Channman 2
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CornishChrisI am "fucking serious".
I am not sure whether it would have crossed anyone's mind that if they had a gun they could have helped the situation in the Lindt cafe but i do agree that if there was a well trained gun carrying individual there then the outcome could have been different. That said, the police seemed to have a clear shot a number of times but didn't take it - they were trying to negotiate peacefully and he had also claimed to have explosive devices so perhaps they wanted trained negotiators and firearms officers to deal with the situation rather than some gung ho hero.
There are, of course, situations when having a gun (and training) could change the outcome positively and it is easy to come up with analogies and situations to demonstrate ones point on this. My issue is that for each one of these incidents there are hundreds and thousands of incidents where carrying a gun does not alter the outcome positively, but negatively. I refer you back to the statistics in the HuffPost article.
You asked "Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia?" I responded - I hold a different position to you but I'm not sure why that makes my position "a joke".
America has a very different relationship with guns historically to either the UK or Australia, but when the US has nearly as many gun related homicides a day (c. 31) than Oz has in a year (40) I'm not sure that you stand in a particularly strong position to state that your relationship is the model one.
If given the option, id prefer to use my abilities combined with my weapon to defend myself over not having it. I hope each day that I never have to use it.
You said the police attempted multiple times to peacefully resolve the situation, but in the end violence ensued anyway. Which is exactly why these restrictive laws don't work.
[url]
nonsense - if they wanted to do that, here's the dialogue (Speaker's Corner version if this happened in the US)
1 - So someone in the bank went all 'cowboy' and tried to save the day.
2 - Then crooked cops went in and shot a misunderstood muslim man.
3 - Cops probably assumed the man was 'brown' of skin, though photos make that hard to tell or not. See attachment
4 - Even civilians got killed too.
This is what happens when guns and cops are involved
now that's an insensitive tangent
The 'left' I was referring to is our own democratic party, and I cannot comment on australia's government.
rehmwa***Dude are fucking serious? Don't even play that. The left's primary mission in life is to use any and every catastrophe and crisis to their political advantage
nonsense - if they wanted to do that, here's the dialogue (Speaker's Corner version if this happened in the US)
1 - So someone in the bank went all 'cowboy' and tried to save the day.
2 - Then crooked cops went in and shot a misunderstood muslim man.
3 - Cops probably assumed the man was 'brown' of skin, though photos make that hard to tell or not. See attachment
4 - Even civilians got killed too.
This is what happens when guns and cops are involved
now that's an insensitive tangent
The 'left' I was referring to is our own democratic party, and I cannot comment on australia's government.
When seconds count police are minutes away. it takes a bit to get a ready to go SRT in place, much less bomb techs and negotiators. The last shooting I was on scene for we were called out, sat there for about an hour for 2 SRT members to arrive with swat medics to go in. Before they entered the guy shot himself in the head.
Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,
Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,
SkyDekker 1,121
regulator***I am "fucking serious".
I am not sure whether it would have crossed anyone's mind that if they had a gun they could have helped the situation in the Lindt cafe but i do agree that if there was a well trained gun carrying individual there then the outcome could have been different. That said, the police seemed to have a clear shot a number of times but didn't take it - they were trying to negotiate peacefully and he had also claimed to have explosive devices so perhaps they wanted trained negotiators and firearms officers to deal with the situation rather than some gung ho hero.
There are, of course, situations when having a gun (and training) could change the outcome positively and it is easy to come up with analogies and situations to demonstrate ones point on this. My issue is that for each one of these incidents there are hundreds and thousands of incidents where carrying a gun does not alter the outcome positively, but negatively. I refer you back to the statistics in the HuffPost article.
You asked "Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia?" I responded - I hold a different position to you but I'm not sure why that makes my position "a joke".
America has a very different relationship with guns historically to either the UK or Australia, but when the US has nearly as many gun related homicides a day (c. 31) than Oz has in a year (40) I'm not sure that you stand in a particularly strong position to state that your relationship is the model one.
If given the option, id prefer to use my abilities combined with my weapon to defend myself over not having it. I hope each day that I never have to use it.
You said the police attempted multiple times to peacefully resolve the situation, but in the end violence ensued anyway. Which is exactly why these restrictive laws don't work.
Yes it is much better to allow heroes with drinking problems to have guns, so they can murder their ex-wife and her family.
She was too stupid to have a gun too I guess.
