12 yr old kid shot by police

[normiss 724]

None.
They were "justified".

[GeorgiaDon 355]

How many times do we have to learn the lesson that guns are not toys? Is there any valid reason why toy guns, or BB guns, have to be made visually indistinguishable from real guns? An orange bit that can scratch or break off doesn't cut it. Why can't there be a requirement that toys be made of yellow/red/green material, anything but black. Something immediately visible, and that can't wear off or easily be altered, apart from intentionally painting the thing black.

This whole situation just sucks, for the kid (obviously) and for the cop. Even if the cop was told everything that was told to the 911 operator, how would that have changed things? There is someone pointing a gun at people; the "someone" might or might not be a juvenile, and the gun might or might not be real. If the cop assumes the gun is not real, and is wrong, the result could be that a bystander or the cop ends up dead. Heck of a way to find out the gun was real. 12-year-olds can look like little kids, and they can look 20, it all depends on if they hit that adolescent growth spurt a bit early or a bit late and how they are dressed. It's easy to see how a kid, or anybody, might jump the wrong way when someone screams "hand's up"; if their instinct is to throw the source of the problem (the toy gun) away or take it out to show it's just a toy then it's game over.

Sign of the times maybe, but playing with a realistic looking gun in a public place is a great recipe for disaster. Every parent must know this.

Better than giving your kid a toy gun, get them an appropriate real one and teach them how to use it responsibly.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[BillyVance 34]

*** 12-year-olds can look like little kids, and they can look 20, it all depends on if they hit that adolescent growth spurt a bit early or a bit late and how they are dressed[url]

There you go. Now the question here now is how old did the kid look like? There are some 12 year old boys that can be as tall as 5'-3" easy.

Hell, I looked like I was 7 or 8 when I was 12, but I've also seen other 12 year old boys look like older teens.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Backintothesky 0]

Frankly I think the public will only be satisfied when police officers only return fire when they are already shot multiple times.

Fucking retards the lot of them. I've been reading people calling for "warning shots" before shooting at the suspect. And then only shooting in the leg or hand!

Seriously there needs to be public announcements explaining the reality of close range armed confrontation.

Alongside that they should show videos of the final moments of many officers who hesitated too long and paid with their lives.

Warning shots! In an urban space! Fucking hell.

GeorgiaDon

How many times do we have to learn the lesson that guns are not toys? Is there any valid reason why toy guns, or BB guns, have to be made visually indistinguishable from real guns? An orange bit that can scratch or break off doesn't cut it. Why can't there be a requirement that toys be made of yellow/red/green material, anything but black. Something immediately visible, and that can't wear off or easily be altered, apart from intentionally painting the thing black.

This whole situation just sucks, for the kid (obviously) and for the cop. Even if the cop was told everything that was told to the 911 operator, how would that have changed things? There is someone pointing a gun at people; the "someone" might or might not be a juvenile, and the gun might or might not be real. If the cop assumes the gun is not real, and is wrong, the result could be that a bystander or the cop ends up dead. Heck of a way to find out the gun was real. 12-year-olds can look like little kids, and they can look 20, it all depends on if they hit that adolescent growth spurt a bit early or a bit late and how they are dressed. It's easy to see how a kid, or anybody, might jump the wrong way when someone screams "hand's up"; if their instinct is to throw the source of the problem (the toy gun) away or take it out to show it's just a toy then it's game over.

Sign of the times maybe, but playing with a realistic looking gun in a public place is a great recipe for disaster. Every parent must know this.

Better than giving your kid a toy gun, get them an appropriate real one and teach them how to use it responsibly.

Don

[Danger 0]

This is not the first time this has happened and won't be the last. Hell, something very similar took place on an episode of Hill Street Blues 30 years ago.
I have stared down a LEO's gun barrel when he saw my water gun sitting on the seat beside me during a traffic stop. I am sure if I reached for it I would be dead right now. And this would be 100% my fault.
And saying that getting wounded or killed is part of a LEO's job description is just plain wrong!

Danger

[billvon 2,739]

>And saying that getting wounded or killed is part of a LEO's job description is just
>plain wrong!

The RISK of getting wounded or killed is part of a LEO's job. This is important to point out, so that people who do not want to risk that can choose another sort of job.

[RonD1120 59]

The times have changed undeniably. When I was a kid I loved to play army, even more than cowboys and Indians. I had a replica German Lugar, Model 1911 .45, Thompson submachine gun, 1903 Springfield rifle complete with bayonet plus a dummy hand grenade. I transported them on my bicycle several miles to and from my buddy's house. Never once in my childhood did I ever think to try an bluff an adult much less a LEO with one of my toys. Why? I knew I might get shot.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,827]

RonD1120

The times have changed undeniably. When I was a kid I loved to play army, even more than cowboys and Indians. I had a replica German Lugar, Model 1911 .45, Thompson submachine gun, 1903 Springfield rifle complete with bayonet plus a dummy hand grenade. I transported them on my bicycle several miles to and from my buddy's house. Never once in my childhood did I ever think to try an bluff an adult much less a LEO with one of my toys. Why? I knew I might get shot.

