Jersey woman stabbed to death waiting for Gun Permit

[Andy9o8 0]

jgoose71

***....and who emphasize practical alternatives....

The man out weighed her by 100lbs, was a little bit crazy, and had a knife. What would you consider a "practical alternative?"

Semantics aside on whether I chose the best phrase (maybe I didn't?), I've not had military or tactical training, so I'll defer to professional experts in the field such as TriGirl and Winsor. Their posts seem instructive.

[winsor 186]

kelpdiver

And Winsor, perhaps you could help explain to women how they can prevent a lethal confrontation with ex boyfriends and husbands that don't respect restraining orders. Continue to date the loser? Never date in the first place? Live as a shut-in?

You do not seem to be paying attention.

A resourceful, determined assailant who has detailed working knowledge of their quarry poses a serious threat. It can take significant time, effort and resources to neutralize the threat.

Taking a year's assignment in Uruguay (or even Connecticut) makes it tougher for said individual to stalk.

Paying an appropriate service to keep tabs on him can help (GPS transmitter on his car, track his cell phone, etc.).

Arranging to sleep on different people's couches and getting rides in other people's cars makes one harder to track.

Learn some basic tradecraft to identify tails and likely ambush sites.

Spend time with others who are skilled at self-defense. Generally do not go places alone.

Get enough training that you don't shoot the dog or your neighbor out of fear and panic.

Whatever you do, KEEP IT LEGAL! I assure you that this does not matter when the Powers That Be think otherwise, but it is important not to go to the Dark Side.

These are but a few basics, and there are people here that have more, better ideas, but these have worked to deny armed assailants the opportunity to execute an attack.


BSBD,

Winsor

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

no, the argument is that she COULD be alive if she had a gun. But without it, she didn't stand a chance.

She could be alive if she had taken a different route that day.
She could be alive if she had decided to take longer stopping for a coffee.
She could be alive if she had decided to go on vacation that week.
She could be alive if she had decided to move somewhere else.
She could be alive if she had decided to carry pepper spray.

There are many "could have beens". She could have stood a great chance of not getting killed with a myriad of different decisions. Why only focus on the gun, it is just a tool, not some magical instrument.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

Quote

no, the argument is that she COULD be alive if she had a gun. But without it, she didn't stand a chance.

She could be alive if she had taken a different route that day.
She could be alive if she had decided to take longer stopping for a coffee.
She could be alive if she had decided to go on vacation that week.
She could be alive if she had decided to move somewhere else.
She could be alive if she had decided to carry pepper spray.

There are many "could have beens". She could have stood a great chance of not getting killed with a myriad of different decisions. Why only focus on the gun, it is just a tool, not some magical instrument.

You hold Harry's wand, and I'll hold my g17, then we'll have a wizards duel.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

winsor

You do not seem to be paying attention.

Actually, it is you who is not.

I'm saying it's ridiculous to frame this as a situation where she should have done more to avoid the outcome. Why the fuck is the onus on her to move to fucking Uruguay for a year?

Skydekker is under the delusion that this was a random event, and her merely coming home 10 minutes later would have meant she'd be fine. This could be true of a mugger looking for a score, but absolutely wrong for a jilted lover who knows where she lives and works.

None of these ninja suggestions are as effective as her having an equalizing force. And her getting the gun doesn't preclude her for doing some of those as well - to my knowledge, no evidence has been provided to support this narative of 'stupid gun crazy bitch.' It's as popular as the argument that if the gun doesn't 100% guarantee success, that it's not worthwhile.

[winsor 186]

kelpdiver

***
You do not seem to be paying attention.

Actually, it is you who is not.

I'm saying it's ridiculous to frame this as a situation where she should have done more to avoid the outcome. Why the fuck is the onus on her to move to fucking Uruguay for a year?

Skydekker is under the delusion that this was a random event, and her merely coming home 10 minutes later would have meant she'd be fine. This could be true of a mugger looking for a score, but absolutely wrong for a jilted lover who knows where she lives and works.

None of these ninja suggestions are as effective as her having an equalizing force. And her getting the gun doesn't preclude her for doing some of those as well - to my knowledge, no evidence has been provided to support this narative of 'stupid gun crazy bitch.' It's as popular as the argument that if the gun doesn't 100% guarantee success, that it's not worthwhile.

