provide radios to the Life Flight crews for communications with their pilots
in the air. However, she then informed the Board that their request for $1M
of third party insurance was not available to be purchased but she reported
that it wasn’t necessary. She further explained that none is required of any
other airport in the country. They plan to open the skydiving school April 1,
2006 with or without a lease from the City. Also, she noted they have
complied with every request made of them from the Board except the
above-mentioned insurance and they would comply with that but it was not
available.
Alderman Minich asked if they had worked out what was needed from the
county for them to build a building on the parcel of land they were
purchasing for the drop-zone. Mr. Eriksmoen responded no, they would use
the facilities at the airport as it was designed for aeronautical use, which
skydivers fit into that category.
There was then a lengthy discussion concerning how the $50,000 third party
insurance would be used and several examples were given for illustration
purposes and edification of the Board.
Alderman Walters asked if someone were killed by a skydiver, would there
only be $50,000 coverage to which Mr. Eriksmoen responded in the
affirmative.
Discussion continued and the issue of how $50,000 would not be sufficient
for damage of a large vehicle. Mr. Eriksmoen stated that there had never
been a claim near $1M. Mayor Wood gave the example of how the $50,000
might cover damages to a vehicle but it would be unlikely it would cover if
a plane were damaged. There was discussion regarding an accident in
Independence a few years ago which resulted in a $6M judgment. Mr.
Eriksmoen explained this was a plane crash that took off from the
Independence airport and crashed near the Grain Valley airport.
Alderman Linthicum asked if the lease was approved as it currently stands
including the requirement of $1M, would the Eriksmoen’s then be in
violation if they continued to operate the skydiving school without the
insurance.
City Attorney Mauer responded that the lease agreement would need to be
amended. The Board could either amend the lease at the meeting by a
motion, second and vote or direct staff to amend it and then bring it back at
the next meeting.
Discussion continued regarding the availability of $50,000 insurance vs. the
non-availability of $1M of insurance. It was suggested that the $1M is not
available because of the high risk activity. Ms. Wright reported that the
applicants could get more than the $50,000 insurance coverage for the
premises. It was also noted that the skydivers have to sign a waiver before
they are permitted to jump.
Alderman Howell questioned why some professions such as utility
employees could obtain as much as $1M insurance or more to which Mr.
Edwards, from Cretcher-Lynch Insurance Company speculated that it might
be because there were more utility employees than skydivers.
Mayor Wood explained there could be $1M insurance on the premises but
not on the third party insurance. Life Flight is covered by on the premises
insurance of at least $1M.
Alderman Walters asked if the City did not approve the lease would there be
insurance policies to which Mr. Eriksmoen responded that it would be
highly considered by not required.
Alderman Walters asked what the benefit would be to the City. Mr.
Edwards responded that the City would have control over the business with
a lease in place whereas without a lease the City would not have any
control. Ms. Wright also responded that it would give the City protection.
Mr. Edwards also noted that with a lease, there would be no additional risk
to the City.
Alderman Walters expressed her concern that if the lease were approved,
the public perception would be that the City wanted this business.
Mr. Mauer commented that with a lease at least the City would know there
was $50,000 of insurance whereas without the lease, there was no guarantee
of any insurance.
Alderman Roberts commented that it only made sense that any business
would carry insurance for their own protection. Alderman Check stated that
the comments from the Lexington drop-zone operator at the last meeting
indicated he operated without insurance.
Mayor Wood asked the Board for direction regarding the insurance issue in
the lease agreement.
Alderman Howell commented that in January the Board had a development
issue before it that failed because the Board felt uncomfortable with the
issue. He noted that he felt uncomfortable with this issue as well.
Alderman Minich agreed with Alderman Howell and noted that the lease
agreement should cover all provisions but was not sure if all possible
provisions had been covered. He wanted to feel comfortable with the lease
agreement before passage.
Mayor Wood commented that the insurance issue had not changed and
again asked the Board for their direction regarding the insurance in the
lease, whether to amend on the floor or to direct staff to take back and revise
and then bring the lease back to the Board at a later meeting.
Alderman Howell asked if it could be amended on the floor and how. Mr.
Mauer responded that Section 7.3(A) would need to be amended by deleting
the following words: “including, but not limited to all parties and
participants of the Tenant’s business operations,”
There was further discussion concerning the insurance aspects of the lease
and the ramifications of the applicant’s not carrying the requested $1M and
only $50,000 of third party liability insurance.
If $1M of General Liability insurance was not available, Alderman Howell
asked where this requirement came from to which Ms. Wright explained this
is required of Life Flight but because these are two different types of
businesses, it was found that the $1M insurance is not available for
skydivers. Mr. James Green has been in contact with other airports that have
drop zones and found they do not require this type of insurance.
Mayor Wood indicated he would entertain a motion from the Board to
amend the contract regarding the insurance.
Alderman Linthicum moved to amend the lease agreement by deleting the
following words from 7.3(A): “including, but not limited to all parties and
participants of the Tenant’s business operation,”. The motion was seconded
by Alderman Stewart and failed by a roll call vote as follows with the Mayor
breaking the tie:
Ayes: Alderman Stewart, Check, Burdick and Linthicum
Nays: Alderman Walters, Minich, Howell, Roberts and Mayor Wood
Absent: None
Abstain: None
The motion to amend failed.

