The Cost of Gun Violence

[RMK 3]

Interesting article on the cost of gun violence:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Driver1 0]

I'd be interested in comparing the cost of Gun Violence to the cost of vehicle wrecks using the parameters in the article. I bet it's significantly more for vehicle wrecks.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[sfzombie13 307]

from the article: "Take motor vehicle crashes: Using statistical models to estimate a range of costs both tangible and more abstract—from property damage and traffic congestion to physical pain and lost quality of life—the Department of Transportation (DOT) published a 300-page study estimating the "total value of societal harm" from this problem in 2010 at $871 billion."

shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate the amount caused by alcohol, but you would need to see the numbers from the study. should be public domain though.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[RMK 3]

A comparison to automotive deaths is meaningless; everyone in the US needs to get for A to B. However, a comparison to alcohol-related deaths, I would agree, would have some merit; not everyone has to drink.

I looked at the nominal numbers for US/UK on gun deaths and see the following:

For the last year which I could quickly find comparisons (2012) there were 51 gun deaths in the UK, there were over 30,000 in the US (83 a day). The nominal number was 30,295 (the number rounding alone is higher than if you scale up the UK population to that of the US (we’d still only have a little more 250 gun deaths).

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Anvilbrother 0]

How many guns do you have in the uk vs how many guns do you have in the us?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[jtiflyer 0]

How many of those deaths were Suicides? Homicides? How many were acts of self defense? How many were "accidents"? Numbers alone are pretty useless without categorizing them.


eta: No different then how the USPA breaks down the fatalities every year. Numbers need definition behind them.

[gunpaq 1]

I never saw a gun cause violence, I have never seen an automobile cause a crash, and I have never seen a bottle cause alcoholism.

www.geronimoskydiving.com

[Coreeece 2]

gunpaq

I have never seen an automobile cause a crash.

Well there have been instances of Toyota's refusing to stop and Chevy's turning off the ignition by themselves.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[RMK 3]

jtiflyer

How many of those deaths were Suicides? Homicides? How many were acts of self defense? How many were "accidents"? Numbers alone are pretty useless without categorizing them.


eta: No different then how the USPA breaks down the fatalities every year. Numbers need definition behind them.

There was a quite detailed breakdown of the numbers; it appears you omitted to read the article.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[RMK 3]

gunpaq

I never saw a gun cause violence, I have never seen an automobile cause a crash, and I have never seen a bottle cause alcoholism.

A simpleton reply. It's about a gun problem irrespective of whether its the number of guns or the number of idiots holding the guns - there is an irrefutable problem (like noting a 600lb woman is overweight)

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Glitch 0]

...the fork didn't make her fat.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[turtlespeed 212]

Glitch

...the fork didn't make her fat.

Neither did the thousands of pounds of healthy food she ate.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[masterblaster72 0]

gunpaq

I never saw a gun cause violence, I have never seen an automobile cause a crash, and I have never seen a bottle cause alcoholism.

Guns don't kill people, uh-uh. I kill people...with guns (pow).

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[champu 1]

There are a couple quotes from the article that illustrate the problem with the way gun control advocates present their argument, and why people tend to react with statements like, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." It's no more a simpleton statement than is, "it (that is, one thing) is a problem no matter how you look at it."

Quote

"I never take positions on legislation," he notes. "Instead, I provide numbers to inform decision making."

The numbers don't inform decision making. Nobody reviews a study of collective costs of guns, writes a piece of legislation, and then uses similar methodology to determine the value of their legislation. How the person doing the study arrives at the number, be it a dollar value or a death toll, goes right out the window when it comes time to write a law.

For example: Mother jones likes to draw attention to suicides as every bit a problem as other gun violence and, based on the numbers in the article, a majority of the $230B they quote is losses of statistical life due to the 20,000 suicides. That's fine until they try to say that total cost can be divided up amongst all Americans, or they try to use this total cost to support their flagship legislation: bans on assault weapons or 10+ magazines.

Quote

Longdon is well aware that 2,000 unwanted guns melted down by the Phoenix PD is a tiny fraction of the firepower out there. But the cost of gun violence works out to more than $800 a year each for Arizona's 6.7 million residents, and if she can start to chip away at that by keeping guns out of the wrong hands, it's worth it to her. "Not one of those guns will ever be used in a suicide, an accidental discharge, or a crime," she says, "and that is significant."

It is not significant. Gun owners, guns, gun deaths, the costs of gun deaths, and gun laws are not homogenous quantities and simply cannot be treated as such. You can very easily destroy 2000 guns in a buyback and cause exactly zero change in future deaths and injuries.

[rushmc 18]

RMK

A comparison to automotive deaths is meaningless; everyone in the US needs to get for A to B. However, a comparison to alcohol-related deaths, I would agree, would have some merit; not everyone has to drink.

I looked at the nominal numbers for US/UK on gun deaths and see the following:

For the last year which I could quickly find comparisons (2012) there were 51 gun deaths in the UK, there were over 30,000 in the US (83 a day). The nominal number was 30,295 (the number rounding alone is higher than if you scale up the UK population to that of the US (we’d still only have a little more 250 gun deaths).

