Guns, Guns and more Guns

[Squeegle 0]

Washington Times

Headline: "Obama gun control push backfires as industry sees unprecedented surge"

Quote: "The American firearms industry is as healthy as ever, seeing an unprecedented surge that has sent production of guns soaring to more than 10.8 million manufactured in 2013 alone — double the total of just three years earlier.

Link: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/8/obama-gun-control-push-backfires-as-us-firearms-in/?_sm_au_=iMVnQFqMNZq71wwH

[JWest 0]

"Obama gun control push".... I wasn't aware it was a bad thing. I am aware that the NRA hyped up that Obama was going to take your guns. All Obama did was try to make sure that guns go into the hands of people who will safely use them. His other executive orders like banning assault weapons was nothing new. Assault weapons have been mostly illegal before Obama was in office.

Note: I'm an avid shooter/combat vet/ own 3 handguns and 5 rifles. I'm in no way against guns. Just think its crazy that people blame Obama for something that most gun owners see as a good thing. Keeping guns away from people who will give them a bad reputation.

[Anvilbrother 0]

So your ok with the green tip ammo ban? That is just 1 of the dozens of angles they have been trying since he was in office. Their motive is to get rid of guns anyway possible. If that even means taking the ammo if they cant go the straight forward way and take the gun first.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[JWest 0]

Anvilbrother

So your ok with the green tip ammo ban? That is just 1 of the dozens of angles they have been trying since he was in office. Their motive is to get rid of guns anyway possible. If that even means taking the ammo if they cant go the straight forward way and take the gun first.

Why do we need armor pricing ammo?

[Anvilbrother 0]

I honestly do not believe your an avid shooter if you don't already know that any .556 ammo is already armor piercing due to its speed, and that green tip ammo was not designed to do that.

The green tip armor piercing let's help save cops from these bullets shit was conned up by the politicians in attempt to stop rifle owners from using their AR variant rifles in a cost efficient manor after they failed to enact other legal measures to control them. Even the cops unions stepped up and said we are not getting shot by these bullets, stop using us as your unethical crusade against legal rifle owners.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

JWest

***So your ok with the green tip ammo ban? That is just 1 of the dozens of angles they have been trying since he was in office. Their motive is to get rid of guns anyway possible. If that even means taking the ammo if they cant go the straight forward way and take the gun first.

Why do we need armor piercing ammo?

Ummm.....

To pierce armor?
Isn't that what any bullet does?

Makes holes in things?

To decide that a particular cartridge or bullet is "Bad", especially when it isn't any more effective at that task (and actually a whole lot less effective) than a variety of other choices is stupid.

Or it's a camouflage technique designed to hide the real motivations behind the ban.

I have a real problem with the "Anti" crowd deciding that "This" is bad. And then "That" is bad.

ANY "anti" crowd. Dogs, guns, cars, whatever.

They look for any way to add restrictions on, and then look for ways to expand those restrictions.

Edit to add:

Oh yeah, what "assault rifles" did Obama ban by exec order?

And which ones were illegal at a federal level before that?

There's lots of state restrictions in a variety of states, but most of the federal laws "sunsetted."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JWest 0]

Anvilbrother

I honestly do not believe your an avid shooter if you don't already know that any .556 ammo is already armor piercing due to its speed, and that green tip ammo was not designed to do that.

The green tip armor piercing let's help save cops from these bullets shit was conned up by the politicians in attempt to stop rifle owners from using their AR variant rifles in a cost efficient manor after they failed to enact other legal measures to control them. Even the cops unions stepped up and said we are not getting shot by these bullets, stop using us as your unethical crusade against legal rifle owners.

I apologize, it has been a while since I used anything other than store bought ammo. Green tip ammo is the standard issued 5.56 ammo, black tip is armor piercing and red tip is a tracer round. That was my mistake. The green tip just indicates it was designed for deeper penetration. It also helps penetration at longer ranges.

Not all 5.56 ammo is armor piercing. Sure it's can be considered that for the things you previously mentioned but compared to an actual armor piercing round it is different. When I was in the military we did not call green tip armor pricing, if we needed that we would use black tip. Also I have worn armor that can stop a 5.56mm round and plates that can stop up to a 7.62mm.

[grimmie 173]

Anvilbrother

So your ok with the green tip ammo ban? That is just 1 of the dozens of angles they have been trying since he was in office. Their motive is to get rid of guns anyway possible. If that even means taking the ammo if they cant go the straight forward way and take the gun first.

Is that why the president signed two laws allowing guns on Amtrak trains and in National Parks in his first term? That's an odd way to remove guns from society.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/flashback-obama-i-have-expanded-rights-of-gun-owners/

[Anvilbrother 0]

Keep drinking the cool aid

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,395]

>Is that why the president signed two laws allowing guns on Amtrak trains and in
>National Parks in his first term? That's an odd way to remove guns from society.

That's just what he WANTS you to think. It's a very sophisticated double reverse psychology trick. Like cutting taxes when he really wants to raise them, or reducing the size of government when we all know he won't he happy until everyone in the US works for the government.

[rwieder 0]

Quote

Why do we need armor pricing ammo?

Because it's our right to have it under the Constitution!

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

Why do we need armor pricing ammo?

The larger question of which your question is derived is why do private citizens need armor piercing ammunition?

It's a fair question. Perhaps one of the possible answers is that armor piercing ammunition being a function of both material composition in the round and an increased charge of powder makes a greater lethal impact upon larger game such as moose, elk, etc.

Looking to history, the frontiersman of the late 1700's utilized single shot rifles and preferred the rifled barrel over the smooth barreled musket used by the infantry forces of the day. The rifled barrel of course impaired a lateral spin to the ball as it traversed the barrel once discharged by the powder and as you probably know, the round maintained a more accurate path to the target. The frontiersman were not rich, hunted for their food, so one shot one kill was a real factor in survival.

The larger issue to be derived is that in possession of the rifle, the private citizen had a clear technological edge over an infantryman i.e. a member of the military and by legitimate extension, a member of the government. The Continental Army utilized frontiersman as snipers against the British in the American Revolution...the rifled barrel superior performance in hunting now had a direct military application to warfare...a dual use capability.

[champu 1]

JWest

Why do we need armor piercing ammo?

For the same reason we need "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines" and "unsafe handguns", because if you wait through enough iterations of the laws, just about everything will be an unsafe high capacity armor piercing assault weapon. There's a .22lr target pistol (M&P 22c) my dad wanted to get me for my birthday but he can't because it's an "assault weapon" by California's standards.

Regarding the other train of thought in this thread, Obama should not really be at the center of gun control debate unless you're talking about appointing judges. SCOTUS decisions on gun control cases (if and when they grant cert) are likely to be 5-4 decisions down "appointment party lines", and that's really where all these debates end.

[kallend 1,623]

rwieder

Quote

Why do we need armor pricing ammo?

Because it's our right to have it under the Constitution!

Wrong on 2 counts:

1. You don't NEED something just because you have a right to it,

2. The Supreme Court stated clearly in Heller that some items can be restricted.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[cgriff 0]

kallend

2. The Supreme Court stated clearly in Heller that some items can be restricted.

Yes, and in Miller they stated that what can be restricted is NON-military hardware... Funny how words change their meaning based on who's on the Court...

[rwieder 0]

Quote

Wrong on 2 counts:

1. You don't NEED something just because you have a right to it,

2. The Supreme Court stated clearly in Heller that some items can be restricted.

I'll be the judge of that!

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[kallend 1,623]

rwieder

Quote

Wrong on 2 counts:

1. You don't NEED something just because you have a right to it,

2. The Supreme Court stated clearly in Heller that some items can be restricted.

I'll be the judge of that!

I don't recall your appointment to SCOTUS. When was it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.