Let me walk you through this.

Using the analogy of other safety equipment, I heartily approve of emergency parachutes, AADs, PFDs and the like.

Having said that, it only a moron, or the operational equivalent, who conducts themselves in a manner where the use of said equipment is likely.

If your aircraft is compromised to the extent that using the pilot's rig is indicated, your likelihood of emerging unscathed is less than certain.

If your boat ceases to be on the upper surface of the water, your emergency equipment may not be sufficient to keep you among the living.

AAD activation does not mean you are going to walk away saying "wow! That was close!."

"A sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you you have been in a firefight." Anon

Two of the Laws of Combat are A) know when to get out of Dodge, and B) know HOW to get out of Dodge.

When the potential for combat exists, the onus is on you to survive. The most effective way to survive is to be out of range until the threat can be neutralized.

Your last paragraph is 100% straw man. I have no idea who you are addressing there, but, again, if you think you are responding to anything I said, you are not paying attention.

It is fine for her to be armed and competent, but she should be in a venue where that is not a liability - New Jersey favors criminals.


BSBD,

Winsor

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Don't say this often, but I completely agree with Winsor.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

Don't say this often, but I completely agree with Winsor.

So why didn't the government that is there to protect her, not train her properly?

The least they. Old have done, is say, look, we know you may be in danger, we know we won't issue you the protection you require, and are asking for, but here are some tips that will help.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,623]

turtlespeed

***Don't say this often, but I completely agree with Winsor.

So why didn't the government that is there to protect her, not train her properly?



Can't afford it after the Bush tax cuts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

******Don't say this often, but I completely agree with Winsor.

So why didn't the government that is there to protect her, not train her properly?



Can't afford it after the Bush tax cuts.

Then they should have used the money for the cash for clunkers.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

So why didn't the government that is there to protect her, not train her properly?

Why didn't she take responsibility for her own situation? I would start with not fucking psychopaths with murderous tendencies.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility?

She made the wrong decision in her personal life.

[Driver1 0]

SkyDekker

Quote

So why didn't the government that is there to protect her, not train her properly?

Why didn't she take responsibility for her own situation? I would start with not fucking psychopaths with murderous tendencies.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility?

She made the wrong decision in her personal life.

Dude, you can't always tell which guy is a psychopath right off the bat. Some hide it well. Some don't show their tendencies until much later. It's a crapshoot sometimes.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

Quote

So why didn't the government that is there to protect her, not train her properly?

Why didn't she take responsibility for her own situation? I would start with not fucking psychopaths with murderous tendencies.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility?

She made the wrong decision in her personal life.

Or, she applied for a weapon, and was told that she couldn't protect herself the way she felt she needed to, because of a government regulation. It was the waiting period supporters that made the wrong decisions.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,121]

So when are people supposed to take responsibility for their own actions?

I mean, when people say how statistics show that black people have a much harder time succeeding. Often teh argument is that maybe they should take responsibility for their own actions and work harder.

When I would say that a male visible minority born today has a disproportionately higher chance of ending up in prison. The counter would be that maybe if they would get rid if their victim mentality, things would be better.

But in this case it is hard to deal with a crappy hand and the fact she couldn't get a gun fast enough is to be blamed. Not any of the personal choices she made along the lines, cause...well you never know.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Or, she applied for a weapon, and was told that she couldn't protect herself the way she felt she needed to, because of a government regulation. It was the waiting period supporters that made the wrong decisions.

Exactly, when it is a subject you are a supporter of, it is everybody elses fault. In all other cases you are a strong supporter of taking responsibility for your own actions.

[Andy9o8 0]

Driver1

***

Quote

So why didn't the government that is there to protect her, not train her properly?

Why didn't she take responsibility for her own situation? I would start with not fucking psychopaths with murderous tendencies.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility?

She made the wrong decision in her personal life.

Dude, you can't always tell which guy is a psychopath right off the bat. Some hide it well. Some don't show their tendencies until much later. It's a crapshoot sometimes.

