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Amazon

Less than Lethal not so Less after all.

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http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2009/05/taser-related-deaths-in-united-states.html

634 Taser-Related Deaths in the United States Since 2001


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According to Amnesty International, between 2001 and 2008, 351 people in the United States died after being shocked by police Tasers. Our blog has documented another 283 taser-related deaths in the United States in 2009-2014. That means there have been 634 documented taser-related deaths in America.

This blog has been pointing out incidents of police taser torture for quite awhile. The work done over the past few years by Patti Gillman and Cameron Ward continue to be the inspiration for our work. Gillman and Ward documented over 869 taser-related deaths in North America on their blog.

I wonder if anyone cares about the rising use of the taser as a lethal weapon? At least we know that the Department of Justice cares. They issued a report about the pattern of abuse against the mentally ill in Portland that included the frequent, unnecessary use of Tasers. Recent deaths have begun to reignite the debate on taser torture. They are protesting in Phoenix, Arizona and the ACLU says that taser policies are ineffective in Iowa.





So Mr Serve and Protect..... how is that teaching people a lesson thing working out for your department.

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Typical...it was people like you who pushed for less lethal force to begin with... I hope you're happy.

Pretty soon our cops will be tackling the streets with paintball guns and Handkerchief codes...
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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that is a pretty stupid comment. our police are weaponized to the max..... and asking them to stop killing our citizens, given that 'we the people... bit' is not an unreasonable request.

Your comment ranks right up with 'christian prosecution' claims in America when there is a church on every corner.....

Cops are not more at any threat than they were 40 years ago when they had far less weaponry. I for one, would like to see a massive disarming of the police. They need to learn better ways of handling crime, as does the entire country. It starts with having some respect for people.

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tkhayes

I for one, would like to see a massive disarming of the police. They need to learn better ways of handling crime, as does the entire country. It starts with having some respect for people.



More ignorant shit...you never have lived in a violent inner city, have you?

We need to provide opportunity and allow people to disperse.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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We need to provide opportunity and allow people to disperse.



And you do not necessarily need armored personel carriers and assault rifles, tear gas, and tasers to accomplish that.

Your narrow view is restricted by your own experience, which is solving problems with weapons. Ask a plumber and you will get a plumbers opinion.

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tkhayes

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We need to provide opportunity and allow people to disperse.



And you do not necessarily need armored personel carriers and assault rifles, tear gas, and tasers to accomplish that.

Your narrow view is restricted by your own experience, which is solving problems with weapons. Ask a plumber and you will get a plumbers opinion.



Says the guy who accepts the harsh realities of life...especially when it comes to abortion.

Wasn't it you who said:
...the fact is we do not care that much about life. not really. Of course everyone likes to think that they do, but the only lives you really care about are those closest to you.

and no piece of legislation is going to fix that either....

...nothing wrong with ideologies I guess, but at some point you have to face reality and best to base policies and laws on that




...and then you have the gull to tell somebody else that they're full of shit...


Edit:
btw, providing opportunity has nothing to do with policing and solving problems with weapons...:S
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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My point was not only sarcastic but also realistic. I am allowed to decide which lives are more important than other lives (to me) as are you. you have no problem (apparently) with police being armed and killing people yet you claim to be pro life. I have no problem with women's rights and am tired of police killing innocent citizens.

seems you and me are alike no? scary thought.....

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No, I just don't think disarming police is the solution....

I think giving inner city folks opportunity and allowing them to disperse will help...

I'm pro choice, but provide influence against abortion.

Edit:
Furthermore, if we could stop focusing on imaginary racism and just unite for fucking once, maybe we could actually changed the justice system that in reality affects all people.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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if we could stop focusing on imaginary racism and just unite for fucking once

People tend to unite based on a single perceived common problem. If one group sees pervasive racism as their big common problem, it's going to be hard for the group that's seen to be the cause of that racism to join them.

Creating a new, bigger, problem (e.g. 9/11) isn't the answer. But 9/11 really was seen as a big common problem around which a whole lot of the US rallied.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Coreeece

*** I for one, would like to see a massive disarming of the police. They need to learn better ways of handling crime, as does the entire country. It starts with having some respect for people.



More ignorant shit...you never have lived in a violent inner city, have you?

.

I can't speak for TK's residences, but I have worked on the south side of Chicago for 37 years, I currently live there, and I agree 100% with TK's words.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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So if a criminal gets his hands on a taser, then what is the correct reaction?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Amazon

***So if a criminal gets his hands on a taser, then what is the correct reaction?



Shiny Metal Death .... of course.....:ph34r:

(considering the blatant killing from a couple weeks ago....)

If you assume it's a lethal weapon......Do you pursue that criminal as if he has his hands on a gun?
Do you treat those weapons as equal?



It's about parity - your premise is that you want the cops to use and handle these as equivalently lethal weapons. Do you also want to treat these items as equivalent, then -

if in the hands of a criminal
if in the hands of a citizen

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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rehmwa

******So if a criminal gets his hands on a taser, then what is the correct reaction?



Shiny Metal Death .... of course.....:ph34r:

(considering the blatant killing from a couple weeks ago....)

If you assume it's a lethal weapon......Do you pursue that criminal as if he has his hands on a gun?
Do you treat those weapons as equal?



It's about parity - your premise is that you want the cops to use and handle these as equivalently lethal weapons. Do you also want to treat these items as equivalent, then -

if in the hands of a criminal
if in the hands of a citizen

It is all about the usage..... in anyone's hands..... misuse any weapon and you need to be held accountable

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It's about parity - your premise is that you want the cops to use and handle these as equivalently lethal weapons.



I don't think that was the premise - unless you're only allowing Amazon to argue in black or white.

Any fair appraisal of tazer use should acknowledge that there is a lower threshold for its use compared to firearms, but that there is still a threshold. It should not be used indiscriminately as a first resort as if it has no consequences.

Frankly the linked case is an indictment of LEO attitudes and training regarding both tazers and the mentally ill.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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jakee

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It's about parity - your premise is that you want the cops to use and handle these as equivalently lethal weapons.



I don't think that was the premise - unless you're only allowing Amazon to argue in black or white.



I don't think anyone "allows" Jeanne to do something she's not intending to do....

I liked her response quite a bit - responsibility and accountability for how one uses any tool is a fair answer

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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The average police officer in the US better geared up than how many countries kit out their military – you’ve got to be kidding.

We see it takes very damn little for a US policeman to shoot someone (not an indictment that all are bad, but you do have a disproportionate number of bad ones). When it comes to tasers, they seem to hand out tasering as if they’re handing out sweets; it’s overused. You taser children, the elderly, even people who don’t speak English and are unable to “show some respect for AUTHORITY” fast enough.

You asked TK how much “city time” he has? WTF? I’ve got a few decades living in the large cities (London, Hong Kong, New York & Chicago). I have some comparisons; I see that the US policing model is shit.
"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

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Tasers are a good idea as an alternative to deadly force. Problems arise when they are used as an instrument of convenience and extrajudicial punishment.

They were marketed to the public as a life saving implement to give cops options short of deadly force, but they are used without accountability as torture compliance devices in situations where deadly force would never be acceptable.

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kallend

****** I for one, would like to see a massive disarming of the police. They need to learn better ways of handling crime, as does the entire country. It starts with having some respect for people.



More ignorant shit...you never have lived in a violent inner city, have you?

.

I can't speak for TK's residences, but I have worked on the south side of Chicago for 37 years, I currently live there, and I agree 100% with TK's words.

I know...you want to "massively disarm" everybody. I wish that was a practical solution.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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RMK

You asked TK how much “city time” he has? WTF? I’ve got a few decades living in the large cities (London, Hong Kong, New York & Chicago). I have some comparisons; I see that the US policing model is shit.



First things first...once we get our crime and unemployment rates lowered and under control, then maybe we can start talking about "disarming the police," but I wouldn't expect us to start emulating China anytime soon...
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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Coreeece

*** I for one, would like to see a massive disarming of the police. They need to learn better ways of handling crime, as does the entire country. It starts with having some respect for people.



More ignorant shit...you never have lived in a violent inner city, have you?

We need to provide opportunity and allow people to disperse.

I think you need to expand your geography table and think about people where there are 2 or 3 policemen for hundreds of people spread far out. Where it would take an LEO up to an hour or two just to arrive onsite and then only be armed with a police baton? I think TK should have his very own police disarmed and then go a few years to see what its like.

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Coreeece

***You asked TK how much “city time” he has? WTF? I’ve got a few decades living in the large cities (London, Hong Kong, New York & Chicago). I have some comparisons; I see that the US policing model is shit.



First things first...once we get our crime and unemployment rates lowered and under control, then maybe we can start talking about "disarming the police," but I wouldn't expect us to start emulating China anytime soon...

FUCK THAT. Once the police are disarmed, what next? I'm sorry but having a criminal element crying about police brutality isn't worthy disarmament. Want to have a valid discussion? Stop getting arrested! And moreover...once you get arrested stop resisting.

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regulator

******You asked TK how much “city time” he has? WTF? I’ve got a few decades living in the large cities (London, Hong Kong, New York & Chicago). I have some comparisons; I see that the US policing model is shit.



First things first...once we get our crime and unemployment rates lowered and under control, then maybe we can start talking about "disarming the police," but I wouldn't expect us to start emulating China anytime soon...

FUCK THAT. Once the police are disarmed, what next? I'm sorry but having a criminal element crying about police brutality isn't worthy disarmament. Want to have a valid discussion? Stop getting arrested! And moreover...once you get arrested stop resisting.

You sound like my anger translator...:P
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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