War on Drugs.... Who Benefits???

[Amazon 7]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-drug-officer-says-he-stole-cash-planted-drugs-many-times/ar-AAb0iDC?ocid=ansnewsap11

Looks like these cops were doing nicely for themselves.

[quade 3]

Also, don't forget a large part of our prison system in the US is privately staffed and operated. Prisons in the US aren't -just- for rehabilitation of criminals; they're also for profit. BIG profit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RonD1120 58]

Substance use disorder treatment facilities, think about the liberal counselors specializing in drug treatment. NIDA supports a lot of jobs.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

Quote

...think about the liberal counselors specializing in drug treatment.

Like you?

- Dan G

[SkyDekker 1,120]

DanG

Quote

...think about the liberal counselors specializing in drug treatment.

Like you?

No, no, he did god's work...it is all very different....now where did I leave my government cheque?

[RonD1120 58]

Absolutely, I had a mortgage payment to make.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 620]

Right there is THE war on drugs justification.

[Shotgun 1]

RonD1120

Substance use disorder treatment facilities, think about the liberal counselors specializing in drug treatment. NIDA supports a lot of jobs.

Ending the "War on Drugs" isn't likely to hurt the treatment industry. Addiction will still be around. I mean, alcohol is probably the top substance that people seek treatment for right now, and it's legal. More legal drugs would likely mean more people seeking treatment, though possibly(?) less who would be court-ordered to treatment.

[Southern_Man 0]

Shotgun

***Substance use disorder treatment facilities, think about the liberal counselors specializing in drug treatment. NIDA supports a lot of jobs.

Ending the "War on Drugs" isn't likely to hurt the treatment industry. Addiction will still be around. I mean, alcohol is probably the top substance that people seek treatment for right now, and it's legal. More legal drugs would likely mean more people seeking treatment, though possibly(?) less who would be court-ordered to treatment.

Probably not. People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is contributing factor to some other problem (e.g. bar fights, or poor parenting) and not usually an outcome of the drug use itself (although that sometimes happens too).

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[billvon 2,379]

>People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is
>contributing factor to some other problem . . . .

But is most alcoholism treatment court-ordered?

[Shotgun 1]

Southern_Man

Probably not. People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is contributing factor to some other problem (e.g. bar fights, or poor parenting) and not usually an outcome of the drug use itself (although that sometimes happens too).

Yeah, you're probably right about that.

[Shotgun 1]

billvon

>People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is
>contributing factor to some other problem . . . .

But is most alcoholism treatment court-ordered?

I don't think so. But most court-ordered treatment is probably due to drunk driving.

Edit to add: Which is in line with what he was saying - court-ordered because of a behavior while using the drug but not because of the drug use itself.

[Coreeece 2]

Shotgun

***>People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is
>contributing factor to some other problem . . . .

But is most alcoholism treatment court-ordered?

I don't think so. But most court-ordered treatment is probably due to drunk driving.

Edit to add: Which is in line with what he was saying - court-ordered because of a behavior while using the drug but not because of the drug use itself.

I think it's also worth noting that many people are ordered to rehab for the abuse/possession of prescription drugs without a doctors note.

So now, if Schedule I drugs are legalized, would those against the war on drugs also seek to legalize schedule 2,3,4 and 5 prescription drugs without a doctor's approval?

If so, I wonder how that would affect insurance rates and those seeking doctor approved medicinal use.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

So now, if Schedule I drugs are legalized, would those against the war on drugs also seek to legalize schedule 2,3,4 and 5 prescription drugs without a doctor's approval?

My simple answer is yes; I think all of the currently "scheduled" drugs should be legal (not a crime for most adults to possess any of them, even without a prescription). But my realistic answer? I have no f'n clue how that would actually work.

The war on drugs has gone on for so long and gotten so complicated that I don't how we could get ourselves out of such a mess. Though I think we're generally headed in a better direction with marijuana slowly becoming legal.

As for who benefits from the "war," no doubt Big Pharm and Big Alcohol are somewhere on the long list. Organized crime is probably at the top of the list.

Edit to add: As much as I am against the "War on Drugs," because I believe it does more harm than good, I'm sure there are some real people out there who are benefiting from it. Potential addicts who don't have an affinity for the current legal drugs and who are deterred enough by the illegality of the illegal drugs. I'm sure it is protecting some people, as it advertises, but ultimately I do believe it's at an unacceptable price (the old freedom vs. safety issue).

[JohnnyMarko 1]

billvon

>People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is
>contributing factor to some other problem . . . .

But is most alcoholism treatment court-ordered?

Mine was

[Amazon 7]

Shotgun

Quote

So now, if Schedule I drugs are legalized, would those against the war on drugs also seek to legalize schedule 2,3,4 and 5 prescription drugs without a doctor's approval?

My simple answer is yes; I think all of the currently "scheduled" drugs should be legal (not a crime for most adults to possess any of them, even without a prescription). But my realistic answer? I have no f'n clue how that would actually work.

The war on drugs has gone on for so long and gotten so complicated that I don't how we could get ourselves out of such a mess. Though I think we're generally headed in a better direction with marijuana slowly becoming legal.

As for who benefits from the "war," no doubt Big Pharm and Big Alcohol are somewhere on the long list. Organized crime is probably at the top of the list.

Just think of what police departments were once charged to do.... Serve and protect.

Now they are revenue generating entities...... fund themselves with ill gotten gains.... and utilize gestapo tactics on a daily basis.

They only serve and protect themselves and each other.... "I feared for my life"... BLAM BLAM BLAM.

[Coreeece 2]

Amazon

Just think of what police departments were once charged to do.... Serve and protect.