But those aren't the goalposts here. In this case, it was her ex-boyfriend, against whom she'd taken out a restraining order, presumably because she was very well aware he was a psychopath.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

Quote

Or, she applied for a weapon, and was told that she couldn't protect herself the way she felt she needed to, because of a government regulation. It was the waiting period supporters that made the wrong decisions.

Exactly, when it is a subject you are a supporter of, it is everybody elses fault. In all other cases you are a strong supporter of taking responsibility for your own actions.

Yes, I am, in fact, just as big a hypocrite as you are.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,395]

>You know, one could reasonably deduce that if she'd been able to get her gun in time,
>she would have had the opportunity to defend herself.

True. Of course she could have just as easily had this happen to her:

========================
Police: Woman allegedly kills herself with gun bought to prepare for Ferguson unrest

Evan Perez
CNN

Updated 8:57 AM ET, Mon November 24, 2014

A woman appears to have accidentally fatally shot herself in the head with a gun bought to prepare for possible Ferguson-related unrest, according to sources briefed on the police investigation.

The shooting occurred Friday night in downtown St. Louis, the city's Metropolitan Police Department said, in an area dominated by vacant lots beside a football stadium.
=========================

In which case keeping the gun from her could have saved her life.

[Anvilbrother 0]

And how would a waiting period have stopped this? Correlation problems.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[piisfish 135]

billvon

========================
Police: Woman allegedly kills herself with gun bought to prepare for Ferguson unrest

Evan Perez
CNN

Updated 8:57 AM ET, Mon November 24, 2014

A woman appears to have accidentally fatally shot herself in the head with a gun bought to prepare for possible Ferguson-related unrest, according to sources briefed on the police investigation.

The shooting occurred Friday night in downtown St. Louis, the city's Metropolitan Police Department said, in an area dominated by vacant lots beside a football stadium.
=========================

In which case keeping the gun from her could have saved her life.

well at least it keeps her from making the same mistake twice.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>You know, one could reasonably deduce that if she'd been able to get her gun in time,
>she would have had the opportunity to defend herself.

True. Of course she could have just as easily had this happen to her:

========================
Police: Woman allegedly kills herself with gun bought to prepare for Ferguson unrest

Evan Perez
CNN

Updated 8:57 AM ET, Mon November 24, 2014

A woman appears to have accidentally fatally shot herself in the head with a gun bought to prepare for possible Ferguson-related unrest, according to sources briefed on the police investigation.

The shooting occurred Friday night in downtown St. Louis, the city's Metropolitan Police Department said, in an area dominated by vacant lots beside a football stadium.
=========================

In which case keeping the gun from her could have saved her life.

I don't believe " just as easily" is the correct phrasing here. No one knows how easy it was, there might have been an incredible amount of stupid at work here.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,623]

turtlespeed

***>You know, one could reasonably deduce that if she'd been able to get her gun in time,
>she would have had the opportunity to defend herself.

True. Of course she could have just as easily had this happen to her:

========================
Police: Woman allegedly kills herself with gun bought to prepare for Ferguson unrest

Evan Perez
CNN

Updated 8:57 AM ET, Mon November 24, 2014

A woman appears to have accidentally fatally shot herself in the head with a gun bought to prepare for possible Ferguson-related unrest, according to sources briefed on the police investigation.

The shooting occurred Friday night in downtown St. Louis, the city's Metropolitan Police Department said, in an area dominated by vacant lots beside a football stadium.
=========================

In which case keeping the gun from her could have saved her life.

I don't believe " just as easily" is the correct phrasing here. No one knows how easy it was, there might have been an incredible amount of stupid at work here.

Unfortunately, incredible amounts of stupid are not disqualifying when it comes to gun ownership.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[winsor 186]

kallend

Unfortunately, incredible amounts of stupid are not disqualifying when it comes to gun ownership.

Or breeding. which is much, much worse.

[turtlespeed 212]

winsor

***

Unfortunately, incredible amounts of stupid are not disqualifying when it comes to gun ownership.

Or breeding. which is much, much worse.the two are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jgoose71 0]

turtlespeed

******

Unfortunately, incredible amounts of stupid are not disqualifying when it comes to gun ownership.

Or breeding. which is much, much worse.the two are not mutually exclusive.

The next thing you know there is going to be a waiting period before you are allowed to try for a "Darwin Award."

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything