BIGUN 1,042 #26 January 19, 2015 BornToThrillI don't believe at all tipping should be banned. It's effective in many cases. You are essentially paying for customer service wether its good (fair tip) or bad (no or small tip). Would you want to stand in line waiting to pick up your food at a restaurant? If you're going out to eat, its for the experience or else you would order ahead for take-out or just eat at home. POINT 1 - But, we've all been told to tip 15% regardless of the service. So these poor folks can make a living. QuoteIf every server, waitress and bartender were paid the same amount why would one strive to provide excellent customer service? They would just do an average job. Are all doctors paid the same? No, some are much more costly because they provide a better or more experienced service. POINT 1 - But, we've all been told to tip 15% regardless of the service. So these poor folks can make a living. QuoteMy wife is a waitress/bartender and she has said many people would rather be on tips because she would be getting paid the same as a shitbag who works at the same place if they were on minimum wage. IT IS COMPETITION THAT DRIVES QUALITY! POINT 1 - But, we've all been told to tip 15% regardless of the service. So these poor folks can make a living. Backwards: Quality drives Competition. QuoteIf everyone is on minimum wage and presumably working 40+ hours a week now you have to deal with possible health benefits and employers working things out or not. A lot of things can get jumbled up in this discussion. Admittedly, you've hit on the one thing that most have missed. Employer Burden. Kudos.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BornToThrill 0 #27 January 20, 2015 Yes quality drives competition. I had that backwards but I think that works both ways. Thanks for bringing that up though. Just because someone TELLS you that you should automatically tip 15% do you necessarily have to? Is anyone forcing you? If someone was truly trying to make a living do you think they would provide horrible service? And do you agree BIGUN that since quality drives competition that tipping is a good thing? Just curious on your stance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #28 January 20, 2015 >If every server, waitress and bartender were paid the same amount why would one >strive to provide excellent customer service? Well, same reason most people work hard, I suppose - to get raises and not get fired. Take the opposite case. Let's say a restaurant says "well, as long as he shows up, then I don't have to worry about job performance - customers will tip him well if he performs well." And he sucks, but the manager never hears much about it, because he's certainly not going to tell them he's getting no tips. That means the quality of the waitstaff is lower than it otherwise would be. (I don't have a strong opinion either way on the issue; both methods have problems.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,042 #29 January 20, 2015 BornToThrillJust because someone TELLS you that you should automatically tip 15% do you necessarily have to? The psychology of it is - if you don't tip the 15%, these people can't make a fair living. And, in most cases, the service is a factor of management; not the server. I'm not - not going to tip when I see the wait staff is trying their best and the kitchen is jamming them up. For me; the current methodology allows management to blame the wait staff for poor service; rather than the quality of service to start in the kitchen - and the servers have NO control over that. I ask for three simple things; 1) bring us what we ordered at the same time, so we can all eat together, 2) Cook it the way we asked, and 3) Serve it hot. You want to see the best dining expeerience on the planet; go to ANY of the Shula's Steakhouses. You will not only get those three things, the wait staff is dressed properly and they have stations on the floor where their eyes are constantly scanning.... water glass half full - it gets replaced, not refilled. It is the gold standard of service at any of their locations. This I do not mind paying 20% in a tip. BornToThrillAnd do you agree BIGUN that since quality drives competition that tipping is a good thing? Just curious on your stance. Quite frankly, I'm a fan of the Italian model. Not required, but if the server goes above and beyond - you decide on the tip. That motivates the restauranteur to ensure QoS in the kitchen AND the wait staff to ensure QoS at the table.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #30 January 20, 2015 1 - tips - purely voluntary and not expected at all and not even a tiny bit a part of social expectation. and the employee is paid such that they can show up and get zero tips. Good or bad service can be relayed to the manager and people get hired and fired directly by management - not indirectly because they are crappy and don't get sufficient tips. ----- YES, ABSOLUTELY (we can always give money away 'just because') 2 - tips - part of social convention where you are almost made to feel forced to give no matter what, where the 'exception' is not tipping - NO, ABSOLUTELY 3 - tips - tips jars, little tips envelopes, signs the state "we don't expect but appreciate it", directly asking for it, hinting at it, etc etc etc? CLASSLESS and completely out of line and poor business face we should have 1, we have 2. I'll tip a bit for bad service in certain industries just because I know the employee is getting a crappy wage. Even if the management gets a note about the bad service. It's not good reinforcement. Hiring people should come with a "real" assessment for what an employee and job is worth - direct. Not indirect. 