Now they are revenue generating entities...... fund themselves with ill gotten gains.... .

Nobody cares to talk about cops stealing money from a bunch of drug dealing thugs when we already have plenty of threads about cops murdering and beating the shit out of people...

Take a hint...this is a thread about the war on drugs just as the title suggests.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

Shotgun

Quote

So now, if Schedule I drugs are legalized, would those against the war on drugs also seek to legalize schedule 2,3,4 and 5 prescription drugs without a doctor's approval?

My simple answer is yes; I think all of the currently "scheduled" drugs should be legal (not a crime for most adults to possess any of them, even without a prescription). But my realistic answer? I have no f'n clue how that would actually work.

The war on drugs has gone on for so long and gotten so complicated that I don't how we could get ourselves out of such a mess. Though I think we're generally headed in a better direction with marijuana slowly becoming legal.

As for who benefits from the "war," no doubt Big Pharm and Big Alcohol are somewhere on the long list. Organized crime is probably at the top of the list.

Edit to add: As much as I am against the "War on Drugs," because I believe it does more harm than good, I'm sure there are some real people out there who are benefiting from it. Potential addicts who don't have an affinity for the current legal drugs and who are deterred enough by the illegality of the illegal drugs. I'm sure it is protecting some people, as it advertises, but ultimately I do believe it's at an unacceptable price (the old freedom vs. safety issue).

I'm glad you've added that edit. Your thoughtfulness and ability to see all the angles is always appreciated.

While I certainly see the negatives of prohibition, what stands out to me the most are the lives that have been changed for the better because of the system.

Perhaps the best solution would be to have a drug reform bill where we lax many of the drug laws but take responsibility for those that may not have the ability to handle that level of freedom.

For example, if you end up in the hospital of an overdose, you'll be subjected to treatment or a detox facility.

Perhaps we could have a system where family and friends of loved ones could come to the court and say hey, our brother is abusing drugs to the point that it may kill him. He's out of control and we'd like you to review his case to determine if the state feels treatment is necessary.

Perhaps severe drug addicts that display detrimental changes in behavior over time could be treated as the mentally ill and committed?

Who knows, eh?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[RonD1120 58]

Coreeece

Perhaps we could have a system where family and friends of loved ones could come to the court and say hey, our brother is abusing drugs to the point that it may kill him. He's out of control and we'd like you to review his case to determine if the state feels treatment is necessary.

Perhaps severe drug addicts that display detrimental changes in behavior over time could be treated as the mentally ill and committed?

FL has the Marchman Act for substance abuse and the Baker Act for mental illness. Family and friends may utilize the courts for the issuance of an ex parte order for treatment. It is rarely used. Most court ordered treatment comes through the criminal justice system.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Southern_Man 0]

JohnnyMarko

***>People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is
>contributing factor to some other problem . . . .

But is most alcoholism treatment court-ordered?

Mine was

Can you tell us the circumstances? Were you DUI or otherwise engaged in illegal activity? It is fine if you don't want to.

As for the original question, I do not know the numbers. I suspect that there is a larger percentage of alcohol treatment that is self-referred rather than court referred, due to complicated factors like the relatively social acceptability of being an alcoholic vs. a drug addict, the lack of criminal precursors necessary to acquire alcohol, and the ability to access insurance benefits for treatment. There is still a fair amount (but again I don't know the numbers) of court ordered alcohol treatment.

Of course my experience is in public health, and people w/ good insurance who self-refer would tend to go through private providers instead of public health. People who are court ordered would tend to go through public health.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Amazon 7]

Coreeece

***
Just think of what police departments were once charged to do.... Serve and protect.

Now they are revenue generating entities...... fund themselves with ill gotten gains.... .

Nobody cares to talk about cops stealing money from a bunch of drug dealing thugs when we already have plenty of threads about cops murdering and beating the shit out of people...

Take a hint...this is a thread about the war on drugs just as the title suggests.

Except when officers confiscate property..... not even related to the drug trade.... and the innocent citizen must prove that their property was not derived from illegal sources... works out great for lawyers... not so great for citizens living in an oppressive police state.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Southern_Man

******>People who are court ordered to treatment are usually there because their drug use is
>contributing factor to some other problem . . . .

But is most alcoholism treatment court-ordered?

Mine was

Can you tell us the circumstances? Were you DUI or otherwise engaged in illegal activity? It is fine if you don't want to.


Let's just say had the outcome of that night been different, I wouldn't be here

[Hjeada 0]

Amazon

Except when officers confiscate property..... not even related to the drug trade.... and the innocent citizen must prove that their property was not derived from illegal sources... works out great for lawyers... not so great for citizens living in an oppressive police state.

The war on drugs is extremely lucrative for police...confiscation of cars, property, monies, etc with limited ability of the average citizen to get their property back without expensive court battles. Additionally, low level 'drug busts' for possession certainly help with clearing rates.

Dudeist Skydiver #0511

[Coreeece 2]

RonD1120

***

Perhaps we could have a system where family and friends of loved ones could come to the court and say hey, our brother is abusing drugs to the point that it may kill him. He's out of control and we'd like you to review his case to determine if the state feels treatment is necessary.

Perhaps severe drug addicts that display detrimental changes in behavior over time could be treated as the mentally ill and committed?

FL has the Marchman Act for substance abuse and the Baker Act for mental illness. Family and friends may utilize the courts for the issuance of an ex parte order for treatment. It is rarely used.

Ya, I'm probably being a bit naive, but that's to be expected when talking about things like legalizing heroin...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[kawisixer01 0]

Don't forget about correctional worker unions. Higher incarceration rates tend to held those guys out as well. Hence why they come out in troves every time there is talk of relaxing statutes on drugs.