Kids have played "army" and similar games involving make-believe weapons for centuries, probably millennia. "Cops and robbers" was popular when I was a kid.

Pretty sad to have a society where kids can no longer play kids' games without worrying that they'll get shot.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,739]

>Pretty sad to have a society where kids can no longer play kids' games without
>worrying that they'll get shot.

"No longer?" There have been shootings of kids with toy guns going back to 1960 that I can find.

[airdvr 201]

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/26/tamir-rice-shooting-video-released/19530745/?hootPostID=b2a039c5508ee3990f0e9e895c99a697

Sketchy video with no audio. I'm not an LEO but do you really drive up that close to someone who is supposedly armed. Seems to me they should have started from further back and worked their way in close.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[GeorgiaDon 355]

Assuming the video is in real time, there was about 1 second (literally) between when the police car stopped and when the kid was shot. I very much doubt the kid had the slightest idea of what was happening.

It was hard to watch that video, seeing this bored kid wandering around pretending to shoot at things, and knowing he was going to end up dead.

I'll stand by my earlier comments about playing with realist-looking toy guns in a public place, but I really have to question police protocols here. The way they approached the situation, it seems the outcome was all but guaranteed. Once again we see a situation sprung by surprise on someone, and they are given less than a second to understand what is going on and respond exactly the right way, or they are dead. Not much different from the old guy with a cane who was shot in his own driveway because he couldn't get out of his car fast enough for the cop. I can think of many ways this situation could have been handled differently and the kid would be alive today. If they wanted to provoke a police shooting they could hardly have contrived a better setup, pulling up right beside the kid and then opening the door so the cop has no cover and has no choice but to make a split second decision.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Seems to me they should have started from further back and worked their way in close.

The way they approached him fast, and off the road seems to me like they did to that, observed from a distance, then entered the scene in a dynamic way. This video looks bad for the cops but just like the brown situation we dont have all the information, and this video does not help anyone.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 1,827]

billvon

>Pretty sad to have a society where kids can no longer play kids' games without
>worrying that they'll get shot.

"No longer?" There have been shootings of kids with toy guns going back to 1960 that I can find.

I am older than that. So is Ron.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 232]

kallend

***>Pretty sad to have a society where kids can no longer play kids' games without
>worrying that they'll get shot.

"No longer?" There have been shootings of kids with toy guns going back to 1960 that I can find.

I am older than that. So is Ron.

We used to have realistic guns as kids in the 80's and I rememember when they started putting orange on the barrells or making them obviously toy looking. We were told why and it made sense. I wouldn't let any child I knew play with something that looked like a real gun. Guns are lethal tools, not toys.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Danger 0]

The red tip on the end of the barrel doesn't help in low light conditions, nor when viewed from the side.
My incident took place almost 30 years ago.
My MP5 water gun was sitting on the passenger seat when I was pulled over. The cop looked through my car window, saw the gun, stepped back and drew his weapon.
Lesson learned.
I now transport all weapons in trunk covered with a blanket.
Toy guns should never be used outside anymore.

Danger

[Skyrad 0]

Fair call by the cop. Sad but true.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[normiss 724]

In 1988, working for Intergraph and in Huntsville for a full month of mainframe classes.
Everyone was put in some apartments for the duration.
We all bought the brand new battery powered water guns that looked exactly like a Tec-9 with no colored tip. We would all have "wars" in the apartment complex, including "breaking into" the other guy's apartments.
In our current paranoid state, I cannot imagine the trouble we would get into were we to attempt this game today.

It's sad what a handful of crazy people have done for us.
America has become the largest police state on the planet.

[christelsabine 1]

normiss

....
It's sad what a handful of crazy people have done for us.
America has become the largest police state on the planet.

A handful??? Who?

America is no police state, it's an armed state

Wasn't there someone saying 'Only an armed society is a polite society'??

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[RonD1120 59]

I certainly advocated that sentiment, of an armed polite society, some years ago. We are not so polite anymore. Being armed has become more necessary in America now. We all believe in the "cowboy" way of life. Even the nerds play Warcraft and Call of Duty on their Xboxes. We love our guns.

Sign in a gift shop today:

I am an angry gun owner
clinging to my religion.

Molon Labe

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,827]

RonD1120

I certainly advocated that sentiment, of an armed polite society, some years ago. We are not so polite anymore. Being armed has become more necessary in America now. We all believe in the "cowboy" way of life... We love our guns.

No, not everyone does.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 201]

christelsabine

***....
It's sad what a handful of crazy people have done for us.
America has become the largest police state on the planet.

A handful??? Who?

America is no police state, it's an armed state

Wasn't there someone saying 'Only an armed society is a polite society'??



Disarming the Jews worked out well for them didn't it?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[christelsabine 1]

Yawn ....

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[RonD1120 59]

Present company excepted, I was referring to Americans not citizens.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[airdvr 201]

Skyrad

Fair call by the cop. Sad but true.

Still it seems that rolling up on the suspect was a bad call leaving no room for error. If you truly believed the suspect ot be dangerous it seems odd to get that close.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wmw999 2,318]

Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep those posts a rollin'
Don't try to understand 'em
Dropzone!

(with apologies to the Rawhide theme song)

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)