Is Sharia worse than Halakah?

[regulator 0]

Andy9o8

***Well, the fun part of this it while the "Muslim Haters" scream that Sharia law is being put in place in the US, they conveniently ignore the fact that there are "Jewish Police" operating openly in NYC.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/praise-scorn-hasidic-patrols-target-minorities-article-1.158630

They don't seem to be running around enforcing Halakah, but they do seem to be controversial.

Sometimes neighborhood watch groups work well, but other times they go overboard (and unlawful) like this and should be reined back in. As I recall sometimes the Guardian Angels deserved (or at least received) similar criticism.

At least LEO agencies do psych screening to weed-out the wack jobs.
Yeah, right. Where's my sarcasm emoticon?

Man that goes back quite a bit. Whatever happened to the guardian angels of NYC?

[Bolas 5]

wmw999

My objection is to singling out specific groups, rather than identifying objectionable behavior.

Wendy P.

My objection is to intentionally ignoring the specific groups that the objectionable behaviors are coming from, along with those that support those behaviors.

It's basic triage, you focus on the worst first.

You've got two groups of people, one with guns shooting innocent people, the other with a baseball bats hitting innocent people. Who do you target first? Additionally, the baseball bat group may back down/surrender depending on the force used to neutralize the ones with guns.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wmw999 2,120]

The problem is that you're making someone's religion the most important thing about them; generally that's because one is the least familiar with it.

Have you ever had someone come at you with a gun? Are Muslims in America regularly stalking people? Were you scared of the Irish when they were targeting people, and plenty of Americans sympathized with them?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[lawrocket 3]

wmw999

The problem is that you're making someone's religion the most important thing about them; generally that's because one is the least familiar with it.



Wendy P.

When you have a Muslim Capitol Day by definition the "Muslim" becomes the most important thing about the person. It becomes for that day the key constituent of that person's identity.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Bolas 5]

wmw999

The problem is that you're making someone's religion the most important thing about them; generally that's because one is the least familiar with it.

And you're intentionally ignoring that association. Do Muslim terrorists make all Muslims bad? No. What makes them bad is what, if anything, they have in common with those terrorists beyond whom they worship.

Do they agree with what the terrorists are doing?
Do they promote/support them?
Do they support Sharia?
Etc.

Quote

Have you ever had someone come at you with a gun? Are Muslims in America regularly stalking people? Were you scared of the Irish when they were targeting people, and plenty of Americans sympathized with them?

Wendy P.

No. Many are segregating themselves and as seen in other countries, once they have enough numbers they get bold. The IRA, as bad as they were, had a realistic non religion based goal. "Death to all infidels" is not.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,396]

>It's basic triage, you focus on the worst first.

>You've got two groups of people, one with guns shooting innocent people, the other
>with a baseball bats hitting innocent people. Who do you target first? Additionally, the
>baseball bat group may back down/surrender depending on the force used to neutralize
>the ones with guns.

So you'd be OK going after people who protest in public, since protests often lead to violence? (and are provably more violent than people who do not protest)

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>It's basic triage, you focus on the worst first.

>You've got two groups of people, one with guns shooting innocent people, the other
>with a baseball bats hitting innocent people. Who do you target first? Additionally, the
>baseball bat group may back down/surrender depending on the force used to neutralize
>the ones with guns.

So you'd be OK going after people who protest in public, since protests often lead to violence? (and are provably more violent than people who do not protest)

IF there was no actual violence to defend against elsewhere and there was a chance or history of escalation to violence or inciting violence[email], would have personnel at the ready to ensure/enforce the protest stayed peaceful.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[jakee 1,254]

Bolas

***My objection is to singling out specific groups, rather than identifying objectionable behavior.

Wendy P.

My objection is to intentionally ignoring the specific groups that the objectionable behaviors are coming from, along with those that support those behaviors.


Right... how specific (or rather non-specific) are the groups you want to focus on?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,623]

I don't view it as a contest between religions to see who has the most stupid followers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bolas 5]

jakee

******My objection is to singling out specific groups, rather than identifying objectionable behavior.

Wendy P.

My objection is to intentionally ignoring the specific groups that the objectionable behaviors are coming from, along with those that support those behaviors.


Right... how specific (or rather non-specific) are the groups you want to focus on?

We've got all the data, just process it and look for all commonalities not excluding any to avoid "hurting a groups feelings."