GeorgiaDon 340
Now don't you go posting anything critical of a Marine (or Marine reservist, or anyone connected to the Marines). Who are you (or I) to criticize them? Don't you know they are above the law? Anyway, I bet Obama killed those people, just to make the Marines look bad, or distract attention from Bengazi, or something.QuoteYes it is much better to allow heroes with drinking problems to have guns, so they can murder their ex-wife and her family.
She was too stupid to have a gun too I guess.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
SkyDekker******I am "fucking serious".
I am not sure whether it would have crossed anyone's mind that if they had a gun they could have helped the situation in the Lindt cafe but i do agree that if there was a well trained gun carrying individual there then the outcome could have been different. That said, the police seemed to have a clear shot a number of times but didn't take it - they were trying to negotiate peacefully and he had also claimed to have explosive devices so perhaps they wanted trained negotiators and firearms officers to deal with the situation rather than some gung ho hero.
There are, of course, situations when having a gun (and training) could change the outcome positively and it is easy to come up with analogies and situations to demonstrate ones point on this. My issue is that for each one of these incidents there are hundreds and thousands of incidents where carrying a gun does not alter the outcome positively, but negatively. I refer you back to the statistics in the HuffPost article.
You asked "Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia?" I responded - I hold a different position to you but I'm not sure why that makes my position "a joke".
America has a very different relationship with guns historically to either the UK or Australia, but when the US has nearly as many gun related homicides a day (c. 31) than Oz has in a year (40) I'm not sure that you stand in a particularly strong position to state that your relationship is the model one.
If given the option, id prefer to use my abilities combined with my weapon to defend myself over not having it. I hope each day that I never have to use it.
You said the police attempted multiple times to peacefully resolve the situation, but in the end violence ensued anyway. Which is exactly why these restrictive laws don't work.
Yes it is much better to allow heroes with drinking problems to have guns, so they can murder their ex-wife and her family.
She was too stupid to have a gun too I guess.
What the hell are you talking about? Have you been smoking meth again?
GeorgiaDonNow don't you go posting anything critical of a Marine (or Marine reservist, or anyone connected to the Marines). Who are you (or I) to criticize them? Don't you know they are above the law? Anyway, I bet Obama killed those people, just to make the Marines look bad, or distract attention from Bengazi, or something.QuoteYes it is much better to allow heroes with drinking problems to have guns, so they can murder their ex-wife and her family.
She was too stupid to have a gun too I guess.
Don
I have no idea why you hate the military so much. Perhaps your jealousy of what its like to actually have a pair is getting to you.
SkyDekker 1,121
regulator*********I am "fucking serious".
I am not sure whether it would have crossed anyone's mind that if they had a gun they could have helped the situation in the Lindt cafe but i do agree that if there was a well trained gun carrying individual there then the outcome could have been different. That said, the police seemed to have a clear shot a number of times but didn't take it - they were trying to negotiate peacefully and he had also claimed to have explosive devices so perhaps they wanted trained negotiators and firearms officers to deal with the situation rather than some gung ho hero.
There are, of course, situations when having a gun (and training) could change the outcome positively and it is easy to come up with analogies and situations to demonstrate ones point on this. My issue is that for each one of these incidents there are hundreds and thousands of incidents where carrying a gun does not alter the outcome positively, but negatively. I refer you back to the statistics in the HuffPost article.
You asked "Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia?" I responded - I hold a different position to you but I'm not sure why that makes my position "a joke".
America has a very different relationship with guns historically to either the UK or Australia, but when the US has nearly as many gun related homicides a day (c. 31) than Oz has in a year (40) I'm not sure that you stand in a particularly strong position to state that your relationship is the model one.
If given the option, id prefer to use my abilities combined with my weapon to defend myself over not having it. I hope each day that I never have to use it.
You said the police attempted multiple times to peacefully resolve the situation, but in the end violence ensued anyway. Which is exactly why these restrictive laws don't work.
Yes it is much better to allow heroes with drinking problems to have guns, so they can murder their ex-wife and her family.
She was too stupid to have a gun too I guess.
What the hell are you talking about? Have you been smoking meth again?
I take it you have not been following the news.
GeorgiaDon 340
I don't hate the military, that's just your delusion. I come from a military family in fact. My father, brother, sister, and brother-in-law are all active or retired military.
I do not like the notion, sometimes expressed here in speaker's corner, that people should be excused from violating crimes because they are/were a Marine. I also disagree with the often insinuated notion that military service makes someone a better "American" than teachers, or rocket scientists, or brain surgeons etc are.
