Florida bars doctor advice to patients

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Is there any evidence of an ongoing problem of pediatricians asking inappropriate questions about firearms that require legislative intervention?

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

I guess if you are presenting yourself as an arrogant 'know it all' (white coated doctor) then you just feel qualified to opine on everything, and pretend you actually know what's best in every situation. They should stick to medicine and leave the other stuff to professionals in their respective field of expertise. I guess that wouldn't sit well with the usual arrogant attitude of medical doctors, who view themselves as godlike as compared to their subjects(patients)

The truth is that there is an agenda here, being promulgated by the (what was it, the "society of pediatricians" or something like that), fueled by a wave of anti gun sentiment. It makes them feel good to be a part of that.

So how long ago did your wife run off with a doctor?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[lawrocket 3]

SkyDekker

Is there any evidence of an ongoing problem of pediatricians asking inappropriate questions about firearms that require legislative intervention?

Not that I know of. All that is needed is a perceived problem that sufficiently excited the population. You know that. Say there is a problem and pass a law. The law then caused problems. Blame others for the problems and pass more laws designed to address the problems the law created

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 0]

SkyDekker

Is there any evidence of an ongoing problem of pediatricians asking inappropriate questions about firearms that require legislative intervention?

From the Court opinion of trial Judge Cooke (this was the initial ruling striking down the law, which the Court of Appeals later overturned) :

Quote

The legislative debates on this bill reveal that the legislature relied heavily on anecdotal information about physicians asking patients about firearm ownership, physicians misrepresenting that Medicaid would not pay out claims if the patient did not answer questions regarding firearms, or physicians refusing to conduct examinations on patients who refused to answer questions about firearm ownership.
It does not appear that the Florida legislature relied on any studies, research, or statistics on physicians’ practices or patients’ experiences on this issue.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Quote

your missing the point in your zeal to bad mouth the country - It's more likely the reason for the (recall I said 'over reaction') proposal is likely a concern over the base intent of organizations that move beyond the medical treatment and want to advocate for political policy

Because that is a large part of what these organizations do, they are a fancy lobby group. They also do research and provide policy statements on the legalization of MJ.

Should we ban doctors in Colorado from asking parents if they smoke MJ and then let them give some advise regarding the safety aspect of doing that around your newborn?

If you don't like the position of the AAP, membership isn't mandatory. There are ABP certified pediatricians who are not members of AAP.

If you strongly believe that a doctor is putting their political viewpoints before your care, you need to find a better doctor.

Banning doctors from asking questions because you disgree with the political viewpoints of their "lobby group" is really stupid.

are you arguing with me? because we agree on every single point here, and I don't want people to read your replies to me and think I don't

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

> That's likely true (speaking mainly to the bolded part.) But we're talking about the ability of a random MD to be qualified to give a RANDOM firearms owner advice - and the odds of that are much higher.

well, anyway - after reading this thread, I'm certainly not paying any attention to an MD trying to give me any advice on wiring or plumbing in my home

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

are you arguing with me?

Nah, was more in response to your dig about my zeal to badmouth the country.

[Andy9o8 0]

rehmwa

***> That's likely true (speaking mainly to the bolded part.) But we're talking about the ability of a random MD to be qualified to give a RANDOM firearms owner advice - and the odds of that are much higher.

well, anyway - after reading this thread, I'm certainly not paying any attention to an MD trying to give me any advice on wiring or plumbing in my home

That said, I doubt you'd argue with a pediatrician reminding a parent to child-proof cabinets and electrical outlets, or not to set the water heater too high to avoid risk of scalding. To my view, stuff like that is just part and parcel of responsible whole-patient doctoring.

[kallend 1,623]

Andy9o8

******> That's likely true (speaking mainly to the bolded part.) But we're talking about the ability of a random MD to be qualified to give a RANDOM firearms owner advice - and the odds of that are much higher.

well, anyway - after reading this thread, I'm certainly not paying any attention to an MD trying to give me any advice on wiring or plumbing in my home

That said, I doubt you'd argue with a pediatrician reminding a parent to child-proof cabinets and electrical outlets, or not to set the water heater too high to avoid risk of scalding. To my view, stuff like that is just part and parcel of responsible whole-patient doctoring.

Sorry, Andy, but the gun owners on this thread are adamant that you need to be a chemical engineer in order to advise new parents to keep bleach out of the reach of toddlers, you need to be an electrical engineer in order to advise new parents to put safety plugs on electrical outlets, and a member of the US Olympic swim team to remind parents to keep unsupervised toddlers away from swimming pools. No-one else could possibly have the necessary expertise.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

dpreguy

The truth is that there is an agenda here, being promulgated by the (what was it, the "society of pediatricians" or something like that), fueled by a wave of anti gun sentiment. It makes them feel good to be a part of that.

I fail to see how telling parents the TRUTH about the risks of having guns in the home when you have small children represents an anti-gun agenda. Seems to me it just represents a pro-safety agenda.

Quote

If a doctor asked me such a question I'd tell him to fuck off and go back to being a medical doctor.

I bet many of the parents whose children shot themselves, their friends, their siblings or other family members felt the same way, right up until they had to deal with their conscience for the rest of their lives.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

Andy9o8

That said, I doubt you'd argue with a pediatrician reminding a parent to child-proof cabinets and electrical outlets, or not to set the water heater too high to avoid risk of scalding. To my view, stuff like that is just part and parcel of responsible whole-patient doctoring.

no, it would be appreciated just as much as if my mailman did, or if the dentist, or a lawyer. and just as unnecessary, but good intentions go a long ways. Each of those people is also welcome to opine about global warming as well. Or recommend a good restaurant in town. And I'd still not tell him if I own guns, where the jewelry is locked, or which window is the bathroom the women in my house shower in.

Not everyone thinks that all roles in society have to be Politically correct social worker roles that parrot the party line. I find that just as bad as everyone being a little nosy church lady telling us all how to live.

"Individuals" can do as they like and be listened to or not.

Once again -

1 - no laws are needed that prohibit asking questions and giving useful advice. Even if it's bad advice, or partisan hackery.

2 - that said - it's just as bad when lobbying organizations try to mandate their membership to take on these things in their practice even when not necessary in the fulfillment of their roles

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[headoverheels 291]

Shotgun

***>You have a solution?

Sure. Let doctors ask. Let patients refuse to answer. Problem solved.

From the link you posted, one patient was told she would have to find another doctor when she refused to answer her doctor's question about guns. Do you agree with a doctor being able to refuse treatment if a patient refuses to answer?

In the current world of online reviews, sure, make my day.

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

I fail to see how telling parents the TRUTH about the risks of having guns in the home when you have small children represents an anti-gun agenda. Seems to me it just represents a pro-safety agenda.

Keep up. Doctors don't need to an inventory of my property. They are always welcome to ask but don't require an answer. It doesn't have to be legislated, but it's certainly good manners that a doctor doesn't attempt to get the information without the parent present.


there was an episode of the Simpson's where Homer and Marge had to go to 'parenting' training. they gave great tips on the use of screen doors, putting food IN the refrigerator, not driving with the baby on the roof of the car, or letting a child nap in a shut deep freeze, etc etc. All really good advice.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

you need to be an electrical engineer in order to advise new parents to put safety plugs on electrical outlets,

Doctor to parent "And....I can't stress this enough. It VERY important to take the plugs OUT of the plastic packaging before installation."

That'll be $800


John - I 'advised' your doctor to give you a few tips about structural engineering, and EM field vector calculations, and water heater inspections. Just to be safe.

For the children

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,623]

rehmwa

***you need to be an electrical engineer in order to advise new parents to put safety plugs on electrical outlets,

Doctor to parent "And....I can't stress this enough. It VERY important to take the plugs OUT of the plastic packaging before installation."

That'll be $800


John - I 'advised' your doctor to give you a few tips about structural engineering, and EM field vector calculations, and water heater inspections. Just to be safe.

For the children

As always, I love your selective editing. Have you considered getting a job with Fox News.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,400]

>Doctors are qualified to give gun safety tips? Let me begin with laughter here.
>Gee, the all-knowing doctor can give advice on all sorts of topics? Driving?

Yes. When new parents leave the hospital they get advised they need to get a car seat - if they are driving, of course. (What do those doctors think they are, automotive engineers? Geez.)

>Tool safety?

The third time your patient comes in with a nail through his foot - might make sense for the doctor to suggest a higher level of care with his tools, yes.

>I guess if you are presenting yourself as an arrogant 'know it all' (white coated
>doctor) then you just feel qualified to opine on everything . . . .

So they are like . . . riggers? I hear some riggers even have opinions on what kind of gear people should use! You'd think they were gear designers. They should stick to what they know - packing reserves - and leave the other recommendations to the experts.

>The truth is that there is an agenda here, being promulgated by the (what was
>it, the "society of pediatricians" or something like that), fueled by a wave of anti
>gun sentiment.

Yep. Just like physicians have an anti-smoking agenda, fueled by a wave of anti-tobacco sentiment. They also have an anti-obesity and pro-exercise agenda, no doubt fueled by a political hatred of La-Z-Boys and Krispy Kreme donuts.

>If a doctor asked me such a question I'd tell him to fuck off and go back
>to being a medical doctor.

And you should be perfectly free to do that. (Of course, after being told to fuck off a few times, the doctor is also perfectly free to decide to not see you any more.)

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

As always, I love your selective editing. Have you considered getting a job with Fox News.

action/reaction - it goes with your tunnel vision

have a fun weekend - I wish I was scuba diving off of Belize

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

whether you have one piece of Lego or many pieces of Lego, they're all Lego.

Oh ya, who says so?

normiss

Interesting.
I've always thought of them as Legos.

Ya, it's slang for lego bricks - nothing wrong with that.

Shotgun

I think it's "Legos" for most of us American heathens. But then we were never known for our proper use of the English language.

Well, Lego is of Danish origin and therefore outside English Grammar Nazi jurisdiction...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[lawrocket 3]

Bill:

Does your family doctor know you skydive? If so, has that physician apprised you of the various risks of skydiving?

If so, how correct was it? You think a whuffo doctor would know as much about skydiving risks as an anti-gun doctor knows about firearm safety?

And kallend: should gun sellers warn gun or ammo purchasers about the risks of iatrogenic injury or death? There's plenty of evidence out there that medical errors cause in excess of 100k deaths per year in the US.

Who provides that warning? Should the NRA put forth a policy encouraging it's members to warn people of the known risks of medical treatment? The truth?

Think that there would be plenty of people outraged over the obviously political maneuver? Perhaps saying "who does the NRA think it is moving in on medicine?"

View the opposite perspective.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

***

The truth is that there is an agenda here, being promulgated by the (what was it, the "society of pediatricians" or something like that), fueled by a wave of anti gun sentiment. It makes them feel good to be a part of that.

I fail to see how telling parents the TRUTH about the risks of having guns in the home when you have small children represents an anti-gun agenda. Seems to me it just represents a pro-safety agenda.

Quote

If a doctor asked me such a question I'd tell him to fuck off and go back to being a medical doctor.

I bet many of the parents whose children shot themselves, their friends, their siblings or other family members felt the same way, right up until they had to deal with their conscience for the rest of their lives.

Would you support gun safety education in schools as much as you support gun safety education in a doctor's office?

Given how guns are such a big part of our culture, it only seems proper and fitting that we have firearm safety classes in our schools where kids can learn to exercise their constitutional right in a safe an effective manner.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Does your family doctor know you skydive? If so, has that physician apprised you of the various risks of skydiving?

If so, how correct was it? You think a whuffo doctor would know as much about skydiving risks as an anti-gun doctor knows about firearm safety?

Hey, even a whuffo doctor would know that the most effective way to prevent skydiving accidents is to not skydive.

[Shotgun 1]

This thread has made me curious, so I have a question for those of you who have young children. (I have no children.) It seems that there are an awful lot of things that pose a danger to kids. Do pediatricians actually attempt to go over all of this stuff? Or do they give you some sort of pamphlet that covers the most common dangers? Or recommend parenting classes which would allow more time to thoroughly cover this stuff?

From the experience I have with doctors, they seem to be pretty limited on time, so I am wondering how much parents rely on doctors (rather than other sources) as a source of safety information for their children?

[lawrocket 3]

Shotgun

Quote

Does your family doctor know you skydive? If so, has that physician apprised you of the various risks of skydiving?

If so, how correct was it? You think a whuffo doctor would know as much about skydiving risks as an anti-gun doctor knows about firearm safety?

Hey, even a whuffo doctor would know that the most effective way to prevent skydiving accidents is to not skydive.

And the easiest way to avoid dying from a gunshot is not to get shot.

In he intervening time I've actually thought that doctors can offer some decent advice. Like if there's an ear infection don't go skydiving. Or even a sinus infection can cause some nastiness. Or a person with COPD may want to reconsider the effects of altitude.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

Shotgun

This thread has made me curious, so I have a question for those of you who have young children. (I have no children.) It seems that there are an awful lot of things that pose a danger to kids. Do pediatricians actually attempt to go over all of this stuff? Or do they give you some sort of pamphlet that covers the most common dangers? Or recommend parenting classes which would allow more time to thoroughly cover this stuff?

From the experience I have with doctors, they seem to be pretty limited on time, so I am wondering how much parents rely on doctors (rather than other sources) as a source of safety information for their children?

My experience comes from common sense and mistakes. For example, my first born called 911 by chewing on a cordless phone he crawled to. He wasn't even one year old. Most stuff is covered by making small mistakes, letting the kids learn on their own, etc. the deadly risks I managed. The non-deadly ones is let them learn on their own. Sure they'll get little owies and stuff but they learn. I used the term "benign neglect" to describe it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 1,623]

lawrocket

Bill:

Does your family doctor know you skydive? If so, has that physician apprised you of the various risks of skydiving?

If so, how correct was it? You think a whuffo doctor would know as

The USA is unusual in not requiring a medical sign-off for skydiving. However, PADI requires a medical statement for scuba, and the FAA for obtaining even a private pilot license.

So yes, it seems that many organizations do expect physicians to advise on activities that involve risk. And not even you can deny that unsecured guns pose a risk to unsupervised toddlers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.