[PROSpark 0]

I spoke with a friend of the 9 tandem students last weekend & was told that his buddies were offered alcohol & that most everyone was drinking , including the manifest lady. re: DZO

[chutejump 0]

JR, Thanks! It is about time for some factual posting on this subject. Now the MRVS side of the story!
A few weeks ago on a Saturday we received a call from a group, early in the afternoon that were requesting tandem jumps, "That day" we were booked, but I ask the staff what they thought? Their reply was if they didn't require Video they would take on the extra work.
After they arrived and did all of the usual paperwork, orientation to the area ETC, I said that they would need to view the video, so we could train them in preparation for their jump. They stated that they had been at another location all day prior, and had received training and were waiting to do their tandems but the aircraft had broken, or was running poorly and blowing oil out on the aircraft. they did not have a good feeling about the A/C problem and elected to try another location, they stated that they had called us prior but had chosen another location, because it was closer, and that the wed site of the prior DZ had lead them to believe that this was a full on center with a large staff, aminities, and turbine aircraft, but when they arrived they found a tent, picnic table, used RV and a small building that was on a trailer that looked like an outhouse.
They were pleased with what they viewed at our location and said they wished they had driven the extra distance in the first place.
We started to go over their responsibilities to do this jump and referred to the training video, they stated that they were not offered a training video, and that the training consisted of a fat lady standing on a chair demonstrating an arch and than had them preform an arch on some type of bench, then they were told that they were ready to jump.
We completed the required training, and told them to make themselves comfortable and watch the jumpers as we would page them when it was their turn to jump.
A few minutes later as I crossed the ramp to the landing area I noticed several of them in the parking lot opening a fresh beer! I stopped them and informed them it is against DZ rules to drink beer prior to the last lift of the day and that there are FAA rules which disallow consumption of alcohol and participation in aviation activities. They said they had were allowed to drink beer at the previous location, and that the DZO had provided them with cups to use so as to not upset the local persons at the airport.
After speaking with all of them we choose to take 7 of the 9 on jumps, we confrimed that some had not drank and the remainder had a beer or so several hours earlier and were confortable that the drinks would not be an issue. The jumps were uneventful.
I spoke with fireball girl later that afternoon and relayed the story of these tandem students, as she posted here.
On Sunday evening after the days end I was doing the daily paperwork and noticed the regional directors name and number on a note from the manifestor? I phoned to ask if he had called, he said no but he had been making some inquireys, around the area, and said that I, and MRVS was under investigation for ethics violations as requested by the DZO of the location that the tandem students had left the day prior, and that he had received the request that Sunday morning?
Strange? Very Strange?
I reported the tandem student incident to him at that time.
The next day after another conversation and at the request of the regional director I phoned the DZO whom had filed the complaint against me, and spoke with him about the tandem student incident and he assured me that it was not as it seemed and there was no wrong doing on his part, I excepted his explantion of the incident and did not report it to Rig Manufacture, FAA, or any one other than the regional director, whom I believe investigated it on the behalf of uspa.
To my knowledge this investigation against myself and MRVS is ongoing?
Do I believe that the aledged violations investigation will provide any substance? NO!
Did I break rules with the tandem students? NO!
Did I violate any ethics requirements of uspa with information or involvement or statements I made in the meeting minutes provided by JR? NO!
Not unless the "Truth" is unethical?
BUT! there are some members in the alphabet organization whom would prefer that the truth not be spoken! It better suits their purposes if left unsaid, they utilize the mushroom approach to information, "Keep um in the dark, and feed them shit"
As a very good friend whom has friends with big business knowledge pointed out to me, when in business if you provide information that is wrong the oppositions response is to prove it wrong, But! If it is right the oppositions response is to discredit you.
"YOU CHOOSE"

Tom Dolphin

[jrsides 0]

Just so everone knows who I am and how I am involved in this issue.
My name is J.R. Sides and I own and operate Chambersburg Skydiving Center in South Central Pennsylvania. I own and operate several cessnas and a King Air. I lease the 206 to Kansas City Skydiving Center. I have leased this aircraft to other operations prior to its arrival in the KC area. It is a good skydiving aircraft that was owned by Don DuPont in the Mass. area and Mr. Parsons of Boston-Hartford skydiving center in Conn. Mr. Parsons was killed in a hook turn incident in Hawaii several years ago. This aircraft is in great condition and recently had a lexan rollup door installed in it prior to being sent to Michigan for the summer. The FAA came and looked at his plane and crawled all over it. We looked a the logs and and a courtesty inspection was made since it would be operating in their region. The DZO who leased it realized it was a lot of aircraft for his short grass strip and opted to lease one of my 182s for the season. I spoke to Paul about leasing it and made arrangements to bring it to KC and check out his pilot.
Upon arrival to KC we flew it for the entire day and noticed a small blown trail of oil, but it was nothing to worry about. We made plans to have the local mechanic to look it over and become familiar with this aircraft since he will be doing the work on it for the season. Within a couple of weeks we discovered the leak was coming form the oil cooler and stopped flying the aircraft. Paul sent his customers home. Good Call!
Next thing that happens ifs the mechanic begins to get calls from skydivers/instructors at a competing DZ who are asking him about the oil belching from this piece of s*** aircraft that almost killed everyone.
WOW!
The mechanic is a really laid back cool guy who really knows his stuff and is not affected by this and repairs the plane and after a test flight returns it to service. No problem.
A couple of weeks later the plane begins losing power after take off at the most critical time at about 500 feet. The pilot performs flawlessly and returns the plane to the airport and lands it without injury to anyone. The aircraft is not damaged and they call me in the middle of a busy weekend with this problem. we discuss it and realize it is probably a mag issue. The mechanic is called and he comes and looks at the aircraft. There is a cracked spark plug and it is replaced and the problem persists. The mechanic feels it is in the engine and has to get it off the ramp and into a hanger to work on it. The phone calls to me begin from skydivers telling me how they are abusing my plane and I should bring a new engine since they are totally abusing my plane.
A regional director who I admire and respect has been in contact with me as well. He is recieving the reports from these people as well. The airport will not allow the mechanic to work on the plane in the hanger without some sort of delay and negotation and lease. Meanwhile the plane sits, the airport loses money, the DZ loses money, I lose money and people spread s*** about each other all over the internet. The mechanic got in the hanger and discovers a collapsed lifter and damaged rocker arm, nothing out of the ordinary. Parts are ordered and the plane will be repaired and test flown and inspected prior to having jumpers on board again.
I started recieving reports that the DZ has been told to cease operations and that my aircraft is to be impounded. I realize that I need to get information on this situation and in a matter of minutes search the net and arrive at the City of Harrisonville web site. THE TRUTH! (see my previous post)
I have operated a DZ in an area that has many DZs that overlap business areas. I compete with CrossKeys, Orange, DelMarVa, The Skydiving Place, Maytown, and many others. Last week I leased a plane to Orange when they had aircraft problems and did the same when Maytown had a maintence issue that would keep them down for a weekend. When my King Air props were not going to make it back from the prop shop CrossKeys leased me an aircraft for the weekend. Skydive West Point calls and asks for instructors on really busy weekends and so on and so forth.
The point is this, in the 60s blacks moved into neighborhoods that were mostly white and people reacted in a manner that reminds me of the way that some of the people in KC are acting. Everyone has the right to try to try to follow their dream.
I rarely post on dropzone.com because I own a DZ and sometimes so much crap/misinformation is posted here I don't want to be associated with it. I have been the target of several witch hunts myself.
I was out flying and stopped off at Maytown last night and had a discussion with Dave DeWolf about this issue and he informed me of some of his conversations with Tom on this issue. I understand his concerns and in an attempt to probably make sure some fly by night DZ did not pop up in his back yard that might be like the one that had a fatal crash several years before.
I have been to KC Skydiving Center and see how they operate. They are really caring people who are trying to do things right. They began negotiations and started out with a hanger and have been pushed into a field, they have not given up hope. They will make it through the hard times because they really have the dream of skydiving. Will they make mistakes? Sure. Will they learn as they move along the trail of Dz ownership? Sure. I remember when I bought this DZ I didn't know how to order fuel or how to fuel a plane.
I am embarrased for the skydiving community to see the way that everyone has treatecd each other in this matter. I'm sure that there are some really good skydivers who have good hearts out there in KC who wish that they could go somewhere away from any of those parties involved in this issue and skydive without all of the politics.
I don't believe I'll post here again since I have attempted to get just facts and clear the air for all involved and hopefully you can wash yourselves clean of this mess and become friends and skydive again as neighbors who help each other in the true belief that the sky is a great place to free one's self of all of our worldly issues.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Thanks for the info JR and pointing me to this thread.I needed some entertainment this morning.I thought these people would have gotten bored of this crap and gone back to skydiving.Who has not seen an airplane leak oil.I wonder how many of the people posting about alcohol have had a beer before the sunset load?You people need to put down the sticks before you poke yourselfs in the eye.


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