The Texas Biker Gang Massacre

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

billvon

>I am curious what the autopsy reports will show. How many killed by cops?

I would bet most of them, based purely on the likelihood that the cops were better trained than the bikers. So once the shooting started, they would be more likely to actually hit what they aimed at.

You think the cops are better with their guns than the bikers?

I doubt that. I've seen cops train (a couple local departments train at the range I'm part of). The qualification requirements aren't very difficult.
Given the wild sort of shooting that cops have been noted doing in the media recently, they aren't very good. Nine bystanders hit when the cops opened fire on one guy in New York, cop shoots kid in leg when trying to shoot a dog, sneaking up behind the old guy digging through his car, then opening fire when he jumps after being yelled at - two magazines emptied, three or four hits, none of them "good shots", The Diallo shooting in NYC, where several cops unloaded at a guy holding out his wallet. 41 shots, 19 hits. Very close range in a stairwell.

Given that shooting a gun is a very, very small part of their job (many cops go an entire career without ever firing outside of training), it's not surprising that many have marginal firearms skills.

OTOH, many of the bikers that I know are well aware that a gun is no good unless you can hit with it. They practice, and are pretty good. Interestingly, the "more outlaw" the biker, the more skilled they tend to be.
They also tend to be good in a confrontation situation (cops are too), being able to keep cool during a fight situation is something they value.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,380]

>You think the cops are better with their guns than the bikers?

I think they are likely better trained, and that would tend to translate into more effective action.

As with any groups, there are going to be great cops and terrible cops (and bikers that are great shots and bikers who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.) From eyewitness reports the first death was certainly the result of a biker shooting another biker; the next two likely were. I suspect we will find out that the majority of the remaining deaths were from police response.

[Rick 67]

also with both groups many are former military so they have firearm experience/training.
I am just curious to see how it all washes out. The mass arrests and over the top bond just didn't make sense to me.

They have the surveillance video and a shitload of eyewitnesses (civilian and LEO) so they should be able to piece it together with time.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[futuredivot 0]

The gag order lift was held up in appeal so it's still in place. Even though it's an opinion piece, this is a pretty good read. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/opinions/dulaney-lisa-ling-motorcycle-clubs/index.html

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Driver1 0]

CNN has released surveillance camera video of the shooting.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/10/29/waco-biker-shooting-surveillance-video-lavandera-pkg.cnn

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[futuredivot 0]

Seems like a lot of folks were moving AWAY from the gunfire. Sort of what I expected to see.
I loved the next video up about the DPS warning that bikers were going to target cops with grenades. (1) Note that it never happened (2) Check that one of the 'sources' was from the Black Widows MC. Here's the only Black Widows MC that anyone has ever heard of...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhl6TOyq3k

Now where's the dashcam vids, text messages, autopsy reports....

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[ryoder 1,381]

Video from inside Twin Peaks.
Scroll down to the second video, (first is just a teaser).

http://abc13.com/1057727/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 620]

Edited, selective video.

[ryoder 1,381]

normiss

Edited, selective video.

I don't see any bikers shooting;
Just looking to escape whoever is doing the shooting.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 620]

One of them takes a wild unaimed shot in the direction of the parking lot, then dumps the piece inside.

I'm still curious what the ballistics will tell.

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

Death tally - 9 dead bikers, dozens of wounded bikers....

Nine (9) more miscreants and their DNA out of the gene pool. Although I am concerned about what DNA they did spread before going to the big Harley Store in the sky.
Never ends i guess.
Oh well...

[Boomerdog 0]

Nice to see ya back Andy!

[normiss 620]

[Driver1 0]

normiss

What he's saying is the less of these 1 percenters there are, the better off we all are.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[futuredivot 0]

And that makes it better ?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[turtlespeed 212]

futuredivot

And that makes it better ?

From somebody's point of view, I suppose it must.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[futuredivot 0]

After over 142 days in jail the last biker is out on bail. Still no charges filed, and we don't really know more than we did one hour after the shooting.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[turtlespeed 212]

futuredivot

After over 142 days in jail the last biker is out on bail. Still no charges filed, and we don't really know more than we did one hour after the shooting.

Sounds like grounds for a civil rights lawsuit.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[winsor 185]

turtlespeed

***After over 142 days in jail the last biker is out on bail. Still no charges filed, and we don't really know more than we did one hour after the shooting.

Sounds like grounds for a civil rights lawsuit.

Civil rights are akin to animal rights in the sense that animal rights are most easily applied to cute animals.

Carrion eaters and parasites are every bit as much a part of the ecosystem as are bunnies and bambis, but they don't get anywhere near the attention. Similarly, having a bunch of hairy bikers subjected to mass gunfire by trigger happy police does not garner the same level of outrage as does a Kent State event.

I have been in a few shindigs where the bulk of attendees were biker trash, and the only time there was a problem was when cops showed up.

Mind you, I am not suggesting that there is no possibility of mindless violence among bikers from opposing factions that wind up in the same venue, or if someone says the VERY WRONG THING to them, but in this case, where the police cut deeply into their ammunition budget, the likelihood that it was anything but a massive police fuckup is practically nonexistent.

Even if you think bikers are Bad Guys, I contend that, if you want to wear the white hat, you have to follow the rules. In this case, the cops were an order of magnitude worse than the bikers.


BSBD,

Winsor

[futuredivot 0]

"Grand jury indicts 106 bikers in connection with Twin Peaks shootout"

I know that the level for indictment is pretty low but am I supposed to believe that the grand jury was able to determine the merits of 106 individual cases in less that 5.1 minutes each?

http://m.wacotrib.com/news/courts_and_trials/grand-jury-indicts-bikers-in-connection-with-twin-peaks-shootout/article_b6c55ddc-873b-522d-8378-d446bb652361.html?mode=jqm

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[normiss 620]

I'd say your doubt is pretty spot on.
Sounds like they're pretty positive the remaining ones will be indicted as well.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

futuredivot

"Grand jury indicts 106 bikers in connection with Twin Peaks shootout"

I know that the level for indictment is pretty low but am I supposed to believe that the grand jury was able to determine the merits of 106 individual cases in less that 5.1 minutes each?

http://m.wacotrib.com/news/courts_and_trials/grand-jury-indicts-bikers-in-connection-with-twin-peaks-shootout/article_b6c55ddc-873b-522d-8378-d446bb652361.html?mode=jqm

Why such a lack in comfort with grand jury decisions? Some here have held up grand jury decisions as clear proof people are innocent.

[futuredivot 0]

5 minutes per case. assuming in nine hours nobody ate or peed

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Yes Grand Juries tend to deliver what the prosecutor wants.

[billvon 2,380]

>I know that the level for indictment is pretty low but am I supposed to believe
>that the grand jury was able to determine the merits of 106 individual cases in
>less that 5.1 minutes each?

They're not deciding the merits of the case, just whether the case should proceed to trial.

On the two grand juries I've been on, the decisions themselves took considerably less than 5 minutes. After the first one the question the foreman asked "is there anyone who thinks this should NOT go to trial?" No one said anything. "OK, so we can agree that we return a true bill?" Everyone nodded; done.