Sydney Australia hostage situation

[ryoder 1,546]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lindt-chocolat-cafe-hostage-drama-in-martin-place-sydney-20141215-1278cx.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 4]

ryoder

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lindt-chocolat-cafe-hostage-drama-in-martin-place-sydney-20141215-1278cx.html

Makes me wonder what level of hostage crisis in the US gets covered in Australia. At this point do they even care about such things? I mean, clearly in Australia this is a "man bites dog" situation, but would it even rise above the noise level of all the other crimes in the US to be worthy of being reported in Australia?

EDITED TO ADD: Hmmm, now being reported on Fox News, et al, there is a black flag in the store window with Islamic writing on it.

Okay, that's a twist.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[talon2 0]

Want to edit a bit more ?

[CornishChris 5]

Having lived in Australia I can confirm that they are a pretty inward looking country but large news events are large news events and they do get covered.

The problem with what events to report is that there are so many events coming out into the news sphere from all over the world that only the worst (or the ones that capture imagination) get reported internationally. It is the same in any country - home news trumps overseas news in most cases.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[christelsabine 1]

"QUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADEEE

This is a link with no context "

(JohnnyMarko)

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JohnnyMarko 1]

christelsabine

"QUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADEEE

This is a link with no context "

(JohnnyMarko)

Nah, I like Robert...fellow Coloradan...didn't feel like tattling on my pal

[ryoder 1,546]

What a fruitcake:

Quote

Suspected gunman Man Haron Monis, 49, received political asylum in Australia in 1996 and was on bail facing a number of charges.

On a website, now suspended, he describes himself as a Shia Muslim who converted to Sunni Islam.

The self-styled cleric was described by his former lawyer as an isolated figure.

One of his demands was to have a flag of Islamic State, the Sunni militant group which recently seized territory in Syria and Iraq, to be delivered to the cafe.

You need to take hostages to acquire an ISIS flag?

Source http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30485355

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[skycop 0]

The result of the dynamic entry was about the average.
If force is used to resolve the situation, a hostage has an 85% chance of survival. My WAG was this guy was getting desperate and was about to do something bad and drastic.
Kudos to the Aussie LEO's (and/or military) for a job well done.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[ryoder 1,546]

Looks like the raid was not planned;
7 hostages made a break, and the lunatic started shooting, so the cops rushed in.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-siege-over-the-moment-police-decided-to-raid-lindt-cafe-20141215-127vj7.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Stumpy 283]

My colleagues in the Sydney office are just round the corner from there. Word on the street is that the gunman was struggling to stay awake so the store manager tried to get his gun. That kicked off the altercation and apparently the soldiers hit the door 6 seconds after they heard the first shot. That's all hearsay at the moment however.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[regulator 0]

Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia.?


How is this even possible?


That's probably why this irks quade so much.

[wmw999 2,311]

Quote

Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia.?

Well, actually, that'd be wrong. They're restricted, but apparently about 5% of people own guns there.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

I'd gander to say this is one of the most gun restrictive nations on the planet and yet there's still gun violence. Laws don't prevent you from getting killed by crazy people.

[JerryBaumchen 1,260]

Hi regulator,

Quote

Laws don't prevent you from getting killed by crazy people.

IMO it is their getting access to them.

And this might interest you: http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-sandy-hook-gun-lawsuit-20141215-story.html

It will be interesting to watch this one,

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,546]

JerryBaumchen

IMO it is their getting access to them.

And this might interest you: http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-sandy-hook-gun-lawsuit-20141215-story.html

It will be interesting to watch this one,

Jerry Baumchen

Fark sums it up nicely:

Sandy Hook families suing rifle manufacturer, under the premise of negligent entrustment. In other words, the manufacturer should have known the gun would be sold to the mother of a child with severe, untreated mental health issues.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Backintothesky 0]

Incredibly brave man. One can only hope we have the same sense of courage if ever put in such a situation.

According to reports the other hostage who died was shielding her pregnant friend from gunfire.

Tragic loss of two young and courageous individuals.

Thoughts go out to their familys.

Stumpy

My colleagues in the Sydney office are just round the corner from there. Word on the street is that the gunman was struggling to stay awake so the store manager tried to get his gun. That kicked off the altercation and apparently the soldiers hit the door 6 seconds after they heard the first shot. That's all hearsay at the moment however.

[CornishChris 5]

Quote

Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia.?

I assume it's because right wing gun lovers take every opportunity to promote their own cause, even when people have died.

Oz was already a massively restricted gun state prior to their major mass killing the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. Since then the restrictions have become tighter and guess what - nothing else on the scale of Port Arthur. Their were photos of American tweets yesterday, instantly trying to propagandise this incident for the pro-gun lobby, the usual rhetoric that if just one of them had had a gun this would never have happened. Also I didn't see a single one of these from an Aussie. Stop trying to push your views onto other nations - we don't want to end up as broken as your country where the gun tide is, quite frankly, irreversible.

Look at the numbers per 100,000 deaths. Australia sits at 0.2 from guns versus 2.2 in the US. This article is illuminating: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/15/gun-violence-australia-sydney_n_6329158.html

You keep the guns, we (and Oz) don't want them.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Stumpy 283]

regulator

Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia.?

You can point it out all you like. As usual, you are wrong.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Backintothesky 0]

False.