3? begging for it pretty much guarantees a zero and a complaint. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #31 January 20, 2015 Do tandem instructors deserves a tip? Having worked at dz where they almost force the student to tip(give them a envelope with their name on it and point at the tip box) and other dz where policy is don't even talk about it or you get fired. There were significant difference in pay. Do tandem passengers like to tip? Or are they so hopped up on adrenaline that they don't think straight and just give their money away? I think most of the passengers genuinely likes to show their appreciation, even if they were force to tip, I've seen average rate of 10-15 dollar per jump, and those who wants to show off, I've seen 50's and 100 dollar bill in a tip envelope with their name on it.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,042 #32 January 20, 2015 If not mandatory or implied as mandatory... It's the customer's call.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #33 January 20, 2015 stayhighDo <<>> deserves a tip? frankly - 'deserves' isn't a word that should come into play in this discussion since the choice to tip should be 100% about the giver (for any or no reason), not the recipient. "if it's not mandatory or implied mandatory" that's the point isn't it? How over the top can a transaction be "implied" that it just crosses the line. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #34 January 20, 2015 Quotefrankly - 'deserves' isn't a word that should come into play in this discussion since the choice to tip should be 100% about the giver (for any or no reason), not the recipient. Correct. The idea of the tip is essentially the same as a bribe; at least originally. It was not meant to reward good service; that was expected. But to ensure the waiter recognized the customer as generous and worthy of better service next time. Of course, this has become completely bastardized and there's almost no way most servers will ever be able to recognize one customer out of the bajillions they are now required to serve at most locations. The key exception being Starbucks baristas, which for some reason seem to be able to memorize every single customer they've ever encounters more than just a couple of times.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #35 January 20, 2015 quadeCorrect. The idea of the tip is essentially the same as a bribe; at least originally. It was not meant to reward good service; that was expected. But to ensure the waiter recognized the customer as generous and worthy of better service next time. That reminds me of the exchange in My Blue Heaven... Barnie: "You tip a flight attendant?" Vinnie: "I tip everybody, That's my philosophy. Actually, it's not tipping I believe in, it's overtipping." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #36 January 20, 2015 Well, if we're making movie references... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #37 January 20, 2015 >The answer is yes. Some restaurants are already trialing this concept. We had one place like that down here. Pretty good menu, great beer selection. It closed recently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BornToThrill 0 #38 January 21, 2015 After commenting and reading others comments it's encouraging to see a respectful, mature, and intelligent conversation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 254 #39 January 21, 2015 Iago I can base this experience on the trips I had to Germany and France. There would be a cafe with literally 40+ seats at outdoor tables and one server taking orders. You ordered a drink, you got your drink, and you never got an opportunity to order another because the server had moved on to another table. The same with restaurants. The service was absolutely appalling. Nobody EVER came by to see if you would like another drink, or if you needed extra condiments, nothing until they brought the bill. Sometimes even the bill was hard to get and you had to send up signal flares. Sounds like you were pretty unlucky. From years spent going to Europe, its no better or worse than the US, the UK, NZ or anywhere else. There are areas where people's manner comes across as rude, or at least gruff (Seville comes to mind) but there is a cultural aspect there too in the way you eat. Now if you expected the forced happiness and over the top attention of some of the US restaurants then I can understand why you'd think they were rude. I find overattentiveness as irritating as the opposite. That said, the two worst places I have ever eaten from a service perspective were a cafe in covent garden (london), and a restaurant in arizona.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #40 January 21, 2015 Some culture hates when waitress or waiter comes over while eating food. You order your food once and that is it, if you want more stuff you call them over. They don't come to you, and alot of other stuff you need, like water, silverware, napkins, ect, are self-serviced.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
