Do you remember making the choice about your sexuality?

[jclalor 12]

Dr Ben Carson believes it's a choice. I really never remembered my sexuality being much of a choice.

What say you?



http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/politics/ben-carson-prisons-gay-choice/

[lawrocket 3]

As much as I have liked Dr. Carson I think he is just plain wrong. On multiple levels. First is the idea that he actually made the choice to be straight instead of gay. Second is the implication that he could have been gay quite easily. And third is the insinuation that making the gay choice is wrong.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[narcimund 0]

lawrocket

First is the idea that he actually made the choice to be straight instead of gay. Second is the implication that he could have been gay quite easily.

I don't believe the "gay is a choice" argument is represented correctly in this type of rebuttal. They're not saying that heterosexuals made the choice to be heterosexual.

Rather their position is that everyone is born heterosexual, but occasionally a few unfortunate souls make a regretable decision to abandon this default status to become homo. Nobody decides to become hetero (because everyone gets that for free at birth) but some people do decide later to convert to homo.

Therefore the standard jibe of, "When did you decide to become heterosexual?" is essentially attacking a strawman.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[jclalor 12]

narcimund

***First is the idea that he actually made the choice to be straight instead of gay. Second is the implication that he could have been gay quite easily.

I don't believe the "gay is a choice" argument is represented correctly in this type of rebuttal. They're not saying that heterosexuals made the choice to be heterosexual.

Rather their position is that everyone is born heterosexual, but occasionally a few unfortunate souls make a regretable decision to abandon this default status to become homo. Nobody decides to become hetero (because everyone gets that for free at birth) but some people do decide later to convert to homo.

Therefore the standard jibe of, "When did you decide to become heterosexual?" is essentially attacking a strawman.

[RonD1120 58]

A decision based on socialization.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[tkhayes 125]

well Spock - that sounds pretty fucked up actually......

And I would go so far as to say that you have absolutely zero real evidence to back your claim up from any reasonable source of science or medical/social data. this is an opinion.

You are making the assumption that everyone is born straight....incorrect....or at least you/we have no way of absolutely knowing that - therefore any conclusion you draw from such a claim is false.

there are plenty of other species that demonstrate from time to time , homosexual or at least 'other-than-heterosexual' tendencies. therefore being born 'gay' is absolutely entirely possible given that many of these other species do not make 'choices', or at least have very limited 'choice-making' abilities compared to man.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

narcimund

...Rather their position is that everyone is born heterosexual, but occasionally a few unfortunate souls make a regretable decision to abandon this default status to become homo. Nobody decides to become hetero (because everyone gets that for free at birth) but some people do decide later to convert to homo...

That's odd.

I wasn't "Born hetero" by any means. When I was young, I thought girls were "icky."

Somewhere at the start of my teens, that changed.

A lot.

They weren't "icky" anymore, they were soft and smelled good, and made me feel "funny" inside.

And I like that a lot.

I never made a conscious choice that I liked girls, it just was.

And if you look at the anecdotes about kids who are raised in a strong religious environment that pounds "being gay is a sin" into them, kids that pray to that god to "not be gay", kids who commit suicide because god doesn't make them straight, then you might realize that it's not a choice.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[champu 1]

I think you guys are missing the point of his post.

narcimund is not arguing that everyone is born straight. He's explaining that, in his estimation, most people who think being gay is a choice think that everyone is born straight. He's trying to advise the audience on how better to argue with people who think being gay is a choice.

I get this type of reaction quite a bit around here too. I try to tell some people, "hey, that's actually not going to persuade our opponents, you should tr-" and before I can finish I'm being told that me and my elk can go fuck ourselves.

[ryoder 1,381]

champu

I think you guys are missing the point of his post.

There is an understatement!
He hasn't posted much lately, so they must be unfamiliar with him.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Stumpy 256]

Ah - I thought so!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 2,396]

I didn't. I don't think most people make that choice; it is simply their nature. A few people are able to make that choice for themselves. That seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

champu

I think you guys are missing the point of his post.

narcimund is not arguing that everyone is born straight. He's explaining that, in his estimation, most people who think being gay is a choice think that everyone is born straight. He's trying to advise the audience on how better to argue with people who think being gay is a choice.

I get this type of reaction quite a bit around here too. I try to tell some people, "hey, that's actually not going to persuade our opponents, you should tr-" and before I can finish I'm being told that me and my elk can go fuck ourselves.

Ok, I went back and re-read it.

Now I see that he wasn't making the argument himself, just pointing out that the anti-gay crowd does.

It's still a "cop-out" argument.

