rushmc 18 #51 April 7, 2015 SkyDekker******QuoteNo Sandy Hook has little to do with the price of out 2nd Amendment Thank you for taking the bait to show that your argument is being driven by emotion, which is exactly what derek was trying to point out. There is a price to be paid for everything, including the easy availability of guns. Conversly, there would be a price to payed if we removed all guns Agreed, I have stated many times before that banning all guns wouldn't be an option for the US. Claiming all the good guns do, while blaming the negatives associated with it on something else is dishonest though. the only time I see the good guns argument is in rebuttal to the bad guns argument so you have no point there In the end however, based on what you just posted here, more gun restrictions would only impact those law abiding people who would not commit the carnage in the first place The issue is not guns"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #52 April 7, 2015 Quote...Sandy Hook is the price you pay for your 2nd amendment. ... That's a f'n deal, no matter how you slice it! ...compared to costs paid by souls in Russia under Stalin, Europe under Hitler, Asia under Mao Tze Tung, and Pol Pot. The price of Freedom isn't free. Be careful what you wish for.Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #53 April 7, 2015 HooknswoopDo you accept 90 deaths/day as the price to drive your car? Derek V He's using the Chewbacca defense. Traffic is totally unrelated to the thread topic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #54 April 7, 2015 rushmc the only time I see the good guns argument is in rebuttal to the bad guns argument so you have no point there So you didn't see the OP then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #55 April 7, 2015 turtlespeed******Some actually are. How many lives are saved by guns each day? I can throw facts without numbers also. Tell us how many lives are saved by guns in the USA every day, then. 320,000,000 or so. Just rounding down. You realize that is absurd, of course. Well, in your case, maybe not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,294 #56 April 7, 2015 Quotethe only time I see the good guns argument is in rebuttal to the bad guns argument This thread is clear evidence of you being wrong. You know what Marc, I am sure you are a bright guy, but this tendency to "dig in no matter what" gives people the exact opposite impression. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #57 April 7, 2015 John- I answered your questions. My question is very simple. Do you want to discuss the issue or not? Derek V Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #58 April 7, 2015 HooknswoopJohn- I answered your questions. My question is very simple. Do you want to discuss the issue or not? Derek V The issue is guns, not traffic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #59 April 7, 2015 SkyDekkerQuoteJust because gun owners tend to oppose regulations as brought forward by gun control groups, it does not prove the non-existence of regulations/measures that gun rights advocates would be okay with. This wasn't the result of regulations. This was a business deciding to carry a gun with an additional safety measure. The fear was that bringing attention to such a product might lead to legislation therefor it had to be opposed immediately. This almost put the gun store out of business. The result is that the market for any type of safety improvement to guns is effectively zero. Gun purchasers set the market. There was no "might lead to legislation" the legislation was already there. The legislation was written as a time bomb to go off as soon as the gun went on sale. California did a similar thing with microstamping only they wrote that time bomb to go off as soon as the technology was no longer encumbered by patents (nobody even makes such a gun but any new gun is already required to have it.) Since that whole ordeal, the NJAG made a press release stating the firearm in question was not restrictive / user-selective enough (it's actually not biometric as you stated, btw) to trigger the law. Consequently, people generally don't care about the thing anymore. Again, though, just because I don't agree with politicians writing laws mandating technology that doesn't exist (it's pretty clear they are doing it because it doesn't exist and not for safety reasons) doesn't prove the non-existence of regulations that I agree with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,294 #60 April 7, 2015 QuoteThere was no "might lead to legislation" the legislation was already there. In a different state than the gunshop is doing business in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #61 April 7, 2015 I am aware of what the issue we are discussing is. I am making a point. Do you accept 90/day as the price for driving your car? It is a simple yes or no question. Derek V Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #62 April 7, 2015 SkyDekkerQuoteThere was no "might lead to legislation" the legislation was already there. In a different state than the gunshop is doing business in. Indeed! That's how stupid the NJ law is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #63 April 7, 2015 The point he was making, and you either missed or refuse to acknowledge, is that the US population IS saved by virtue of our citizens being armed under the 2nd Amendment. A quick look at world history proves the point....Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,294 #64 April 7, 2015 Quoteis that the US population IS saved by virtue of our citizens being armed under the 2nd Amendment. A quick look at world history proves the point.... Not sure how you get to that? Canada does quite alright without a similar 2nd Amendment. Iraq's population was armed, yet Saddam had no problem rising to and staying in power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #65 April 7, 2015 SkyDekkerQuoteNo Sandy Hook has little to do with the price of out 2nd Amendment Thank you for taking the bait to show that your argument is being driven by emotion, which is exactly what derek was trying to point out. There is a price to be paid for everything, including the easy availability of guns. Tell me one politician who doesn't use gun control based on emotions. They wait until the next tragedy to use that as fodder for their agenda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #66 April 7, 2015 GlitchThe point he was making, and you either missed or refuse to acknowledge, is that the US population IS saved by virtue of our citizens being armed under the 2nd Amendment. A quick look at world history proves the point.... Ummmm - NO.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #67 April 7, 2015 regulator***QuoteNo Sandy Hook has little to do with the price of out 2nd Amendment Thank you for taking the bait to show that your argument is being driven by emotion, which is exactly what derek was trying to point out. There is a price to be paid for everything, including the easy availability of guns. Tell me one politician who doesn't use gun control based on emotions. They wait until the next tragedy to use that as fodder for their agenda. Well, apparently it surprises YOU, but a lot of NORMAL people in addition to politicians have an emotional response when a loony gunman shoots 20 little children and 6 adult staff members dead.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #68 April 7, 2015 True, but he used rather sadistic tactics to maintain power, and the Iraqi citizens didn't live in anything resembling a 'free' society. The 2nd provides it's citizens a 'last resort' if you will against the tyranny of govt. An armed populace is a free populace.Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #69 April 7, 2015 Ummm.... YES. Go HERE and do a bit of reading. Some folks learn from history, some don't.Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,827 #70 April 7, 2015 GlitchUmmm.... YES. Go HERE and do a bit of reading. Some folks learn from history, some don't. What a load of rubbish.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #71 April 7, 2015 rushmc***QuoteYou miss my point. Their is a price to be paid. You do not want to admit that you are willing to pay that price for driving your car. No, I get your point completely. I have made the same point here before. Sandy Hook is the price you pay for your 2nd amendment. That doesn't mean you just have to accept the price and move on. Like you say, in skydiving a price is paid as well. Yet we still try and regulate to some degree. We don't just shrug our shoulders and go, meh, just the price we pay. No Sandy Hook has little to do with the price of out 2nd Amendment But the link needs to be made to try and make the argument you are trying to make Sandy Hook was more about support for those with mental health issues Not being able to help them has risen because of medical privacy issues Medical privacy issues were put in place for a specific disease/issue Do you happen to know what disease this is? The one that pushed HIPPA laws being put into place? This fine country moved beyond warehousing mentally ill people. Turns out that unless you present an immediate danger to self or others, you are free (yes, that word that forms the root of freedom) to not get care. This isn't the days of lobotomizing people for personality issues. Are you a closet Kennedy? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #72 April 7, 2015 lawrocket******QuoteYou miss my point. Their is a price to be paid. You do not want to admit that you are willing to pay that price for driving your car. No, I get your point completely. I have made the same point here before. Sandy Hook is the price you pay for your 2nd amendment. That doesn't mean you just have to accept the price and move on. Like you say, in skydiving a price is paid as well. Yet we still try and regulate to some degree. We don't just shrug our shoulders and go, meh, just the price we pay. No Sandy Hook has little to do with the price of out 2nd Amendment But the link needs to be made to try and make the argument you are trying to make Sandy Hook was more about support for those with mental health issues Not being able to help them has risen because of medical privacy issues Medical privacy issues were put in place for a specific disease/issue Do you happen to know what disease this is? The one that pushed HIPPA laws being put into place? This fine country moved beyond warehousing mentally ill people. Turns out that unless you present an immediate danger to self or others, you are free (yes, that word that forms the root of freedom) to not get care. This isn't the days of lobotomizing people for personality issues. Are you a closet Kennedy? All I was doing was stating what the problem was. I don't think you can find any where in my posts where I indicate Iwant to go back to what you reference here. That's really not like you."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #73 April 7, 2015 QuoteMedical privacy issues were put in place for a specific disease/issue Do you happen to know what disease this is? The one that pushed HIPPA laws being put into place? I don't know. Which disease was it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #74 April 8, 2015 OK, you don't really want to discuss the issue. Never mind then. Derek V Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #75 April 8, 2015 Long time no see, Derek. How you been? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
