Senate CIA Torture Report

[Backintothesky 0]

The ignorance displayed in this quote is simply shocking.

Learn your history. America didn't "liberate" Europe alone, it REQUIRED a concerted effort from Allies around the world.

In fact there's a good argument to be made that Russia was the key to defeating the Nazis by 1945. God knows how long the war would have gone on for without the Eastern front pressure on Hitler.

I'm not going to compare you to Hitler directly but you do realise that this is the same logic he used. "It's ours".

By that logic Putin is well within rights to roll up Eastern Europe up to Berlin.

Thinking and acting like that just leads to continous and never ending violence.

catfishhunter

Japan should be ours Germany Should be ours Hell France should be ours.

[Backintothesky 0]

As a believer why bother?

I thought you'd be excited about dying? You get to see your God no?

I see religious people crying when their loved ones die. Why? Only a matter of time before they see them again according to their beliefs...and apparently they are in a better place....?

RonD1120

Don't waste too much energy on them. Work on your survival plan for combating ISIS related attacks on your home turf. My wife and I have moved to the mountains in north GA. In addition, we have purchased a nine acre plot in a secretive secluded location that the entire family can use if evacuation becomes necessary. It is suitable for hunting and farming.

Trust in the Lord and be prepared.

[SkyDekker 1,294]

Interesting article about the constant failures at CIA and the woman who appears to be in the centre of it all:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/unidentified-queen-torture?mbid=social_twitter

[rehmwa 2]

RonD1120

then go out for coffee and donuts.

I believe the slur is Chi-Tea and organically grown and sustainable non-flavor tofu rolls

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ryoder 1,556]

It seems a certain incompetent high-ranking CIA officer with a fondness for torture, managed to have her name redacted from the report, (and this story):

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/bin-laden-expert-accused-shaping-cia-deception-torture-program-n269551

Some digging turned it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfreda_Frances_Bikowsky

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[catfishhunter 2]

jakee

Quote

Progressive liberals, most of the Democratic Party in the U.S., live in a secure, academic world of intellectuals. They think of solutions to problems

I fail to see the downside?

Quote

They believe that you can reason with evil, come to a workable compromise, and then go out for coffee and donuts.

Right, and conservatives believe you should annihilate entire ethnic groups and the populations of vast geographical swathes to protect yourselves from a minute proportion of hostile people.

Japan did not stop until we dropped the SECOND bomb. Since you do not believe in God why do you care if we kill thousands of what you call innocents? If you use logic and remove God the only solution to rid the world once and for all of the evil that is being taught then you must kill 2 generations and start over. That's cold hard facts. AM I advocating that? Nope but if we had dropped a dozen or so MOAB's I do believe it would have ended them.

We need to have a severe deterrent. Either annihilation or assimilation. If we have to come we will either eliminate you or we will own you. We are the only country to give back and rebuild what we have "won"

Probably a very good thing I will never ever have any influence on any decision making. That we both can agree on as I have no use for "diplomacy" other then you punch me I kill you.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[billvon 2,739]

>Since you do not believe in God why do you care if we kill thousands of what you call
>innocents?

?? Are you saying that only religious types have any morals? Because from my perspective it is the religious extremists who are the ones doing most of the killing. Heck, RonD is using God to justify torture and killing in the other thread. We can only hope most people in the world are atheists (or at least the sort of religious believer who manages to avoid that sort of justification of violence, torture and killing.)

> If we have to come we will either eliminate you or we will own you.

Fortunately we have never done that (and fortunately you're not in charge of anything.)

>That we both can agree on as I have no use for "diplomacy" other then you punch me I kill you.

Just like Jesus would do.

[catfishhunter 2]

billvon

>Since you do not believe in God why do you care if we kill thousands of what you call
>innocents?

?? Are you saying that only religious types have any morals? Because from my perspective it is the religious extremists who are the ones doing most of the killing. Heck, RonD is using God to justify torture and killing in the other thread. We can only hope most people in the world are atheists (or at least the sort of religious believer who manages to avoid that sort of justification of violence, torture and killing.)

> If we have to come we will either eliminate you or we will own you.

Fortunately we have never done that (and fortunately you're not in charge of anything.)

>That we both can agree on as I have no use for "diplomacy" other then you punch me I kill you.

Just like Jesus would do.

What does Jesus have to do with anything I said? Maybe you have some internal issue you need to come to grips with, you keep throwing that in there and since at no time have I brought Jesus or Buddha or Allah or the purple and pink rainbow unicorn into anything I have said your statement shows you have serious issue you need to come to grips with. Maybe Ron can point you towards a good priest to talk to.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[jakee 1,351]

Quote

Since you do not believe in God why do you care if we kill thousands of what you call innocents?

