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christelsabine

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Can anyone offer a rational explanation for why the EU and Japan, with combined populations exceeding that of the US, have so few cases of cops killing civilians? And remember that (1) many EU countries have large minority populations too, and (2) are far more "progressive" than the US, so those cannot be the explanation.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Folks need to check the rap sheets on these 'innocent' people cops have killed recently. This was not their first run-in with the cops. Bottom line, bad guys are flat stupid! They think they are smarter than law enforcement. Had any one of these guys simply cooperated, they'd be alive today. Like you said... dumb-asses. I guess, to the bad guys, being dead is better than prison... their choice.


Chuck

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kallend

Can anyone offer a rational explanation for why the EU and Japan, with combined populations exceeding that of the US, have so few cases of cops killing civilians?



Culture. Specifically in Japan, if a cop asks you to do something, you generally do it out of respect. That's been a part of their culture for thousands of years and it works very, very well.

Contrast that to the US where we openly advocate distrust of any and all government officials as well as escalation of tension for even the smallest thing to where even a game of kid's soccer can end up in a shooting.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade



Situation dependent. What is the crime? What is the risk vs reward of the situation? Doesn't matter what the crime is, when you're told you're under arrest, you're under arrest. Resisting or fighting isn't going to make that go away.

A guy selling "loose" cigarettes on the street? Why in god's name did that ever escalate to that level? It escalated because Mr. Garner refused to be placed under arrest. He told the cops, "Dis ends today." and then when they went to place him in handcuffs he slapped their hands away and began to flail his arms in an attempt to not be handcuffed. At that point, what were the cops supposed to do, just walk away?

A guy you know just committed an armed robbery or rape? Well, yes, there's a time to pull out an actual gun. Is that a given or is it like you said, depending on the situation?

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quade

***Can anyone offer a rational explanation for why the EU and Japan, with combined populations exceeding that of the US, have so few cases of cops killing civilians?



Culture. Specifically in Japan, if a cop asks you to do something, you generally do it out of respect. That's been a part of their culture for thousands of years and it works very, very well.

Contrast that to the US where we openly advocate distrust of any and all government officials as well as escalation of tension for even the smallest thing to where even a game of kid's soccer can end up in a shooting.

There ya' go! Those folks have respect for others. Not just law enforcement or political figure. Here, there seems to be a strong undercurrent of 'entitlement'. I hear, all too often, people here 'demanding' respect yet they don't give respect. It's all about them.


Chuck

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Folks need to check the rap sheets on these 'innocent' people cops have killed recently.

Please enlighten us on the rap sheet of that 12-year-old kid. Please enlighten us on the rap sheet of Akai Gurley, who was killed "by accident" by a nervous cop as he used a stairwell.

Certainly, many police shootings can be justified. Unfortunately there are also many that were completely unnecessary.

I find it pretty appalling that so many people are so willing to write off the lives of all the people who are killed or injured by the police with the blanket assumption that they must have been bad guys and stupid to boot.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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Certainly, many police shootings can be justified. Unfortunately there are also many that were completely unnecessary.



What do you fucking want 100% accuracy? Me too, that's not gonna happen when humans are involved against other humans who have been taught to be thugs, and resist officers. On the other side you dont always catch the crazy cops that have been around a while, or the new cop that made a mistake on his first high risk high stress situation. Is just not gonna happen period. Its the culture, the times, the country, the nature of what your asking.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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Anvilbrother

Quote

Certainly, many police shootings can be justified. Unfortunately there are also many that were completely unnecessary.



What do you fucking want 100% accuracy? Me too, that's not gonna happen when humans are involved against other humans who have been taught to be thugs, and resist officers. On the other side you dont always catch the crazy cops that have been around a while, or the new cop that made a mistake on his first high risk high stress situation. Is just not gonna happen period. Its the culture, the times, the country, the nature of what your asking.



Your entire post is BS. We are talking about human life.

Wait until you or your family are/is involved. You will change your mind in an instance.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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quade

***Can anyone offer a rational explanation for why the EU and Japan, with combined populations exceeding that of the US, have so few cases of cops killing civilians?



Culture. Specifically in Japan, if a cop asks you to do something, you generally do it out of respect. That's been a part of their culture for thousands of years and it works very, very well.

Contrast that to the US where we openly advocate distrust of any and all government officials as well as escalation of tension for even the smallest thing to where even a game of kid's soccer can end up in a shooting.

Maybe Japan. Certainly not the UK. Yet ZERO civilians killed by cops there in the past 2 years. That's fewer than in USA this week alone.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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GeorgiaDon


I find it pretty appalling that so many people are so willing to write off the lives of all the people who are killed or injured by the police with the blanket assumption that they must have been bad guys and stupid to boot.

Don



I agree with the rest of your post but I wanted to comment on this.

Where is your concern when criminals kill other criminals or innocent people within their own communities? I can assure that that the number of people killed at the hands of others far outweighs the number of those killed at the hands of police. Or is your interest limited only when the police are involved.

P.S. Not sure of that 12 year old boy's criminal history but he sealed his fate when he reached for/pointed a weapon at those officers. Tragic.

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>What do you fucking want 100% accuracy? Me too, that's not gonna happen
>when humans are involved against other humans who have been taught to be
>thugs, and resist officers. On the other side you dont always catch the crazy cops
>that have been around a while, or the new cop that made a mistake on his first
>high risk high stress situation. Is just not gonna happen period.

Right. But we can try to make things better.

People will always die skydiving. That doesn't mean it's OK to just accept all the collisions, aircraft deaths etc because "that's just the way it is."