Gun violence is meaningless as well
Guns do not cause violence
Nor do bats
or knives
or whips
or cars
or any other object you list

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

jtiflyer

How many of those deaths were Suicides? Homicides? How many were acts of self defense? How many were "accidents"? Numbers alone are pretty useless without categorizing them.


eta: No different then how the USPA breaks down the fatalities every year. Numbers need definition behind them.

The biggest portion of that number is usually criminal on crimnal violence
banning guns will really make a differenct there huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

RMK

***I never saw a gun cause violence, I have never seen an automobile cause a crash, and I have never seen a bottle cause alcoholism.

A simpleton reply. It's about a gun problem irrespective of whether its the number of guns or the number of idiots holding the guns - there is an irrefutable problem (like noting a 600lb woman is overweight)
the simpelton reply is yours
A violence problem? Yes
Adding any object in front of that is politically motivated at best

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RMK 3]

rushmc

the simpelton reply is yours

You can’t even spell “simpleton”

No, it’s not all “gang bangers in the hood” as your crazypeople.com websites inform you.

Here’s a collection of child shootings; note that this doesn’t really happen in other advanced countries:

http://kidshootings.blogspot.co.uk/

Regarding analysis of numbers & stats (which we’ve seen is not your forte); following is the intended point

A) “You’re standing waist-deep in shit”

B) “No, you are incorrect. The shit only comes to mid-thigh level.”

A) “My point is that you are standing in shit”

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[rushmc 18]

RMK

***
the simpelton reply is yours

You can’t even spell “simpleton”

No, it’s not all “gang bangers in the hood” as your crazypeople.com websites inform you.

Here’s a collection of child shootings; note that this doesn’t really happen in other advanced countries:

http://kidshootings.blogspot.co.uk/

Regarding analysis of numbers & stats (which we’ve seen is not your forte); following is the intended point

A) “You’re standing waist-deep in shit”

B) “No, you are incorrect. The shit only comes to mid-thigh level.”

A) “My point is that you are standing in shit”



You have every right to be wrong
Oh I know it is your view


BTW
What is crazypeople. com?

I know you do not understand the politic behind this debate
I know you do not understand the reason the founders placed the 2nd Amendment as they did
I know you do not understand a gun is an object and that violence comes from people, not objects
Theyfore, you can be wrong IMO
We are not in shit
But you want to believe we are

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

I know you do not understand the reason the founders placed the 2nd Amendment as they did

They had a decent reason in those days, with the passage of time it is clear they are wrong.

Regardless, there is no way of changing it now. So you get the "local" equivalent of a "global" (cold) war. An arms race on multiple fronts, which eventually will implode.

[RMK 3]

rushmc

BTW
What is crazypeople. com?

I use it as a generalist term inclusive of Breitbart, Blaze and Fox News (your holy trinity of new clippings).

rushmc

I know you do not understand the politic behind this debate

I lived in the US for 20yrs; I grew up there. I’ve owned many guns; I kept a .45 semi-auto loaded with hollow points and “one in the pipe” in my flat. However, I was a younger man then with a limited view of the world.

Now having more life experience and having lived in other cities (Europe and Asia), I look back with a better informed viewpoint.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Slater 0]

RMK

***
the simpelton reply is yours

You can’t even spell “simpleton”

No, it’s not all “gang bangers in the hood” as your crazypeople.com websites inform you.

Here’s a collection of child shootings; note that this doesn’t really happen in other advanced countries:

http://kidshootings.blogspot.co.uk/

Regarding analysis of numbers & stats (which we’ve seen is not your forte); following is the intended point

A) “You’re standing waist-deep in shit”

B) “No, you are incorrect. The shit only comes to mid-thigh level.”

A) “My point is that you are standing in shit”

funny talk is guy from country where burglar brake in home and owner goes gaol for defends home. nice country, si? then you is talk about gun violence means you are animist and believe as objects have spirits and will, you know is rock violence, knife violence, oh sorry, I forget your whole country are think this way.

Slater

McConkey es Dios

[RMK 3]

I loved the John Oliver “Last Week Tonight” skit on the 2nd Amendment

...NRA people throwing a tantrum like a 2yr old saying “it can’t be changed; it’s a constitutional amendment”. John Oliver says: “Yes you can. It’s actually right there in the name; the word AMENDMENT”

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Glitch 0]

Quote

They had a decent reason in those days, with the passage of time it is clear they are wrong.

Wow... Not sure what to say on that. Other than, once again, you you're showing yourself to be incredibly niave, and oblivious to the lessons history teaches us.

Their reasons are as important today as they were then. You can live on your knees if you like, but your right to do so shouldn't affect those of us who would prefer to stand.

Quote

Regardless, there is no way of changing it now.

Again, let me correct you. There IS a way to "change" it. We have a well established process in place to change our Constitution. If you feel so strongly about it, get out and so something to affect the change. Get involved, get the votes and do your best to Amend the Constitution of these United States. I wish you luck. You're going to need it.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[RMK 3]

Got to lighten up on the insecurity. No one is necessarily saying your typical “Earl & Billy Bob” can’t have a gun to go squirrel huntin [sic]. Maybe let’s start by not having the whole populace “packing” so that every disagreement can end in a gun fight or leaving guns around as nonchalantly as a packet of sweets. Maybe don’t leave said gun on the kitchen table when small children are playing in the house.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"