Because they're innocent people, and it's evil. I'm guessing it's because you believe in God that you don't care about murdering millions of innocents. I guess you think they'll just carry on in the afterlife anyway so what's the harm?

Quote

If you use logic and remove God the only solution to rid the world once and for all of the evil that is being taught then you must kill 2 generations and start over. That's cold hard facts.

That's insane and it still wouldn't work.

(I mean genuine, Dr Strangelove level, insane.)

Quote

AM I advocating that?

Yes.

Quote

We need to have a severe deterrent. Either annihilation or assimilation. If we have to come we will either eliminate you or we will own you.

And how will that discourage the terrorist organisations who aren't national governments and don't feel any responsibility towards the citizens of the countries they operate from?

Quote

Probably a very good thing I will never ever have any influence on any decision making.

Yes. You would certainly carve out a place in history amongst some very, uh, select company.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

> you punch me I kill you

I know it's a tangent, but these statements set me off -

that's a battle philosophy of the weak and scared - or one of the vengeful - or both

weakness - another's actions should not define your willingness to use your strength at the least possible level to take care of business

Strength allows us the privilege to respond with the least measures to stop threat, not to overwhelm a slight with overbearing viciousness

over-reaction is a childish tantrum of shivering cowards hiding behind rocks and others bigger than them

and if that's not applicable then I'd note that vengeance is not justice. vengeance is selfish and petty and also the domain of the weak willed, and ultimately, the scared and timid



happy holidays

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GeorgiaDon 355]

rehmwa

***> you punch me I kill you

I know it's a tangent, but these statements set me off -

that's a battle philosophy of the weak and scared - or one of the vengeful - or both

weakness - another's actions should not define your willingness to use your strength at the least possible level to take care of business

Strength allows us the privilege to respond with the least measures to stop threat, not to overwhelm a slight with overbearing viciousness

over-reaction is a childish tantrum of shivering cowards hiding behind rocks and others bigger than them

and if that's not applicable then I'd note that vengeance is not justice. vengeance is selfish and petty and also the domain of the weak willed, and ultimately, the scared and timid



happy holidaysExcellent post.

I'll only add "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" (attributed to Ghandi).

Happy and safe holidays to all,
Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rehmwa 2]

GeorgiaDon

Excellent post.

I don't know, it's pretty much poking a stick at catfisher who's already having a rough time getting people to understand what's he saying and the usual crowd just gangs up on him from that point on to spin it up worse and worse, it can be frustrating

i just hate those kinds of statements - sincerely made or not - egged on or not

happy yule

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wolfriverjoe 1,464]

rehmwa

I don't know, it's pretty much poking a stick at catfisher who's already having a rough time getting people to understand what's he saying and the usual crowd just gangs up on him from that point on to spin it up worse and worse, it can be frustrating

i just hate those kinds of statements - sincerely made or not - egged on or not

happy yule

I don't know. I don't think I'm having a hard time understanding what Catfish is trying to say.

Unless I'm missing something, he's willing to use torture on people who we think are our enemies (remember that we tortured a couple of guys who were working for us), he's willing to turn Afghanistan into a "glass parking lot" for what they did to us, nevermind that the ones who did it are a very small fraction of the population.
He thinks that victors in war should destroy and take over the losers. Maybe make the population of the losing countries our slaves (he didn't say exactly that, but it's an easy step from what he did say).

He seems very angry.

Am I missing something?

This sort of vengeful behavior isn't unusual. It's pretty typical. It used to be normal.

I'd like to think that we, as Americans, are better than that. I know we aren't, not really. Look at our history, our treatment of the indians (feather, not dot), the Japanese during WW2 and so on.

But if we fight evil with more evil (like torture), then we lose. We become what we are fighting against. And I'm not ok with that.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,351]

rehmwa

***Excellent post.

I don't know, it's pretty much poking a stick at catfisher who's already having a rough time getting people to understand what's he saying and the usual crowd just gangs up on him from that point on to spin it up worse and worse, it can be frustrating

It's not egged up or spinned on - he came straight in at the level of 'kill everyone, kill their families, nuke the cities and subjugate the remaining population' and has continued at precisely that level since. It's no-one else's fault that he's saying these things.

(And I'm not sure how you seperate yourself from the 'usual crowd ganging up' when you've just characterised his argument as weak, scared, vengeful, vicious, childish, scared, selfish, petty and cowardly?)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

******Excellent post.

I don't know, it's pretty much poking a stick at catfisher who's already having a rough time getting people to understand what's he saying and the usual crowd just gangs up on him from that point on to spin it up worse and worse, it can be frustrating

It's not egged up or spinned on - he came straight in at the level of 'kill everyone, kill their families, nuke the cities and subjugate the remaining population' and has continued at precisely that level since. It's no-one else's fault that he's saying these things.