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GeorgiaDon

Quote

Folks need to check the rap sheets on these 'innocent' people cops have killed recently.

Please enlighten us on the rap sheet of that 12-year-old kid. Please enlighten us on the rap sheet of Akai Gurley, who was killed "by accident" by a nervous cop as he used a stairwell.

Certainly, many police shootings can be justified. Unfortunately there are also many that were completely unnecessary.

I find it pretty appalling that so many people are so willing to write off the lives of all the people who are killed or injured by the police with the blanket assumption that they must have been bad guys and stupid to boot.

Don


Google is your friend. ;)


Chuck

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http://rt.com/usa/us-germany-85-shots-022/

85 shots: Us cops use more ammo per man than Germans per year

Case closed.



christelsabine

***

Quote

Certainly, many police shootings can be justified. Unfortunately there are also many that were completely unnecessary.



What do you fucking want 100% accuracy? Me too, that's not gonna happen when humans are involved against other humans who have been taught to be thugs, and resist officers. On the other side you dont always catch the crazy cops that have been around a while, or the new cop that made a mistake on his first high risk high stress situation. Is just not gonna happen period. Its the culture, the times, the country, the nature of what your asking.



Your entire post is BS. We are talking about human life.

Wait until you or your family are/is involved. You will change your mind in an instance.

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I understand that bill, but do you think there will ever be a year with 0 skydiving deaths? Thats the type of voice these people are speaking with. Im all for 0 deaths with cops, and skydiving, but im being realistic dont you agree that anything having to do with humans will NEVER be perfect.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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Your entire post is BS. We are talking about human life.

Wait until you or your family are/is involved. You will change your mind in an instance.



How is my post BS, are you saying that something that involves humans, firearms, and criminals can be resolved into a situation where 0 human lives will be taken in a year? That is exact what I stated, and I am not saying im not for trying to get to that number but it will NEVER happen. There will not be a year where some cop somewhere looses his mind for whatever reason and kills someone. We also dont have a situation where tens of thousands are being killed, so is the 500-700 number high, just about right, or normal for the United states? Comparing our numbers to any other country does not work. The gun laws, history, lack of respect, and culture are usually too different to say look here they can do it in _____why aren't we.

Also you have no clue what I have been through, and how I have reacted in these situations already, so keep it to yourself.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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And so the US is that exceptional that nothing else in the world compares. That it can't learn or take a hint from best practices of over countries.

That's exactly the mindset that will do this country in!!!
Because the world around us is adapting at a rapid clip. Much more rapidly than the US.

They don't feel beholden to a 200-year old document (aka constitution), or a 2,000-year old fairy book (aka bible).

Anvilbrother

*** Comparing our numbers to any other country does not work. The gun laws, history, lack of respect, and culture are usually too different to say look here they can do it in _____why aren't we.

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Ok let me sum it up. Whats going on now is not right, but 0 isnt gonna happen, so what would they consider acceptable is what I am trying to say.

Also dont confuse that their "best practices" is working due to what they are doing, and not all the other circumstances.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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Anvilbrother

I understand that bill, but do you think there will ever be a year with 0 skydiving deaths? Thats the type of voice these people are speaking with. Im all for 0 deaths with cops, and skydiving, but im being realistic dont you agree that anything having to do with humans will NEVER be perfect.



So let's try and quantify the problem then. How many police shootings were there in the US in 2013? How many ended in severe injuries or death?

How many shootings were investigated by the same police department the subject officer belonged to?

You keep saying, or at least implying this isn't a problem. So, you must have some numbers?

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This was linked to us before for research into the justified vs unjustified by I believe Kallend or Billvon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States

Also there are/have been journalists researching on their own to come up with numbers using all internet articles they can find and have come up with numbers that agree with the wiki at 400-700 homicides. Thats shootings period that includes justified, and unjustified. By looking at all the ones in the wiki its clear to see the percent of unjustified is in the 10% area. The rest were actively shooting at the cops, hostages, driving a car at the cops etc. There was also a guy by the last name Smith that did research into the topic of justified vs unjustified, and came up with a percentage of like 7.5 that was unjustified out of the 400+ total shootings, and most of all those cops were already found guilty, the rest are still in court. Look it up.

I already know your answer as it is usually never good enough, and will go something like this. "The FBI doesnt even track police shootings OMG" (and I agree they should), and "Well thats your interpretation of the data from a shit site like wikinerdshittya" (which I say ok we all can have our opinion)

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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masterrig

***

Quote

Folks need to check the rap sheets on these 'innocent' people cops have killed recently.

Please enlighten us on the rap sheet of that 12-year-old kid. Please enlighten us on the rap sheet of Akai Gurley, who was killed "by accident" by a nervous cop as he used a stairwell.

Certainly, many police shootings can be justified. Unfortunately there are also many that were completely unnecessary.

I find it pretty appalling that so many people are so willing to write off the lives of all the people who are killed or injured by the police with the blanket assumption that they must have been bad guys and stupid to boot.

Don


Google is your friend. ;)


ChuckAs it is yours.

So I guess we can just put you down as being fine and dandy with kids, and people who are doing nothing wrong, who are not being arrested or even spoken to by the police, just using a stairwell, being gunned down. Nice. I suspect you treat your cattle better than you think people should be treated. I'd thought better of you somehow.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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Matthew 8:22 New King James Version (NKJV)

22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Recall, Yin and Yang? They are members of the same world view. Do you really want the police to be wusses?

Your posts reflect a strong dislike for authority. Somewhere in your past you got a burr under your saddle. IMO
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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