There are still a lot of guns in the UK and Australia mate. There's still a lot of hunting as well as gun ranges.

The UK is not a "gun free" place. Nor should it be. Shooting is a legit sport and it's shameful that our national pistol shooting team must train abroad. Shameful.

Did you know you can buy an AR-15 in the UK.......it's straight pull sure, but still lethal. Semi automatic shotguns and bolt action high powered hunting rifles (what the media would call "sniper rifles") are available to be purchased.

In France I can pick up Glocks, AK-47's, shotguns, AR-15s and all sorts of weaponary relatively easily.

Nearly every Swiss home has an assualt rifle in it.

Now of course there can never be a like for like comparison between countries - particularly given the size of the US BUT I've said it before and I'll say it again it's a CULTURE thing.

Why can other countries be awash with weapons and yet not have the same massacres?

CornishChris

You keep the guns, we (and Oz) don't want them.

[regulator 0]

CornishChris

Quote

Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia.?

I assume it's because right wing gun lovers take every opportunity to promote their own cause, even when people have died.

Oz was already a massively restricted gun state prior to their major mass killing the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. Since then the restrictions have become tighter and guess what - nothing else on the scale of Port Arthur. Their were photos of American tweets yesterday, instantly trying to propagandise this incident for the pro-gun lobby, the usual rhetoric that if just one of them had had a gun this would never have happened. Also I didn't see a single one of these from an Aussie. Stop trying to push your views onto other nations - we don't want to end up as broken as your country where the gun tide is, quite frankly, irreversible.

Look at the numbers per 100,000 deaths. Australia sits at 0.2 from guns versus 2.2 in the US. This article is illuminating: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/15/gun-violence-australia-sydney_n_6329158.html

You keep the guns, we (and Oz) don't want them.

Dude are fucking serious? Don't even play that. The left's primary mission in life is to use any and every catastrophe and crisis to their political advantage. In fact 20 families from sandy hook decided it was a good idea to sue bushmaster because some nutjob killed their kids. But what you said...its a joke. And just as you saw...guns can still be illegal and people can still get them. Laws dont do shit in regards to personal health


Also: I wasn't trying to push the views of my country onto your country...I was just pointing out that your restrictive gun laws are nothing more than paper weights. And while you can sit there all day long on your high chair annotating all of the bad, bad things guns do....I bet you one of those people in that cafe WISHED they had one so they could defend themselves instead of dying.

And in no way do I want to sing the song 'this is my rifle and this is my gun' over the deaths of those two people killed in the cafe. May they and their families find peace in this difficult time.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

As tragic this day is for the two victims, their friends and family, the other hostages, their friends and family and all of Oz, it's just another day in Islam where gunmen storm a school in Pakistan and proceed to slaughter 126 children and their teachers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/taliban-attack-on-pakistan-school-leaves-126-dead-1.2874449

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[regulator 0]

Backintothesky

False.

There are still a lot of guns in the UK and Australia mate. There's still a lot of hunting as well as gun ranges.

The UK is not a "gun free" place. Nor should it be. Shooting is a legit sport and it's shameful that our national pistol shooting team must train abroad. Shameful.

Did you know you can buy an AR-15 in the UK.......it's straight pull sure, but still lethal. Semi automatic shotguns and bolt action high powered hunting rifles (what the media would call "sniper rifles") are available to be purchased.

In France I can pick up Glocks, AK-47's, shotguns, AR-15s and all sorts of weaponary relatively easily.

Nearly every Swiss home has an assualt rifle in it.

Now of course there can never be a like for like comparison between countries - particularly given the size of the US BUT I've said it before and I'll say it again it's a CULTURE thing.

Why can other countries be awash with weapons and yet not have the same massacres?

***You keep the guns, we (and Oz) don't want them.

I'd be willing to bet that after this event gun rights will be even more restrictive in OZ.

[CornishChris 5]

I am "fucking serious".

I am not sure whether it would have crossed anyone's mind that if they had a gun they could have helped the situation in the Lindt cafe but i do agree that if there was a well trained gun carrying individual there then the outcome could have been different. That said, the police seemed to have a clear shot a number of times but didn't take it - they were trying to negotiate peacefully and he had also claimed to have explosive devices so perhaps they wanted trained negotiators and firearms officers to deal with the situation rather than some gung ho hero.

There are, of course, situations when having a gun (and training) could change the outcome positively and it is easy to come up with analogies and situations to demonstrate ones point on this. My issue is that for each one of these incidents there are hundreds and thousands of incidents where carrying a gun does not alter the outcome positively, but negatively. I refer you back to the statistics in the HuffPost article.

You asked "Why do I have to be the one to point out that guns are illegal in Australia?" I responded - I hold a different position to you but I'm not sure why that makes my position "a joke".

America has a very different relationship with guns historically to either the UK or Australia, but when the US has nearly as many gun related homicides a day (c. 31) than Oz has in a year (40) I'm not sure that you stand in a particularly strong position to state that your relationship is the model one.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[CornishChris 5]

The Pakistan school shootings are a new level of fucked up.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[SkyDekker 1,288]

Quote

That said, the police seemed to have a clear shot a number of times but didn't take it

Probably more so because it is a very low probability shot.


http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a283575.pdf