(And I'm not sure how you seperate yourelf from the 'usual crowd ganging up' when you've just characterised his argument as weak, scared, vengeful, vicious, childish, scared, selfish, petty and cowardly?)

And yet you seem to defend radical muslims who say just this
Go figure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,351]

rushmc

And yet you seem to defend radical muslims who say just this
Go figure

I only need to figure that you're lying.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

***And yet you seem to defend radical muslims who say just this
Go figure

I only need to figure that you're lying.
Go figure







agian

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,351]

rushmc

******And yet you seem to defend radical muslims who say just this
Go figure

I only need to figure that you're lying.
Go figure

Go quote.

Go on, try it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Stumpy 283]

jakee

*********And yet you seem to defend radical muslims who say just this
Go figure

I only need to figure that you're lying.
Go figure

Go quote.

Go on, try it.
Waiting for the spin and dodge...........

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[kallend 1,827]

Backintothesky

Thinking and acting like that just leads to continous and never ending violence.

We have always been at war with Eastasia

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

jakee

*********And yet you seem to defend radical muslims who say just this
Go figure

I only need to figure that you're lying.
Go figure

Go quote.

Go on, try it.
I did go back
And, as you said what I accused you of is not there
I was wrong
So I publicly apologize here
Sorry

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,351]

Thank you, Marc.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[catfishhunter 2]

kallend

***

Thinking and acting like that just leads to continous and never ending violence.

We have always been at war with Eastasia

Exactly!

Now why, since everyone here is so smart, hasn't anyone offered their solution? I am not scared to tell you mine.
How do I know it would work? Well I have history on my side. Ask Japan. 2 bombs and they changed. Not one single liberal that has posted has offered any opinion on a solution only attacking those trying to keep us safe.

I also agree 100% that I should not be the one making those decisions because I would have no problem making the hard and frankly the only decision that will end it once and for all. Every other decision only prolongs the problem until one day they end us. Which is THEIR SOLUTION to the problem and how that completely escapes each of you defending this evil is mind boggling.

Your all so set on defending some sort anti-god yet twisted humanity spin you cant see the truths staring you in the face.

I was taught how to see and paly both sides a very long time ago by a great man and teacher. I can play the whole scenario out and yes I see and have thought your side through. I could argue just as well your opinion and be convincing but it would be wrong. Not because your wrong but because the ones we are talking about get a vote in the decision and that is the biggest thing your missing.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[jakee 1,351]

Quote

***We have always been at war with Eastasia

Exactly!

*Facepalm*

Quote

How do I know it would work? Well I have history on my side. Ask Japan. 2 bombs and they changed.

Yes, because right now the threat we face is a national government, same as it was then. Yeah.

Quote

I also agree 100% that I should not be the one making those decisions because I would have no problem making the hard and frankly the only decision that will end it once and for all. Every other decision only prolongs the problem until one day they end us. Which is THEIR SOLUTION to the problem and how that completely escapes each of you defending this evil is mind boggling.

No-one's defending the evil done by those who commit it. I also won't defend the evil you want to do to far greater numbers of those who have done nothing.

Quote

I was taught how to see and paly both sides a very long time ago by a great man and teacher. I can play the whole scenario out and yes I see and have thought your side through. I could argue just as well your opinion and be convincing but it would be wrong. Not because your wrong but because the ones we are talking about get a vote in the decision and that is the biggest thing your missing.

Yes, yes, I'm sure you're the only one here who knows how to think things through and not jump to rash conclusions

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,294]

catfishhunter

******

Thinking and acting like that just leads to continous and never ending violence.

We have always been at war with Eastasia

Exactly!

Now why, since everyone here is so smart, hasn't anyone offered their solution? I am not scared to tell you mine.
How do I know it would work? Well I have history on my side. Ask Japan. 2 bombs and they changed. Not one single liberal that has posted has offered any opinion on a solution only attacking those trying to keep us safe.

I also agree 100% that I should not be the one making those decisions because I would have no problem making the hard and frankly the only decision that will end it once and for all. Every other decision only prolongs the problem until one day they end us. Which is THEIR SOLUTION to the problem and how that completely escapes each of you defending this evil is mind boggling.

Your all so set on defending some sort anti-god yet twisted humanity spin you cant see the truths staring you in the face.

I was taught how to see and paly both sides a very long time ago by a great man and teacher. I can play the whole scenario out and yes I see and have thought your side through. I could argue just as well your opinion and be convincing but it would be wrong. Not because your wrong but because the ones we are talking about get a vote in the decision and that is the biggest thing your missing.

Lol, yet somehow you think that just turning the middle east into a "glass parking lot" will end it all.

Let me know how twe rest of that scenario plays out. Cause, if you think the rest of the world would not react to that, you are delusional.