Why are you always so angry? We never hear anything but spittle-filled hateful ranting and diatribes from you. "Bleeding liberal vaginas" and crap of that nature.
Don
I do not like the notion, sometimes expressed here in speaker's corner, that people should be excused from violating crimes because they are/were a Marine. I also disagree with the often insinuated notion that military service makes someone a better "American" than teachers, or rocket scientists, or brain surgeons etc are.
Why are you always so angry? We never hear anything but spittle-filled hateful ranting and diatribes from you. "Bleeding liberal vaginas" and crap of that nature.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
When on earth did I say that because someone was in the military that they should be excused from being held accountable for their crimes...if they commit any?
Just because I support the military doesn't mean I support some person that went rogue and killed someone. They should be held to the same criteria as any other citizen.
While stationed in fort polk there was a sgt in my unit. His wife got deployed to Fort Bragg and he had to stay at Ft. Polk. He got so upset in a jealous rage thinking she was cheating on him that he took leave...waiting in her barricks and when she got back he stabbed her 18 times. MP's saw him running out with a knife with blood all over it and then ensued a chase that eventually eneded when the sgt miscalculated a turn and hit a bridge embankment at over 90. He died instantly and she somehow survived. if you think I felt sorry for the guy that stabbed his wife then you obviously don't know anything about me.
Just because I support the military doesn't mean I support some person that went rogue and killed someone. They should be held to the same criteria as any other citizen.
While stationed in fort polk there was a sgt in my unit. His wife got deployed to Fort Bragg and he had to stay at Ft. Polk. He got so upset in a jealous rage thinking she was cheating on him that he took leave...waiting in her barricks and when she got back he stabbed her 18 times. MP's saw him running out with a knife with blood all over it and then ensued a chase that eventually eneded when the sgt miscalculated a turn and hit a bridge embankment at over 90. He died instantly and she somehow survived. if you think I felt sorry for the guy that stabbed his wife then you obviously don't know anything about me.
DanG 1
QuoteWhen on earth did I say that because someone was in the military that they should be excused from being held accountable for their crimes...if they commit any?
You've advocated for the Marine being held in Mexico on gun charges being freed because he's a Marine.
- Dan G
BillyVance 34
DanGQuoteWhen on earth did I say that because someone was in the military that they should be excused from being held accountable for their crimes...if they commit any?
You've advocated for the Marine being held in Mexico on gun charges being freed because he's a Marine.
Those gun charges were trumped up bullshit. He realized he made a mistake taking the wrong turn and couldn't go back and they still jailed him. IIRC
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
DanG 1
QuoteThose gun charges were trumped up bullshit. He realized he made a mistake taking the wrong turn and couldn't go back and they still jailed him. IIRC
So he says. It's beside the point, though.
People, including regulator, have argued that we should force Mexico to free him because he's a US Marine, not because he's innocent. They have even gone so far as to say Obama hates the military, and his abandoning that guy is evidence.
- Dan G
SkyDekker 1,121
BillyVance***
QuoteWhen on earth did I say that because someone was in the military that they should be excused from being held accountable for their crimes...if they commit any?
You've advocated for the Marine being held in Mexico on gun charges being freed because he's a Marine.
Those gun charges were trumped up bullshit. He realized he made a mistake taking the wrong turn and couldn't go back and they still jailed him. IIRC
So much for personal responsibility.
ryoder 1,381
It seems no funeral home will take the lunatics body:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/just-dump-man-haron-monis-body-at-sea-muslim-leaders-say/story-fnl2dlu7-1227161221594
“We don’t care about him, we don’t know him, chuck him in the bloody shithouse,” said Amin Sayed, funeral director with the Lebanese Muslim Association
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/just-dump-man-haron-monis-body-at-sea-muslim-leaders-say/story-fnl2dlu7-1227161221594
“We don’t care about him, we don’t know him, chuck him in the bloody shithouse,” said Amin Sayed, funeral director with the Lebanese Muslim Association
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.
turtlespeed 212
ryoderIt seems no funeral home will take the lunatics body:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/just-dump-man-haron-monis-body-at-sea-muslim-leaders-say/story-fnl2dlu7-1227161221594
“We don’t care about him, we don’t know him, chuck him in the bloody shithouse,” said Amin Sayed, funeral director with the Lebanese Muslim Association
GOOD!
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
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