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wmw999 2,120]

Ok. Nearly all of them are male.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Bolas 5]

wmw999

Ok. Nearly all of them are male.

Wendy P.

That's one commonality, keep going.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[masterblaster72 0]

wmw999

Yet somehow there are all kinds of objections to Sharia, and you never, ever, hear about objections to Halakah.

...

So what makes them different, other than that one is "the evil Moozlim" and the other "the noble Jew."

I wouldn't call it "evil" vs. "noble" -- more like austere vs. flexible. With some exceptions, observers of Halacha generally...

...don't proselytize or impose their beliefs on others outside their faith
...don't threaten others with violence as justified by their belief system
...don't impose extreme punishment or kill members of their own faith for falling short in their degree of observance
...don't get offended and consequently enraged to the point of violence as readily as those who enforce Sharia
...continually question their beliefs as part of their faith
...don't have calls to prayer for the whole neighborhood to hear
...adapt to the cultures and times they live in.

Interesting question, but I think if one is even superficially familiar with both the answer is fairly obvious.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

So what makes them different, other than that one is "the evil Moozlim" and the other "the noble Jew."

That's really about it.

The Jews have a much better PR firm and have many families and groups who have settled in the US at an earlier date then the Muslims. In that time they have acquired much more power then the Muslims ,Both in political terms, Media, and financial.

So not surprising that they will use and flex the power to sway public opinion. They have been extremely successful at swaying public opinion to an almost one sided view until a little thing called the internet came in to play. Now people can see the truth off course some are already brain washed past the point of no return.

In NY when the Jewish religious police(WHO HAVE ZERO AUTHORITY) attacked a biker it was news for about 5 secs.

If it was a Muslim Religious police who attacked an American biker think of the uproar the questions you would see from all media out lets. They would make it seem that NY was taken over by evil Muslims who want to change your way of life. Ted Nugent would make a statement and it would get blasted over and over again.

Same with any Israeli conflict, NPR spend ten minutes humanizing ONE Israeli casualty, and just casually dismisses 9 Palestinians also died (never says anything other then a number, or that they were mostly woman and kids). Then you hear that one of their sponsors is the American Jewish Society. So not hard to see why.

It is all easily understandable , but sad that most are not aware that the view presented is often very one sided. No different then when a politician is swayed by who his donators are.

Look at Nathanyahu? Here is a guy who is itching to start a war (remember the bomb graph at the UN). He is the prime minister of a country that has nuclear weapons and refuses to sign any treaty. What has he been trying to do?, start a war with Iran for trying to get nuclear power. I mean the fact that people just don't see the obvious issue is insane.


We look like hypocrites and have been for more then 60 years now because of our blind support for Israel, They have worked against the US, spied against us, stolen secrets, yet we still support them. Why?? Simple the issues mentioned above. The Jewish community in the US is very powerful, and the people are very easily mislead.

The reason Americans are so easily mislead, is they believe what they are being told. Most other countries have such obviously shitty governments that it is known fact that you cant trust them and they will lie. Americans are just beginning to realize this.

So these are the reasons you don't hear the same uproar. Hypocrisy, Media control, and an ill informed populace

Also the Holocaust card that the Jewish community has relied on, You criticize Jews even when it is factual even when you have video you must just hate Jews. So its a very powerful and dismissive tool that is used very often.

Just try this in a bar, Go and talk about how you saw a video of Muslims killing kids and be harsh , do the same thing with the IDF both stories true see the reaction. See how weird it gets when you Rightfully and with the same evidence criticize the Jewish IDF. Thats what social brain washing is.

We do the same thing With black and white for different reasons

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

lawrocket

I think the issue is one of submitting themselves. Obviously, kids have no choice. But if an adult wants out of Halaka they can get out.

Sharia has been different. If in an area where Sharia is the rule you must submit to it. Practitioners of Sharia advocate for its imposition on people. And if a 14 year old girl speaks out against it then she risks being assassinated.

Really in all of the Muslim world? Or the tiny segment you watched on the news?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Darius11

***I think the issue is one of submitting themselves. Obviously, kids have no choice. But if an adult wants out of Halaka they can get out.

Sharia has been different. If in an area where Sharia is the rule you must submit to it. Practitioners of Sharia advocate for its imposition on people. And if a 14 year old girl speaks out against it then she risks being assassinated.

Really in all of the Muslim world? Or the tiny segment you watched on the news?

It's reality in Afghanistan. There have been a large number of women assassinated. Usually for advocating for women's rights. Or for advocating education of women.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Bolas 5]

Do you have any examples of Jews restricting or denying basic education of their own people?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wmw999 2,120]

Again, google Kiryas Joel.

From the article:

Quote

The 2000 census also reports that only 6.2% of village residents spoke English at home, one of the lowest such percentages in the United States. Over 89% of residents spoke Yiddish at home, while 2.3% spoke Hebrew. Of the Yiddish-speaking population in 2000, 46% spoke English "not well" or "not at all." Overall, including those who primarily spoke Hebrew and European languages as well as primary Yiddish speakers, 46% of Kiryas Joel residents speak English "not well" or "not at all."

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Don't have calls to prayer for the whole neighborhood to hear

Right, that's more akin to Christian churches that sound church bells on Sunday that can be heard for miles around.
You weaken your message when you cross the line into being ethnically judgmental.

[Bolas 5]

wmw999

Again, google Kiryas Joel.

From the article:

Quote

The 2000 census also reports that only 6.2% of village residents spoke English at home, one of the lowest such percentages in the United States. Over 89% of residents spoke Yiddish at home, while 2.3% spoke Hebrew. Of the Yiddish-speaking population in 2000, 46% spoke English "not well" or "not at all." Overall, including those who primarily spoke Hebrew and European languages as well as primary Yiddish speakers, 46% of Kiryas Joel residents speak English "not well" or "not at all."

Wendy P.

Nothing mentioned about them not being able to read and write, or restrictions placed/forbidding them from learning to speak English.

Of course the fact you didn't/couldn't mention a Jewish country or state repressing it's own jewish citizens also speaks volumes.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[jclalor 12]

Bolas

***Again, google Kiryas Joel.

From the article:

Quote

The 2000 census also reports that only 6.2% of village residents spoke English at home, one of the lowest such percentages in the United States. Over 89% of residents spoke Yiddish at home, while 2.3% spoke Hebrew. Of the Yiddish-speaking population in 2000, 46% spoke English "not well" or "not at all." Overall, including those who primarily spoke Hebrew and European languages as well as primary Yiddish speakers, 46% of Kiryas Joel residents speak English "not well" or "not at all."

Wendy P.

Nothing mentioned about them not being able to read and write, or restrictions placed/forbidding them from learning to speak English.

Of course the fact you didn't/couldn't mention a Jewish country or state repressing it's own jewish citizens also speaks volumes.

Not allowing freedom of movement is repressive.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/30/israeli-airline-ultra-orthodox-men-bullying-women

[jakee 1,254]

Bolas

Nothing mentioned about them not being able to read and write, or restrictions placed/forbidding them from learning to speak English.

Of course the fact you didn't/couldn't mention a Jewish country or state repressing it's own jewish citizens also speaks volumes.

Well, yeah, there is only one Jewish country.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[masterblaster72 0]

Andy9o8

Quote

Don't have calls to prayer for the whole neighborhood to hear

Right, that's more akin to Christian churches that sound church bells on Sunday that can be heard for miles around.
You weaken your message when you cross the line into being ethnically judgmental.

This is a comparison between Halacha and Sharia: Jews don't wake up the neighborhood when going to synagogue. Your cheap attempt to make a bigot out of me assumes I don't have equal disdain for tower calls and church bells, which I do.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Bolas 5]

Jews have extremists too.

Just like Christians have Westboro.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/15/jerusalem-mayor-battle-orthodox-billboards?INTCMP=SRCH

Some assaults, vandalism, and throwing rocks at officers. No suicide bomber explosions, beheadings...

Even so, the behavior is not being tolerated by other Jews.

Quote

Tsur said: "We are talking about a very extreme group of people who don't recognise the authority of the city, the police, the government or the high court. It is critically important that we don't let this minority dominate."

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wmw999 2,120]

And there's the problem: extremism. Not the the specific religion. Islam has only bred extremism since the formation of Israel. Ha think the two might be related? Native Americans used to be considered evil raging hordes, too.

i think ISIS and Boko Haram are evil, and entirely worth our investment as a nation to be part of fighting them. They're nor our personal problem as Americans because of distance, but they are our problem as human beings.

Trying to conflate American Muslims with them because they share a stated religion is like conflating Baptists with the Lord's Resistance Army.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)