Basically, the antis are saying "Because I was born this way, everyone must have been."

And they refuse to listen to anyone else. Including solid science.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,121]

ryoder

***I think you guys are missing the point of his post.

There is an understatement!
He hasn't posted much lately, so they must be unfamiliar with him.

lol, so true...but funny to watch.

[Andy9o8 0]

RonD1120

A decision based on socialization.

Socializing works both ways. If your proposition were correct, then logically people wouldn't "choose to be gay" in extremely socially conservative societies in which being outed would mean not only their being ostracized, but being brutally killed, like in most Arab and sub-Saharan African societies.

By way of rather brutal examples, I rather doubt that people would willfully choose to subject themselves to the risk of

THIS, or

THIS, or

THIS.

[lawrocket 3]

From one of the articles you printed:

"Though in Istanbul, fear of persecution continues to haunt Nour, who asked us to conceal his identity as he waits and hopes for asylum in America and continues to campaign for rights for people who are LGBT -- lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans."

Why would he want to come to America? Doesn't he know there is a war on gays here?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 0]

lawrocket

From one of the articles you printed:

"Though in Istanbul, fear of persecution continues to haunt Nour, who asked us to conceal his identity as he waits and hopes for asylum in America and continues to campaign for rights for people who are LGBT -- lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans."

Why would he want to come to America? Doesn't he know there is a war on gays here?

Yeah, but there's also a war on Christmas, so that makes it worth it.

[piisfish 135]

ryoder

***I think you guys are missing the point of his post.

There is an understatement!
He hasn't posted much lately, so they must be unfamiliar with him.unless he converted to antigay

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jclalor 12]

lawrocket

From one of the articles you printed:

"Though in Istanbul, fear of persecution continues to haunt Nour, who asked us to conceal his identity as he waits and hopes for asylum in America and continues to campaign for rights for people who are LGBT -- lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans."

Why would he want to come to America? Doesn't he know there is a war on gays here?

While shopping in the Alleppo souk in 2007, I had the owner of a small silver buiness invite to the back of his store for Tea. While he was preparing the tea, he whispered to me that he was gay. I never quite got the feeling that he was hitting on me, he just seemed releaved that he could finally tell someone. He told me if anyone there found out about him, his life would be ruined

That was a very interesting experience, unfortunatly, the souk, that did have the claim to fame as being the longest running market in the world, has been lost to the war.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

I remember making the choice to be gay.

I was into boobies and such, but then one day in college I decided to give cock and balls a try.

October 19, 2008 was the day I chose to be gay.

[turtlespeed 212]

JohnnyMarko

I remember making the choice to be gay.

I was into boobies and such, but then one day in college I decided to give cock and balls a try.

October 19, 2008 was the day I chose to be gay.

Is it a once in a lifetime opportunity, or could you choose to be straight if you wanted to?

Can you be for it before you are against it? Are you a flip flopped.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnnyMarko 1]

turtlespeed

***I remember making the choice to be gay.

I was into boobies and such, but then one day in college I decided to give cock and balls a try.

October 19, 2008 was the day I chose to be gay.

Is it a once in a lifetime opportunity, or could you choose to be straight if you wanted to?

Can you be for it before you are against it? Are you a flip flopped.

It's once in a lifetime. I can't do it again.

Ask my boyfriend if I flip flop

[jclalor 12]

JohnnyMarko

I remember making the choice to be gay.

I was into boobies and such, but then one day in college I decided to give cock and balls a try.

October 19, 2008 was the day I chose to be gay.

One more reason why my kids won't be going to college.

[Andy9o8 0]

jclalor

***I remember making the choice to be gay.

I was into boobies and such, but then one day in college I decided to give cock and balls a try.

October 19, 2008 was the day I chose to be gay.

One more reason why my kids won't be going to college.

[normiss 622]

I never knew that colleges are where gay starts.
The things you learn in SC.

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

I didn't. I don't think most people make that choice; it is simply their nature. A few people are able to make that choice for themselves. That seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

the idea that it might just be different for different people is not allowed. careful with that, if you don't toe the PC line (or the zealot line), you'll be shunned.

shunned I tells ya


Actually I suspect your comment is likely dead on. However, I contend it shouldn't matter. In short - I don't care. It's not my business on how people are (or choose to be), it's their right to live their life for themselves.

If it doesn't directly hurt me, or cost me, it's not my business how people go about pursuing happiness (sexuality, if they aren't ready to be a parent, if they like to own guns, it they like to buy old fashioned light bulbs, if they want to cut down a tree on their property, etc etc etc)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants